Have you ever hated both Presidential Candidates to the point where you just refuse to vote????

[frankfrank]

Well, of course he knows the elections will be rigged. He shouldn't be Afraid at all. The secret and proprietary software in the voting machines usually favors the Republican candidate, let alone when the counting is administered by some Republican outfit in eastern Tennessee. [Ohio in 2004]

 

[xbuzzerx]

Sorry this is how I feel about everyone "in the middle." I also think a lot of people "in the middle" cling to every bit of mud and knead it, roll it out, shape it and bake a cake with it to maintain a pretense of false equivalencies between Democrats and Republicans as an excuse to not admit the obvious or make the obviously correct decision for the greater good.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, of course he knows the elections will be rigged. He shouldn't be Afraid at all. The secret and proprietary software in the voting machines usually favors the Republican candidate, let alone when the counting is administered by some Republican outfit in eastern Tennessee. [Ohio in 2004]

He's saying this because after attacking Black people, Gay people. Women, Latinos, shitting on Native Americans, probably something about Asians as well somewhere I've missed, the Pope, then attacking the mothers of fucking dead war heroes, FIREMEN (WHO attacks FIREMEN?) - he's planning a run at gurgling babies and fluffy kittens and wants a fallback in case that doesn't go well.

 

[TX-Beau]

Sorry this is how I feel about everyone "in the middle." I also think a lot of people "in the middle" cling to every bit of mud and knead it, roll it out, shape it and bake a cake with it to maintain a pretense of false equivalencies between Democrats and Republicans as an excuse to not admit the obvious or make the obviously correct decision for the greater good.

This is about the racism and bigotry the right has courted and used to inflame the ignorant since Nixon. All Trump has done is ditch the fig leaf.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Day-hem Son! Why don't you just come out and share how you really feel!

The Houston Chronicle, best known for supporting Republican POTUS candidates, endorsed Clinton?

Why?

'Trump is a threat to our Republic...'

Nuff said.

 

[frankfrank]

Today he's declaring war on Republican Senate candidates such as Kelly Ayotte in NH, and Paul Ryan in the House!! (Oops I thought I was posting in the thread about Trump fucking things up.)

 

[evanrick]

Day-hem Son! Why don't you just come out and share how you really feel!

The Houston Chronicle, best known for supporting Republican POTUS candidates, endorsed Clinton?

Why?

'Trump is a threat to our Republic...'

Nuff said.

Hes a threat to the republican establishment is what they wont admit to saying. Anytime someone has the chance to usurp a national party, walls are put in place to stop it. Just ask Bernie.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Hillary is a phony. Not saying that Trump is an alternative.

 

[frankfrank]

Regarding the thread title, I don't like either candidate at all.

Hillary Clinton will definitely be the most vile candidate I've ever voted for. Or, I mean will vote for (it's not happened yet, but it will).

And she outdistances Tronald Dump by so many universes of magnitude, that I am more motivated to vote than I ever have been in my lifetime.

If this was Germany and 1932, and I knew as much about Hitler as I think the public there knew at the time and Drumpf was running against him, I would have voted for Hitler as the less scary of the two.

HUMAN LIFE is existentially threatened under Führer Drumpf.

 

[TX-Beau]

I personally am pretty much tired of the bullshit. Hillary is not vile, she's not a crook. she's not corrupt or venal or power mad.

She's a person who has spent her life in public service, and there is no one in here or even in the vast majority of us who have tried so hard or done so much.

 

[Kabluey]

I personally am pretty much tired of the bullshit. Hillary is not vile, she's not a crook. she's not corrupt or venal or power mad.

She's a person who has spent her life in public service, and there is no one in here or even in the vast majority of us who have tried so hard or done so much.

You see similar claims made about other female leaders around the world within their own countries. Pretty toxic.

 

[kallipolis]

I couldn't resist posting this article and its several pictures, for entertainment purposes.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...llionaire-businessman-make-silver-screen.html

 

[xbuzzerx]

I personally am pretty much tired of the bullshit. Hillary is not vile, she's not a crook. she's not corrupt or venal or power mad.

She's a person who has spent her life in public service, and there is no one in here or even in the vast majority of us who have tried so hard or done so much.

