Having difficulties since coming out...

[drunkenmoron]

I'm finding it impossible to feel at ease with people knowing I'm gay... I keep getting this nasty feeling in the pit of my stomach that something bad's gonna happen.

I've been seeing this guy from my uni for the past couple of days, we've been going out and getting really drunk in clubs, then I can't keep my hands off him but I feel really uneasy about people seeing. I hate that I can't just hug and kiss him like every straight couple out there, we have to go back to my place just to do that. The people who have seen us doing this stuff in public haven't said anything, but I'm feeling really guilty about it and paranoid that someone who's seen is gonna do me over or kick up a fuss about it.

I just thought I'd ask you guys how you generally deal with this kind of thing and whether you've ended up in a bad situation if you slip up like I have been? I kinda feel sick about the whole thing and disgusted with myself for doing anything with this guy now

 

[Rolyo85]

I've never been in that situation, but I live in a liberal college town.

As to how you can deal with it - just take a risk one, two, five times. And keep taking the risk until it doesn't feel like risk anymore. You'll be surprised how few people will care.

Last semester this guy asked me out. We went on a few dates, and then we went to a party. By then we were pretty handsy on each other. I never really cared about people seeing, since I am not ashamed of who I am and what I like, and I strongly believe we shouldn't have to hide. Plus, the more we act like we have secrets and shames, the more people are inclined to see those things as something to be hidden and ashamed of.

Point being, we were all over each other at that party. In front of a LOT of people. And you know how they responded? By giving us thumbs up and telling us how cute we were together.

Act like you own the place and everyone in it. You'll be surprised at how many people will actually buy it.

 

[Seasoned]

In big enough towns there are straight, gay and gay friendly places. Most locales have places or parts of town that can be unsafe for anyone who doesn't know their way around. Unchecked fear leads to immobility so you want to avoid that. Recklessness can lead to consequences no one desires. Being authentic is the key to most of life's situations.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Drunkenmoron,

Welcome back to the forum and great to hear you have found a nice guy. I hope all is going well between you and him.

I can imagine myself very well that you feel yourself uncomfortable when kissing and hugging with him in public. Especially because you are not yet out for a very long period. Please be aware that there are alot of straight couples who also don't like extensive kissing/hugging behaviour in public. Some straight couples are fond of this, others hardly show this behaviour when in public.

What's the opinion of your guy? Does he feels a strong need for kissing and tight hugging and so on when together with you in such kind of circumstances? Do you talk with him about your issue?

Finally, you might also show your affection towards him by touching through alot of -very- subtle items, like touching the knee, stroking the knee or upperleg (and alot of other variations). Stroking hands! Some of these touchings can be open, but also no problem at all to do this with your feet (or covered by a table). And you might see this as some sort of exercise as well, just to get a bit used to touch a guy in this kind of situations.

Bottomline: no fixed rules how partners touch each other in this kind of circumstances, people are different, please discuss this with your mate, and you might start with some very subtle ways of touching each other, and as a sort of exercise.

Ofcourse, going to a gay bar (with alot of other gay couples), or going to venues with alot of very gay friendly people is another way (and a very nice and relaxed way) to get used that its not weird for 2 guys to kiss and hug each other in public.

Best wishes & feel free to react.

 

[drunkenmoron]

Thanks for your replies,

Rolyo85, I'm in a pretty liberal place too I guess because the places I go out to are generally 95% student occupied, but then there's another side because it's a huge marine base and also a sort of 'backwards' corner of the country.

I like that story though, sounds like you were with a really decent bunch of people. The first night I went out with the guy I met a pal who I'm out to but there were also a couple who didn't know, introduced my date to everyone and a few of them even started being a lot more friendly towards me and stuff, it's more the groups of strangers I worry about

Seasoned, I know there's a gay club and bar here but those aren't really my thing... but then I've had no trouble as yet in these other places, it's just that I've never seen two guys kissing or touching each other when I'm out so I wasn't sure whether it was even something gay guys do, if there was a reason I never see it.

Ganoderma, good to hear from you again

Yeah he's a good guy but I'm sort of in a dilemma where I met him and didn't really fancy him but thought he was worth a shot to go for a night out with, then we ended up back at my place that night. I enjoyed it and everything but now I feel like I only really like him because of the sexual stuff, which is obviously all new ground but I don't really wanna lead him into thinking there's something more... though I think I may already have done so, but yeah even though he's in the closet he seemed more than happy to be like this in public after a few drinks

The gay bar thing could still be on the cards I guess, obviously it'd be nice to feel like I've got the freedom to not have to worry about it but the sort of 'gay scene' doesn't really appeal to me.

It's also an issue of feeling kind of ashamed and 'dirty' after spending the night with him... but then I end up wanting him to come back for another round. It's confusing whether I'm even really enjoying it because of the guilt that follows, it's even started making me question whether I'm really gay or whether it was just a forbidden fruit kind of thing

 

[Rolyo85]

Every time I hear a newly out guy isn't "into the gay scene", I hear internalized homophobia. There isn't ONE gay scene, and it doesn't have only one side. Don't stereotype, and go check it out. The sleaze is there, but honestly, the sleaze is everywhere anyway. You just ignore it in mixed bars cause it doesn't concern you.

Same with the feeling dirty and ashamed. Seriously? Dirty? Ashamed? For having sex?

 

[drunkenmoron]

I guess you could be right about that, I'm not entirely sure what internalized homophobia means though? I know I shouldn't really feel like this but I don't know whether it's the guy I'm with or just kinda the messy side of things or what.

