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Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expelled?

Negasta

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On Friday 18 April 2008, the long awaited (by creationists) and long dreaded (by realists) movie, Expelled: No intelligence Allowed, opened in theaters in the United States.

Expelled Website

The whole film is poorly produced lie from start to finish (even FOX News panned it). The whole objective of the movie is to blame Darwin for all the evil perpetrated by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

The producers of the film (most notably Mark Mathis) obtained interviews from a number of prominent scientist including Richard Dawkins, P.Z. Myers and Eugenie Scott, all under false pretenses. They told these academics that they were making a film called Crossroads about the conflict between evolution and intelligent design, instead of the ID propaganda film they did make. They edited the interviews to make these people look sinister and evil.

Everybody off course knows who Prof. Dawkins is, however Prof. Myers is less well known. He is a prominent and prolific atheist and evolutionist blogger, that writes the blog Pharyngula.

In the weeks before the official opening of the film, there were free preview screenings of the film in various cities, the tickets of which could be obtained for free by booking online at the movie's website. These shows included one in Minneapolis on March 20 that Prof. Myers attended after doing the requisite online booking for himself and several guests.

When Prof. Myers attempted to enter the theater where the film was being shown, he was spotted by Mark Mathis and asked to leave the theater because he would be critical of the film. Unfortunately for the moron Mathis, he let through all of Prof. Meyers' guests, including....

wait for it...

...Richard Dawkins!!!

The obvious and delicious irony is of course that Prof. Myers was expelled from a screening of a film called Expelled, that is about academics supposedly being persecuted for holding dissenting views, for being an academic that holds a dissenting view. This incident and the Christian/ID response to it makes it clear as day that the producers of this film and the entire ID movement in general are liars and hypocrites. They have no evidence of their own, so they try to portray evolution as the cause of all genocides of the 20th century and then they try to silence and discredit those that call them on their lies.

Mathis for instance tried to tell people that Myers and Dawkins gate crashed the screening and that you and to be invited by the producers to attend. Once this lie was exposed, the denials and fabrications came thick and fast from all corners of the ID movement, but they were all exposed and have since fallen mostly silent, probably to prevent any further embarrassment.

I tried to find Mark Mathis' take on the events, but I could not locate it. Here is the Christianity Today report on the incident:

Dawkins Crashes 'Expelled' Party by Mark Moring

It seems that Mr. Moring has some integrity however, because he retracted many of the slanderous allegations against Proff. Myers and Dawkins when he got the correct facts. If you want to read more mind numbing propaganda by the film's producers, just go to the news section of the film's website.

It makes me sad (and bloody terrified) that so many people in the most powerful nation on Earth actually fall for this nonsense.

Prof. Myers made this blog entry from the Apple Store in The Mall of America while the film was being shown:

EXPELLED! by P.Z. Myers

Prof. Dawkins recounted the events and stated his views of them on his website:

Lying for Jesus by Richard Dawkins

Here is a video taken later on the evening of 20 March 2008 where Dawkins and Myers discussed the evening's events:

Discussion on PZ Myers being expelled from Expelled

Here is the NY Times article on the incident (to add some objectivity):

No Admission for Evolutionary Biologist at Creationist Film by Cornelia Dean

There are hundreds of other articles and blog entries all over the internet on this topic that you can read for further information. The creationists made their stupidity, incompetence and lack of ethics abundantly clear during this incident and its aftermath. I really cannot understand that these people and their allies can wield so much power in a modern 1st world nation. In a sane wold, these people would have been laughed of the stage the moment they started to speak and ridiculed for their moronic views. Hopefully America will soon come out of this nadir of religiously inspired stupidity.

What are your views on the incident?

ETA: Prof. Dawkins wrote a letter to "a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda", an actual person who was taken in by the lies in Expelled and wrote a rather nasty letter the Michael Shermer. He also put it online as a form letter to any person fooled by the film (after changing the name).

Open Letter to a victim of Ben Stein's lying propaganda by Richard Dawkins
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

Yeah, I was disappointed to see Ben Stein involved in that. My question is when or how is the movie going to be released to the general public? I gather from the ads I've seen that it's not going to theaters, so maybe DVD and cable? If so, when?

I'd like to think this flick is ID's "best shot", and now that they've taken it, perhaps the scientific community can debunk it to the point that people will move on to something else.
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

>>>My question is when or how is the movie going to be released to the general public?

The movie grossed $3.1 million in general release this weekend, which seems to indicate it IS in general release...and that people are watching.

Lex
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

meh....a huge marketing campaign and it didn't do much in it's opening weekend. Intelligent design is the last gasp of creationists.. it's like them admitting that evolution is real but God did it anyway.

kinda lame, really.. maybe the people who'd be interested in seeing a movie like that were busy at the tractor pull this weekend....
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

lost any and all respect for Ben Stein. How much did they pay him? What was he thinking?
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

lost any and all respect for Ben Stein. How much did they pay him? What was he thinking?
Ben Stein really went over the line on this one,and I lost whatever respect I had for him.I didn't think he took himself this seriously,or could be so seriously misguided and ignorant.Don't think much of in your face know it all atheists like Dawkins,but Ben Stein really gave them ammunition with his own biased perspective.Science and religion(spirituality at least)are two different things.Science looks to the mechanics of how things work,religion to the meaning of existence.When either imposes themselves on the other with a sense of authority,they go outside their proper bounds and don't have credibility.
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

The Reuter's article here is scathing about Ben Stein.

