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Healthcare going forward

Benvolio said:
You might like to know that the Constitutionsl Convention wasslso kept secret, for the same reason. They did not want screeches of outrage over every proposal until the delegates had completed their own discussion and compromising, and the public could see the document as a whole.
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This comparison is ludicrous -- and either purposely deceptive or ignorant. There wasn't one faction keeping it all secret from the rest, and they deliberately finished a document they believed the public would support before releasing it -- and then urged the states and people to debate it thoroughly.

So you're effectively comparing surgery to a hatchet job.
 
E
Kulindahr said:
I'll say it again: email your Democrat senators; insist they put a hold on this!

Yes, their names will be published if they do -- but they should be PROUD to have their names put out where everyone can see who stopped this idiocy.
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Great idea. As Obamacare collapses the democrats will get the blame for putting the repair on hold.
 
Kulindahr said:
There's a simple way to stop this: Senate rules allow ANY Senator to put a hold on a bill so he can investigate it. All it takes is one Senator, and the bill is frozen. Wikipedia...
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Generally, I hate that loophole - and I think you're partially wrong; CAN'T the one Senator put a hold on a bill ANONYMOUSLY? I am pretty sure I remember there being a lot of anonymous holds on bills (IIRC, usually by Republicans when Bill Clinton was in office), and that provision was being abused to-the-hilt.

However, no amount of abuse of that rule in the Senate even comes close to equaling the nearly unprecedented World-Class-Level of abuse, carnage, and DEATH that this bill would force on We The People.
 
rareboy said:
ER is the worst place to receive episodic care...particularly if the problem has progressed to the point that it becomes catastrophic intervention.

My heart goes out to all the health care providers out there who will be devastated by this Act.
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Needing care and Giving care is not something you can just turn off. How in the world can I turn my back on someone who looks me in the eye and is filled with pain and terrified by the cost of treatment? This s*it is impossible to turn off. I cannot eat or sleep in the shadow of this. Apologies for the venting. This makes me weep.
 
Kulindahr said:
I'll say it again: email your Democrat senators; insist they put a hold on this!
Benvolio said:
Great idea. As Obamacare collapses the democrats will get the blame for putting the repair on hold.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Benvolio just gave you the political reality. The Republicans know that a) they can't cobble together a bill that will satisfy the moderate wing and the Tea Party wing of the Republican party and b) these bills aren't popular with anyone but a few extremely wealthy donors.

The Republicans haven't caught on that the "base" that they have been promising a "repeal" to is not the same base that elected Trump. The Trump base is looking for government to fix their problems- a conservative version of the New Deal that put people back to work and built a safety net for the unemployed and disadvantaged. It's the Trump base (particularly those on Medicaid) or who live in rural areas that will get screwed by the AHCA and BRCA.

It would just be too easy to blame the Democrats if they do the Republicans the favor of blocking the bill. The Republicans don't have the votes and they are screwing their own base with their attempts to pass this legislation. Having the Democrats to blame lets the Republicans off the hook.

Here's the thing: you can't win elections by running against everything. If you want to win and keep your majority, you have to be for something. Have you heard the Democrats say how they would fix Obamacare? Everyone agrees that there are areas (particularly the Exchanges) that need to be fixed but there's no plan that the Democrats or Republicans are proposing that would fix the short-comings.

Of course, the Democrats are still behind because they've never been able to explain that the ACA is a bill that is designed to get pay their healthcare providers to keep their patients well. The old system rewards providers for allowing patients to get sick and then using the most expensive interventions to try to cure, instead of prevent, illness.

Ask yourself this: how many times have you called a doctors office and the message on their call waiting says "If this is an emergency, call 911"? That's exactly what the ACA is designed to fix. We want patients to get affordable preventive care instead of waiting until there is an emergency and then using the most expensive (and often free) form of healthcare- the emergency room. Ever heard a Democrat explain that?
 
The irony of this thread...the title...Healthcare going forward...

I would say Healthcare going backward is more accurate...
 
eastofeden said:
The irony of this thread...the title...Healthcare going forward...

I would say Healthcare going backward is more accurate...
Click to expand...

Bud Abbott: "Back up."
Lou Costello: "Back up?"
Bud: "Yes, go ahead."
Lou: "Go ahead?"
Bud: "No! Back up."
Lou: "Back up."
Bud: "Yes, now go ahead."
Lou: "Go ahead."
(etc. etc. etc.)
 
frankfrank said:
Generally, I hate that loophole - and I think you're partially wrong; CAN'T the one Senator put a hold on a bill ANONYMOUSLY? I am pretty sure I remember there being a lot of anonymous holds on bills (IIRC, usually by Republicans when Bill Clinton was in office), and that provision was being abused to-the-hilt.

However, no amount of abuse of that rule in the Senate even comes close to equaling the nearly unprecedented World-Class-Level of abuse, carnage, and DEATH that this bill would force on We The People.
Click to expand...

They changed the rules so a senator only remains anonymous for 48 hours. If there are two, though, they can tag-team, one letting his hold stand for 47:59 and then dropping it -- right after the other starts his hold. That can go on forever.

If there was ever a time to use it, this is one.
 
KaraBulut said:
Benvolio just gave you the political reality. The Republicans know that a) they can't cobble together a bill that will satisfy the moderate wing and the Tea Party wing of the Republican party and b) these bills aren't popular with anyone but a few extremely wealthy donors.

