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It doesn't seem like you care for my posts too much. If you want to skip reading them from now on, that's okay with me.
I find Martin's handling of Stoneheart in the books a bit mysterious and irritating. She seems rather neglected, almost forgotten. And I think the hope or expectation that many people are voicing here now is relevant to that; I likewise harbored (and still do) a hope for Stoneheart to return for glorious revenge. Maybe in book 6 or 7?????
No, no, no. I was agreeing with you about neoachilles posting a spoiler--A mega one, for fuck's sake. You don't post spoilers, why would I say that to you?
You don't understand the story at all, if you honestly think it is Cat's fault, but it is also difficult to discern whether you are saying the RW is Cat's(which it certainly is not) or the War of Five(3 kings now) Kings(which is debatable, but misguided)
but it is also difficult to discern whether you are saying the RW is Cat's(which it certainly is not) or the War of Five(3 kings now) Kings(which is debatable, but misguided)
I have to say that my hat is off to everyone not spoiling the surprise of the Red Wedding. With a penultimate episode so powerful...it would have been so easy for all those who had read the books or were inside the entertainment industry to spoil the episode.
Thank you And meanwhile, it's pretty disappointing that it's now ALL over the net often without warnings, when most readers tried to not tell about this for 10+ years
Do yourselves a favor and try to resist the urge of looking up stuff about this series online, since so much more of significance and with surprise will happen. possibly even this season, as the many spoiler tags show. (and yeah, i think this is how the season will end, the other thing that some people have been mentioning would be a bit on a "too short notice". the plot is only at the beginning)
The Red Wedding was definitely not Cat's fault, that all rests on Robb, Robb married Talisa knowing he was breaking an oath with the Freys, Catelyn was strictly against that marriage from the beginning
The Red Wedding was definitely not Cat's fault, that all rests on Robb, Robb married Talisa knowing he was breaking an oath with the Freys, Catelyn was strictly against that marriage from the beginning
Let me preface this by saying that I don't find "Cat" to be a sympathetic character. Give me a break! She's willfully cruel to Jon Snow and she knows it's wrong and yet she still gets off on it. She's despicable.
Anyhoo...
She released Jaime, which pissed off Rickard Karstark, which led him to betray Robb, which led Robb to murder his kin, which led the Karstarks to drop the cause, which led Robb to go crawling back to Walder Frey.
In short, Cat is a cunt who will never redeem herself in mine eyes. Piss off, Stoneheart. Sorry bout it.
Cat is far from a redeeming character. Even looking back at season 1 when she accused Tyrion of attempted murder of Bran because of the dagger, that was the major catalyst for the war which landed Ned's head on a pike. The "trial battles" as farfetched as they seem in modern times, carry a great importance in a character's "judgement" in the books.
Rob was still a poor decision maker which lead to his own death.
---
Looking ahead, I am quite interested in what they do with season 4. Fuck all happens in the book till the last 150 pages if you read A Feast for Crows. The funny part is...
Charles Dance already spoiled the "Finale": and they [the producers] accuse Alfie of being a spoilsport.
I will say, Dan & Dave did include a tease for book readers in this past episode...
The "wizard" remark by Gilly was a tell for readers about Samwell's journey to become a Maester. Now that I think about it, did they cut Maester Mormont out of the cast? Maybe they will just stuff into season 4.
Let me preface this by saying that I don't find "Cat" to be a sympathetic character. Give me a break! She's willfully cruel to Jon Snow and she knows it's wrong and yet she still gets off on it. She's despicable.
Anyhoo...
She released Jaime, which pissed off Rickard Karstark, which led him to betray Robb, which led Robb to murder his kin, which led the Karstarks to drop the cause, which led Robb to go crawling back to Walder Frey.
In short, Cat is a cunt who will never redeem herself in mine eyes. Piss off, Stoneheart. Sorry bout it.
She is not nice to Jon at all, that in not arguable, but he is "presumably" Neds bastard, and was a constant reminder of his infidelity, she is not defendable is that regard.