No "Intelligence" evident in Stein's documentary.

http://www.reuters.com/article/reviewsNews/idUSN2036189120080421

By Frank Scheck

NEW YORK (Hollywood Reporter) - Managing to make the films of Michael Moore and Morgan Spurlock look like dry, scholarly treatises by comparison, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" more than lives up to its subtitle.

Notice it's co-written by him, and so it's 'his' documentary.
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

Didn't Ben Stein write Richard Nixon's resignation speech?

Lex
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

Ben Stein was a hack for Richard Nixon. I dont expect any integrity from him.
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

>>>meh....a huge marketing campaign and it didn't do much in it's opening weekend. Intelligent design is the last gasp of creationists.. it's like them admitting that evolution is real but God did it anyway. kinda lame, really.. maybe the people who'd be interested in seeing a movie like that were busy at the tractor pull this weekend....

I don't know about all that. The only documentaries to do well in the last...hell, twenty years, actually, have all been liberal-based. Documentary's target audiences are most often college students, intellectuals, and patrons of "art theaters" and the like. Most of those (as seen by the posts above) would have no interest in seeing this movie. The fact that it pulled in $3.1 million is like Air America pulling in a 4 share nationwide - doing respectable business in enemy territory, if you will.

Lex
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

I caught the Grandmother watching this on TV yesterday afternoon... it must have been a preview or something, it was appearing on the televangelist channel. I was in the kitchen cooking, and I heard Ben Stein's voice floating through the house, and so my curiosity was piqued. I was frankly appalled at the McCarthyist tone of the thing, and walked back to the kitchen in disgust.

I was not too surprised by Ben Stein's involvement... he lost my respect a long time ago by becoming involved in the neocon movement.

What I consider unfortunate is that they took what was really an interesting premise (the scientific community's worship of Darwin and the pervasion of scientifically unsound atheist dogma) and turned it into a bit of propaganda for what is a purely spiritual question (Intelligent Design is an apologium between science and faith, not a scientific principle).
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

Short of Mel Gibson doing another church tour, I don't think it'll fly.

That is exactly how they marketed this film. They secretly screened it to masses of ministers, they did their best to keep media away, but Roger Moore got through:

He was showing the movie to what he and the producers hoped would be a friendly, receptive audience of conservative Christian ministers at a conference at the Northland mega-church next to the dog track up in Longwood. They're marketing this movie, which they had said, earlier, they'd open in Feb. (now April) the same way other studios pitched The Passion of the Christ and The Chronicles of Narnia, said Paul Lauer of Motive Entertainment, who introduced Stein.

In other words, a stealth campaign, out of the public eye, preaching to the choir to get the word out about the movie without anyone who isn't a true believer passing a discouraging judgment on it. Friendly words in the press only.

They postered the Orlando Sentinel with email invitations, then tried to withdraw the one they sent to me. No dice. They also passed out non-disclosure "statement of confidentiality" agreements for people to sign. I didn't.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2008/02/is-ben-stein-th.html
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

...the scientific community's worship of Darwin and the pervasion of scientifically unsound atheist dogma...

I have yet to meet or read or hear of a single scientist that "worships Darwin". Also what is this scientifically unsound Atheist dogma you talk of?
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

1) I hate agreeing with Negasta on anything, but Ben Stein definitely screwed up on this one. I've heard nothing bit bad on this film, even to the point that his interviews were of the ask-one question-answer-another sort (Stein would ask one question, but edit in another afterwards). At the same time, I think Dawkins could have actually done more damage by just letting the film alone.

2) $3.1M for a documentary is hardly signs of flopping. However, I'm obviously hoping that this film doesn't become a rallying point...It could become the ID version of Dawkins.

3)
I have yet to meet or read or hear of a single scientist that "worships Darwin". Also what is this scientifically unsound Atheist dogma you talk of?

Poor Negasta: He starts off making a perfectly good point, and then overplays it. The second remains to be seen; I'm basically pulling for the atheists having auto-rectal lobotomies and bothering to believe that people should be allowed to have their own beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't dangerous (which even fundamentalist atheism has shown that it can be). As for the second, Darwin-worship is a pretty well defined phenomenon, as too many scientists see it as when science and faith parted ways, rather than when they worked together. I figured any proper God-hating atheist would have been aware of it.

Re-iterating: Yeah, this movie is definitely a step too far. It's going to have a chilling effect on the entire ID community, making any kind of rebuttal virtually impossible as they can't trust the interviewer now.