I do not have an "I am forcing myself to do it, kicking and screaming" hate for her. I've always had a consistent view about her, since her primary against Obama and even before that. I don't trust her. She has a disturbingly consistent history of being on the wrong side of issues, until it was popular, safe and vetted to switch to the right side. Because of this, I don't trust her to always do the right thing in any situation, or to have the right intention. I expect her to do the safe, the savvy, the calculated thing. She's done this her whole career. It's either this or she honestly didn't know better at all the times she voted the wrong way, in which case I have better judgment than her and I am only a progressive voter, not a Democratic candidate... so there's little excuse.

So, I don't "hate" her, but I don't think she's a leader in the idealist or visionary sense. I think she just knows the mechanics of the game, and that's it. I never expect her to shock us all with a progressive idea that goes against the current grain, and I don't expect her to do the right thing instead of the expedient thing.

We can question Obama's efficacy for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the dedicated and coordinated effort to ensure he got as little done as humanly possible by the whole machinery of the right. But I never personally had strong misgivings about his actual intentions or what he would try to do in a given set of circumstances. With Hillary, I just wouldn't expect her to make an unpopular decision or move, ever, even if it was the right thing to do.

She's universes better than Trump, because "will ride on the safe wave of sane majority public opinion" is way better than "I'm fucking evil and I don't care who agrees with me, I'm going to do evil anyway." But I'm not excited, and never was, about her as a candidate, even before she was a candidate but everyone knew she intended to be.

 

[sixthson]

It's a bizarre year. You have two candidates, neither of which would know the truth if it slapped them in the face. Both have long histories of low character and integrity. Both have skeletons in their closets when it comes to finances and personal relationships and both would stop at nothing to win. Neither cares about being public servants, just about furthering their power hungry ambitions.
For them, this election is not about what's best for the country, it's all about THEM.

We've had bad presidents before and still the Republic stands. It probably will this time, too.

 

[Vitamin]

What is next is that until November you will still keep stating and re-stating that all homos only vote for Hillary because of her pussy.

And the homos on this site will just keep telling you how stupid this broad brush claim really is.

I assume he'll be driving his point about Hillary and gays home until November 2022.

 

[eastofeden]

I do not have an "I am forcing myself to do it, kicking and screaming" hate for her. I've always had a consistent view about her, since her primary against Obama and even before that. I don't trust her. She has a disturbingly consistent history of being on the wrong side of issues, until it was popular, safe and vetted to switch to the right side. Because of this, I don't trust her to always do the right thing in any situation, or to have the right intention. I expect her to do the safe, the savvy, the calculated thing. She's done this her whole career. It's either this or she honestly didn't know better at all the times she voted the wrong way, in which case I have better judgment than her and I am only a progressive voter, not a Democratic candidate... so there's little excuse.

So, I don't "hate" her, but I don't think she's a leader in the idealist or visionary sense. I think she just knows the mechanics of the game, and that's it. I never expect her to shock us all with a progressive idea that goes against the current grain, and I don't expect her to do the right thing instead of the expedient thing.

We can question Obama's efficacy for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the dedicated and coordinated effort to ensure he got as little done as humanly possible by the whole machinery of the right. But I never personally had strong misgivings about his actual intentions or what he would try to do in a given set of circumstances. With Hillary, I just wouldn't expect her to make an unpopular decision or move, ever, even if it was the right thing to do.

She's universes better than Trump, because "will ride on the safe wave of sane majority public opinion" is way better than "I'm fucking evil and I don't care who agrees with me, I'm going to do evil anyway." But I'm not excited, and never was, about her as a candidate, even before she was a candidate but everyone knew she intended to be.

When I think of women I love in politics...Hillary doesn't really come to mind. Barbara Boxer...Jackie Speier...Ann Richards....Bella Abzug...DO come to mind....

I never bought into the evil Clinton thing though. My impression of them..they are slick politicians who say what they need to say and do what they need to do to win. Are they bought and paid for?...of course they are...but so are 99% of their political rivals who point fingers and pretend they are above it all. Unless you are ruling the Land of Oz and your name is Glinda and your constituents are munchkins..you have to get dirty in American Politics and play by the rules that already exist.....and the Clintons are excellent at figuring out what those rules are.

The problem for me initially with Bernie who I would have seriously considered was being lectured by people who had never shown up before when I showed up every time..and then telling me who I was and what I thought didn't help either. Duh...I was idealistic myself...still am...but I have to trade it in for the realistic choice....every time...because the big picture matters....and It moved me closer to Clinton who I trusted to be who she has always been versus the idealist who had no way of actually attaining the goals he set forth and since this country is closer to center it would alienate even more people at this time int he way it was presented because basically you are telling people who make less money you are going to raise their taxes so people can get free shit.