I understand those who want to be angry at her for releasing Jaime, but the Tully house words are "Family, Duty, Honor, and she released Jaime in hopes of getting the little family she had left back, her hope was if she released Jaime she could get her daughters back. I can't say I disagree with her actions, but to say it is her fault that Robb killed Karstark, is just flat wrong given the fact that Catelyn was against killing Karstark, but wanted to imprison him instead, it is Robb's fault he lost the Karstarks support, and like Karstark said Robb lost the war when he married Talisa. Talisa was his biggest mistake, something Cat was strongly against.
^^^
I do see the argument that Cat started the war when she accused Tyrion of killing Bran, but I must say I disagree, that would have only led to a conflict with the Stark vs the Lannisters, and I'm sure King Robert would have quickly put a stop to it. The argument as to how the war began has so many different options. Did it not start when the Lannisters sent someone to kill Bran, that led to Cat imprisoning Tyrion. It makes much more sense to me, that the war started when Ned revealed to Stannis and Renly that Joffrey was illegitimate and Ned was killed leading Robb to call the banners, thus the name the War of Five Kings.
Catelyn is a deeply flawed character, but I do not think she is any less redeemable than any of the Lannisters, including Tyrion who is much toned down in the show. I personally feel she is treated much to harshly, just because of how she treats Jon, and I don't think she started the war.
I apparently spoke too soon about Maester Aemon. Although, for a centennial, he looks too young LMAO!
I'm not surprised they expedited Jaime's story line as it dithers around for a bit. However, it does make it a tad more bizarre on how to fill the plot holes.
-The other RW.
-Brianne to go look for look for "the Stark bitches" as Sansa is no longer in King's Landing when Jaime returns.
-Cersei's infidelities.
Oh well, time for the agonizing wait till Season 4.
From Martin's wiki page. Will television viewers exercise the same "patience" readers have??
Martin believes the two last volumes of the series will be big books of 1500+ manuscript pages each.[20] By October 2012, 400 pages of the sixth novel had been written, although Martin considers only the first 200 as "really finished", the rest still needing revisions.[21] Martin hopes to finish The Winds of Winter much faster than his troublesome fifth Ice and Fire novel.[22] In the past, Martin has angered some of his fan base for repeatedly estimating his publication dates too optimistically; therefore, he has refrained from making hard estimates for The Winds of Winter's final release date.[1] A realistic estimate for him for completing the sixth novel might be expected at three years, at a good writing pace of roughly 500 manuscript pages per year,[23] but ultimately the book "will be done when it's done".[12] Martin has acknowledged his concerns about the final novel not being completed by the time the HBO series Game of Thrones finally catches up in its story line to the novels.[24] He does not intend to separate characters by geography again, as he was forced to do because of the unpublishable length of A Feast for Crows' original manuscript. But, in his words, "Three years from [2011] when I'm sitting on 1,800 pages of manuscript with no end in sight, who the hell knows".[25]
The show will most definitely catch up with him. We'll be lucky if The Winds of Winter is published before the last season of the show airs. Which concerns me as a book + tv fan. As much as I loved some of the streamlining the tv show did, I am forever bitter about their handling of Cat. Not here for D&D's bastardised version of future events.
It's a very odd situation. The viewing audience dwarfs the reading audience. And the commercial demands from HBO, advertising, production, actors' contracts, sets and transportation, continuity, so on and so forth must be enormous. What a gigantic amount of pressure on one man! Hopefully, he has some super-secretary/manager/psychologist to coach him through it all.
I understand those who want to be angry at her for releasing Jaime, but the Tully house words are "Family, Duty, Honor, and she released Jaime in hopes of getting the little family she had left back,
All the houses, and fricking commoners, were losing family left and right, why do you give SELFISH 'Cat' a pass for doing something monumentally stupid?
Man where to start? I guess Iwan is Ramsey Bolton, but it's odd that he is personally doing all the torture himself. I hate Theon as much as anyone else for what he did but that was way too cruel to cut his dick off. That didn't even happen in the book. Ramsey really sent a finger I believe. His dick is still attached in the coming books so that was a ridiculous move.
I read about the Red Wedding since a long time ago and it shocked the hell out of me just like it did people who saw the show and didn't know what was gonna happen. It was just as sad on the show. Overall I love what they did with the show this season and it was way better than last season. I liked the ending with Dany and the Yunkai ex-slaves calling her mother. There is a lot more drama in store, but I hope the show doesn't move too fast and catch up with the last book that's out.
(And squealing girls.)