RG
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

OK so ben stein wasn't respectable before he got involved with the movie. shoulda noticed sooner...
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

Poor Negasta: He starts off making a perfectly good point, and then overplays it. The second remains to be seen; I'm basically pulling for the atheists having auto-rectal lobotomies and bothering to believe that people should be allowed to have their own beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't dangerous (which even fundamentalist atheism has shown that it can be). As for the second, Darwin-worship is a pretty well defined phenomenon, as too many scientists see it as when science and faith parted ways, rather than when they worked together. I figured any proper God-hating atheist would have been aware of it.
RG

... so where are the examples of "scientifically unsound atheist dogma"? and what about that darwin worshipping, you certainly gave a super argument of that...

I'm all for people having their own beliefs, but find it increasingly hard to just stand by and not point out idiocy or logical fallacy out of respect for religion. that would never get us anywhere, now would it?
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

^RG is the typical faith-head. He has no substantiating evidence for his statements so he calls for atheists to have "auto-rectal lobotomies" because they won't bow down and fellate Jesus. Every time I have asked him to give supporting evidence for his claims, he gets still more insulting and starts making more unrelated and unsubstantiated claims, until the thread is totally off course and pointless.

...believe that people should be allowed to have their own beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't dangerous (which even fundamentalist atheism has shown that it can be).

If you read any of the books of the big atheist authors, you will notice that they say exactly the above. Also please give me an example of the fundamentalist atheism you talk off. I'm guessing you will dredge up Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot again. In that case I will ignore it, because I have (with the help of greater men than myself) debunked that notion every time you brought it up.

As for the second, Darwin-worship is a pretty well defined phenomenon, as too many scientists see it as when science and faith parted ways, rather than when they worked together. I figured any proper God-hating atheist would have been aware of it.

I have met and read many scientists and I say once more that I have never seen any of them worshiping Darwin. Darwin certainly was a great man, you cannot call a man who so fundamentally changed the way we view the world anything else, but unlike the God/Jesus you worship that is supposedly infallible, scientists admit that Darwin was a flawed man and many of his ideas on evolution were wrong and have since been replaced with better ones (something religion doesn't do), such as the gene centric view of evolution.

Science and faith go together like sunlight and vampires, wherever science (sunlight) takes root, faith (vampires) diminishes. In ages past when the Church had all the power it suppressed most scientific inquiry and now that it has lost power it tries to influence those in power to make laws that will allow its debunked nonsense to be taught to innocent schoolchildren.

Also, true atheists do not hate God, because we do not believe he/she/it exists. To us hating God is like hating fairies, i.e. totally pointless.
 
Re: Has anyone heard of latest ID propaganda Expel

I have yet to meet or read or hear of a single scientist that "worships Darwin".
I rather overstated myself...certainly there is no Church of Darwin, one does not sing hymns about the Crew of the Beagle nor use his name in oaths of office. I have absolutely nothing against Darwin, by any means: he's right up there with Newton and Freud, one of the fathers of rational scientific thought.

What I dislike in the scientific community (or rather that portion of the community that makes its way into education and mainstream news, I admit a rather skewed portion) is a tendency to sanctify theories as if they were incontrovertible facts. As you pointed out in a later post, many of Darwin's statements turned out to be not quite correct. His work was the necessary first step, but there is a tendency to take the first step for the final word, which I distrust. Until something is proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, it should be prefaced with "our best evidence so far indicates..."

Not a lot of scientists start off their statements that way. They have taken the foundations for granted and moved forward to base further theories on what is still technically unproven. One must, of course, do so in order to move forward at all, and it is in this forward motion that so many foundational theories are corrected. But there is not a culture of "so far as we know" afoot, certainly not in the scientific community to which I have been exposed. Things are presented as facts which are still quite debatable, particularly to people who don't know any better, and that is not good.

Also what is this scientifically unsound Atheist dogma you talk of?
Atheism is a belief system, the same as Christianity or Buddhism or Islam or what-have-you. The statement "there is no God" is, almost by definition, a dogma. As such, it does not have any place in Science. You cannot prove that God exists, and you cannot prove that God does not exist: it therefore must be left out of the argument altogether.

Do not confuse Faith with Religion: they are separate if overlapping concepts. I personally believe that God exists; you personally believe that God does not exist: nowhere between those two faiths can a fact be discerned. Religion is a fact, because it exists within demonstrable and predictable human-behavior boundaries (that is, politics); but whether or not the Catholic Church quashes or encourages scientific research has absolutely nothing to do with Faith... it's pure politics, the drive for ascendancy of one man or group over another.

And do not think that Faith and Science are mutually exclusive. They are simply completely different things. It is unfortunate that so many people are trying right now (for essentially political reasons) to inflict their faith (or lack of faith) on others by mixing it up with science; but until the average person comes to understand that Faith and Science are completely different approaches to understanding reality, we are going to have these kinds of problems.

I think Intelligent Design is a good way for people of religion-centered faith to accept scientific principles... but it is not science itself. It saddens me that this simple mechanism for allowing people to believe in their faith as well as accept science is being used as a political bludgeon.

Until we can get the politics, faith, and science properly separated, we'll be wallowing around in darkness.

That's what I believe, anyway.
 
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