Blue states turning red will not help us..... and letting the minority in this country steal another branch of government is not my idea of a good time. They already hijacked the House with Gerrymandering..using the same ploy they used against Hillary Clinton state by state except it was Nancy Pelosi who was the Boogie Woman...

So going with the whole Boogie Woman narrative is not going to work for me and forced me to get behind her even though truthfully I had made up my mind when she was SOS to vote for her if she ran because I thought she was a solid statesman....but not because she was a women...or had a vagina...or because I didn't see who she was. I do see...and she is exactly what I expect of a politician playing a game that was put into motion years before she was even born. I am not going to demonize her for playing it well. I would rather appreciate it because as the 11th most liberal senator serving during her four years in the Senate..she definitely has my best interests at heart as a liberal even if we don't agree on everything...and she has the most chance of moving an agenda that favors the things I believe in forward..successfully.....including the Supreme Court which is the bottom line...

I am glad Bernie moved her more to the left and she needed to do that ...but if she completely embraced everything he stood for...she would lose the center. There is a balance that must be achieved and she has to walk the tightrope....

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I do not have an "I am forcing myself to do it, kicking and screaming" hate for her. I've always had a consistent view about her, since her primary against Obama and even before that. I don't trust her. She has a disturbingly consistent history of being on the wrong side of issues, until it was popular, safe and vetted to switch to the right side. Because of this, I don't trust her to always do the right thing in any situation, or to have the right intention. I expect her to do the safe, the savvy, the calculated thing. She's done this her whole career. It's either this or she honestly didn't know better at all the times she voted the wrong way, in which case I have better judgment than her and I am only a progressive voter, not a Democratic candidate... so there's little excuse.

So, I don't "hate" her, but I don't think she's a leader in the idealist or visionary sense. I think she just knows the mechanics of the game, and that's it. I never expect her to shock us all with a progressive idea that goes against the current grain, and I don't expect her to do the right thing instead of the expedient thing.

We can question Obama's efficacy for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the dedicated and coordinated effort to ensure he got as little done as humanly possible by the whole machinery of the right. But I never personally had strong misgivings about his actual intentions or what he would try to do in a given set of circumstances. With Hillary, I just wouldn't expect her to make an unpopular decision or move, ever, even if it was the right thing to do.

She's universes better than Trump, because "will ride on the safe wave of sane majority public opinion" is way better than "I'm fucking evil and I don't care who agrees with me, I'm going to do evil anyway." But I'm not excited, and never was, about her as a candidate, even before she was a candidate but everyone knew she intended to be.

Great post.

 

[TX-Beau]

I do not have an "I am forcing myself to do it, kicking and screaming" hate for her. I've always had a consistent view about her, since her primary against Obama and even before that. I don't trust her. She has a disturbingly consistent history of being on the wrong side of issues, until it was popular, safe and vetted to switch to the right side. Because of this, I don't trust her to always do the right thing in any situation, or to have the right intention. I expect her to do the safe, the savvy, the calculated thing. She's done this her whole career. It's either this or she honestly didn't know better at all the times she voted the wrong way, in which case I have better judgment than her and I am only a progressive voter, not a Democratic candidate... so there's little excuse.

So, I don't "hate" her, but I don't think she's a leader in the idealist or visionary sense. I think she just knows the mechanics of the game, and that's it. I never expect her to shock us all with a progressive idea that goes against the current grain, and I don't expect her to do the right thing instead of the expedient thing.

We can question Obama's efficacy for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being the dedicated and coordinated effort to ensure he got as little done as humanly possible by the whole machinery of the right. But I never personally had strong misgivings about his actual intentions or what he would try to do in a given set of circumstances. With Hillary, I just wouldn't expect her to make an unpopular decision or move, ever, even if it was the right thing to do.

She's universes better than Trump, because "will ride on the safe wave of sane majority public opinion" is way better than "I'm fucking evil and I don't care who agrees with me, I'm going to do evil anyway." But I'm not excited, and never was, about her as a candidate, even before she was a candidate but everyone knew she intended to be.

I just don't see her like that. I think she ISN'T a "slick" politician at all, and trying to be one has caused the great majority of her ACTUAL (not the lies tossed at her) flaws. If she stuck to being the nerdy policy wonk we all know she is, and stopped trying to be Bill, I think she'd be better off, when she sticks to her strengths, is when she does well, when she tries to "play politics' is when she flubs it.