My counsellor actually said something about internalized homophobia a few weeks back but I shrugged it off because I know I like guys, it's just that as soon as there's any outward signs that they might be gay I get put off

 

[Rolyo85]

That's what internalized homophobia is. You know you're gay, and you've accepted that, but you haven't accepted that BEING gay is ok, that there is nothing wrong with it, nothing to be ashamed of. To you "the gay" is something less than "the straight", and so you shy away from outward signs of it, and anything that would put you in the "gay" category. Those are not conscious thoughts and decisions on your part, that's how internalized homophobia works. You have to realize this exists in you, and counter it consciously by challenging those stereotypes.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi DM,

Thanks for your nice and extensive reply. Its great to read that you are out right now, and that you just make a visit to one of the student bars over there together with your gay friend, and in a way that everyone over there will be aware that DM is gay (and is having some sort of close gay friend). I am really very happy that you have set these steps.

Just take your time, and do the things you feel comfortable with. It is indeed just a matter of time to get used to be also 'out and proud'. Well, and how many of your male fellow-students will meet a sweet female student, and will have sex with her during the night? So why shouldn't you have sex with a male?

Its really great to hear that you just introduce your gay friend to some of your fellow students (or other aquaintances), and that all of them indeed react very positive. I tend to think that these people are very aware that you were very happy and very relaxed at that time (no need anymore to hide the real DM, and even together with a sweet guy).

Just be aware that not all gays are flamboyant and very outsproken. People are different, and that's also the case for gays. And who knows how you feel yourself after some months / after a year or so. It just takes some time to get used that DM is a gay guy, and that there is nothing wrong with being an open gay.

Ah, so your friend is less deep in the closet when he does not care kissing and hugging you in such a bar where alot of fellow students are present as well. All of them can see what's going on between you and him. Definately, gay couples kiss just as much and hug just as much as straight couples.

And there are also no real rules how you should name the type of friendship with him. Maybe some sort of 'friend with benefits'. I don't know, and why not make some love with him, as long as he likes it as much as you like it. Why not keep 'good friends' with him for the time being, and in some sort of vague status?

I tend to think that you are really a gay, but its ony you who knows the truth.

Take care and best wishes.

 

[drunkenmoron]

Snip

You're spot on with that, that is kinda how I'm feeling right now. Maybe I should just open up to dating more effeminate guys, might make me realise that there's really nothing to dislike about them. One of my friend's housemates I was out with the other night's really camp but after a few drinks I ended up finding it kinda charming and something attractive about him rather than the opposite, so maybe I'll just get over it in time anyway

Snip

Thanks a lot for that

Obviously in an ideal world there should be no difference between straight guys being affectionate to girls in public and gay guys being affectionate to guys in public, but I know it's not quite there yet... maybe it's not nearly as big a gap as I thought though.

I've spoken to him and basically told him exactly how I'm feeling and it's all gone down smoothly, I reckon 'friends with benefits' might be how it goes from now on, until I end up in a relationship with someone of course. I'll just see how it goes with other guys and how I feel after, hopefully this guilt stuff subsides as I become more comfortable with everything.

 

[Rolyo85]

All that said, don't force yourself to "like" effeminate guys. We like what we like. Just try not to look down on them.

 

[TheBlackOne]

this might seem like a stupid question but is he openly gay?

and have you kissed anyone else or danced/grinded with any other guys before in clubs when you've been drinking a lot?

 

[drunkenmoron]

No he's completely in the closet, I thinnk he just lets his guard down bigtime when he's drunk and stops caring... according to friends I've been out with, he seems way more into it than me.

Nope never done anything like that before, when I was in the closet I was in the closet regardless of how drunk/high/messed up I was

 

[Rolyo85]

I know that's not an easy advice to follow right now for you, but I strongly recommend to not involve yourself with closeted guys. They tend to drag YOU back in the closet, you have to abide by their own fears and shame, their own uncertainties and internal conflicts. And you do not want to be dragged back, you don't want your own fears and shame reinforced.

I apologize to all the closeted guys this offends, but it's the truth.

 

[drunkenmoron]

I understand where you're coming from, but I was in the same position as this guy a couple of months ago, moved to a new city to study, didn't wanna tell my coursemates I was gay etc.

The difference is he put himself on a dating site while he's still closeted and he made next to no effort to hide what we were doing in public... if a guy was gonna be that closeted that they wouldn't want to meet my mates or be seen in public with me it'd be a different story. That's how I would've been had I not come out, which is why I waited til I had to start looking for guys

 

[Rolyo85]

Yeah, I don't really get it when closeted guys try to both put themselves out there, and stay in the closet...

 

[Ganoderma]

hi DM,

So how is your current relationship with your coursemates / fellow students, as right now quite a few of them (most? all?) will be aware that DM = gay?

I tend to think that nothing / almost nothing has changed? 'Well, DM = gay, so that explains why DM did not seem to show alot of interest in girls?' Something like that? 'Well, there are several gay students on the uni, so DM is one of them, no big deal, as one of my cousins is also gay.'

Once again, nice and brave of you that you went to the student bar with your gay friend, as now you don't need to bother telling anymore to a bunch of people that you are gay. That's done.

Take your time with this guy, and let him decide what he wants to do. Ofcourse, you can give him some advice.

I would like to wish you all the best.

 

[TheBlackOne]

I understand where you're coming from, but I was in the same position as this guy a couple of months ago, moved to a new city to study, didn't wanna tell my coursemates I was gay etc.

The difference is he put himself on a dating site while he's still closeted and he made next to no effort to hide what we were doing in public... if a guy was gonna be that closeted that they wouldn't want to meet my mates or be seen in public with me it'd be a different story. That's how I would've been had I not come out, which is why I waited til I had to start looking for guys

that situation is scarily similar to mine, I had to check that you weren't the guy that I was thinking of. don't worry, you aren't haha

but at least you got further with your guy

best of luck to ya