 

[xbuzzerx]

When I think of women I love in politics...Hillary doesn't really come to mind. Barbara Boxer...Jackie Speier...Ann Richards....Bella Abzug...DO come to mind....

I never bought into the evil Clinton thing though. My impression of them..they are slick politicians who say what they need to say and do what they need to do to win. Are they bought and paid for?...of course they are...but so are 99% of their political rivals who point fingers and pretend they are above it all. Unless you are ruling the Land of Oz and your name is Glinda and your constituents are munchkins..you have to get dirty in American Politics and play by the rules that already exist.....and the Clintons are excellent at figuring out what those rules are.

The problem for me initially with Bernie who I would have seriously considered was being lectured by people who had never shown up before when I showed up every time..and then telling me who I was and what I thought didn't help either. Duh...I was idealistic myself...still am...but I have to trade it in for the realistic choice....every time...because the big picture matters....and It moved me closer to Clinton who I trusted to be who she has always been versus the idealist who had no way of actually attaining the goals he set forth and since this country is closer to center it would alienate even more people at this time int he way it was presented because basically you are telling people who make less money you are going to raise their taxes so people can get free shit.

Blue states turning red will not help us..... and letting the minority in this country steal another branch of government is not my idea of a good time. They already hijacked the House with Gerrymandering..using the same ploy they used against Hillary Clinton state by state except it was Nancy Pelosi who was the Boogie Woman...

So going with the whole Boogie Woman narrative is not going to work for me and forced me to get behind her even though truthfully I had made up my mind when she was SOS to vote for her if she ran because I thought she was a solid statesman....but not because she was a women...or had a vagina...or because I didn't see who she was. I do see...and she is exactly what I expect of a politician playing a game that was put into motion years before she was even born. I am not going to demonize her for playing it well. I would rather appreciate it because as the 11th most liberal senator serving during her four years in the Senate..she definitely has my best interests at heart as a liberal even if we don't agree on everything...and she has the most chance of moving an agenda that favors the things I believe in forward..successfully.....including the Supreme Court which is the bottom line...

I am glad Bernie moved her more to the left and she needed to do that ...but if she completely embraced everything he stood for...she would lose the center. There is a balance that must be achieved and she has to walk the tightrope....

The Clintons are master politicians - no one disputes. I would just disagree that this suddenly became a "virtue" all of a sudden. Certainly it's a virtue over rank incompetence and being utterly unqualified as Trump undeniably is.

That some Bernie supporters were crazy zealots-- yup, but I wasn't one so I've never really answered for them.

I do want to address this though. The whole "misogyny" thing. Anyone who has a major problem with her because she's a woman is likely a Trump voter. I could have given anyone at any time the same explanation I just gave in this thread for why I wasn't excited for her, but instead my feed filled up with indictments of those who didn't support Hillary as being misogynists suffering from male privilege or whatever else. Given that the person I'd most want to be President of the country would be Elizabeth Warren, you can imagine the degree to which those kind of grasping accusations were resented. I'd say the most common thing I ever saw anyone discussing was her ties to big money and corporations. Her gender wasn't on the radar, except in the messaging coming out of her camp.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I just don't see her like that. I think she ISN'T a "slick" politician at all, and trying to be one has caused the great majority of her ACTUAL (not the lies tossed at her) flaws. If she stuck to being the nerdy policy wonk we all know she is, and stopped trying to be Bill, I think she'd be better off, when she sticks to her strengths, is when she does well, when she tries to "play politics' is when she flubs it.

Well take my comments within the context that I think pretty much the worst Democrats are better by a factor of 5 or 10 than the best Republicans. I don't hate her or even think she's a bad person or has "bad values" or anything. I just think she's always been a very big name who could have had a big impact on important votes, and so often I was disappointed seeing the way having to be led by some no-name while Hillary made a safe status quo vote. The Iraq War is one example, but it's not the only one. There's no equivalency in my mind between her and a Republican. I just think she will safely push along the edges of progress... not lead us into it.

She's always just on the edge of politely late to the big parties. I think Obama did things like hop on DOMA and Gitmo because it was the right thing to do. There was no overwhelming voter outcry for him to do either. He was attacked for both. I wish I felt like Hillary would be "that kind of President." If you do, then I'll just envy you and hope you're right. It's just not what I feel like I should logically expect from what I've seen of her over the past years.