The Republicans haven't caught on that the "base" that they have been promising a "repeal" to is not the same base that elected Trump. The Trump base is looking for government to fix their problems- a conservative version of the New Deal that put people back to work and built a safety net for the unemployed and disadvantaged. It's the Trump base (particularly those on Medicaid) or who live in rural areas that will get screwed by the AHCA and BRCA.

It would just be too easy to blame the Democrats if they do the Republicans the favor of blocking the bill. The Republicans don't have the votes and they are screwing their own base with their attempts to pass this legislation. Having the Democrats to blame lets the Republicans off the hook.

Here's the thing: you can't win elections by running against everything. If you want to win and keep your majority, you have to be for something. Have you heard the Democrats say how they would fix Obamacare? Everyone agrees that there are areas (particularly the Exchanges) that need to be fixed but there's no plan that the Democrats or Republicans are proposing that would fix the short-comings.

Of course, the Democrats are still behind because they've never been able to explain that the ACA is a bill that is designed to get pay their healthcare providers to keep their patients well. The old system rewards providers for allowing patients to get sick and then using the most expensive interventions to try to cure, instead of prevent, illness.

Ask yourself this: how many times have you called a doctors office and the message on their call waiting says "If this is an emergency, call 911"? That's exactly what the ACA is designed to fix. We want patients to get affordable preventive care instead of waiting until there is an emergency and then using the most expensive (and often free) form of healthcare- the emergency room. Ever heard a Democrat explain that?
Click to expand...

Actually, I heard Senator Wyden explain just that at a town hall meeting here, in plain terms -- and pointing the right direction to the local hospital just down the street when he mentioned it.
 
eastofeden said:
The irony of this thread...the title...Healthcare going forward...

I would say Healthcare going backward is more accurate...
Click to expand...

I said that pages ago -- I tried to find it, but JUB's search function tells me I haven't made any posts in this thread...... I wonder if the search function was written by the GOP?
 
^ Well, with over 1,300 posts, there's bound to be a few people having the same thoughts occasionally.
 
Kinda off topic but the funny thing for me....it was the late 1990s and I was on a message board that was very busy as it was new at the time...and when someone would post something alot of times we all did a version of "ain't it awful" in response...and finally I decided I would not read any responses until I gave my own original thought,.....still do it to this day....

Sometimes I am so in left field I even laugh and other times it is funny how people have nearly or exactly the same thoughts.....

I do go back and read though...but when a thread is established and lengthy I only go back and read the page I posted on...

When I have posted already or read already and not posted I will sometimes quote something to respond to...

It is kinda obvious though because the only people they are helping are the very rich and their rich donors....everyone else is screwed...DEFINITELY going backward...
 
So I saw some Republicans floating ideas to try and reach a deal that both conservatives and moderates can buy into. Here is one from Ted Cruz:
No legislative text of Cruz’s proposal is yet available, but this is the gist: As long as a health plan offered at least one Obamacare-compliant plan in a state, the plan would also be allowed to offer non-Obamacare-compliant plans in that state.
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Ted Cruz has a big idea that just might unlock a Senate health care deal


Also being suggested by some Republican moderates is keeping the ACA taxes aimed at the rich, such as the 3.8% tax on investment income and .9% tax on high-income earners and using that money to beef up the subsidies the AHCA/BCRA offers to help people purchase health insurance.

That would be two birds with one stone approach as it would offset the biggest criticism of the bill of tax cuts for the rich while offering more help to low-income.

But it is going to be a hard sell to the Republicans who have campaigned saying those taxes are job killing, etc.
The latest idea to resurrect the Senate health care bill keeps a major part of Obamacare
 
eastofeden said:
The irony of this thread...the title...Healthcare going forward...

I would say Healthcare going backward is more accurate...
Click to expand...

Well, the original idea of the discussion was assuming that the Republicans were going to make good on their promise of repealing the ACA, what was the best way forward from that point, so the big leap backward is assumed in the discussion. The question is how do we recover and go forward from there.
 
So more indications of the cutting back on the rich tax cuts to save the healthcare bill:

The most notable sign of their strategy on Thursday was a willingness to scrap cutting the capital gains tax rate on wealthy individuals and families from 23.8 percent to 20 percent, according to several GOP senators.
GOP leaders would use the savings to provide more money for low-income Americans who might not be able to afford health insurance — a goal of centrist Republican opponents of the healthcare bill.

“Leaving the burden on the low-income and at the same time repealing that 3.8 percent is not an appropriate way going about dealing with this issue and leadership is attempting to address that. I'm actually very confident that's going to be addressed,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) told reporters Thursday afternoon.

Scrapping language cutting the capital gains tax would provide hundreds of billions of dollars in additional revenue to increase tax credits for low-income families, beef up the stabilization fund and enhance Medicaid payments.
Click to expand...
GOP scrambles to win centrist votes on ObamaCare repeal

They, of course, have the same problem, the more they appease the moderates the more they alienate the conservatives:

“We pledged that we would repeal ObamaCare,” Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) told reporters. “I don't remember anybody going around saying, 'Oh except for these job killing tax increases.’”
Click to expand...

But it is clear that the leadership is hoping to make the bill palatable by throwing money at it.
 
Stardreamer said:
So more indications of the cutting back on the rich tax cuts to save the healthcare bill:


GOP scrambles to win centrist votes on ObamaCare repeal

They, of course, have the same problem, the more they appease the moderates the more they alienate the conservatives:



But it is clear that the leadership is hoping to make the bill palatable by throwing money at it.
Click to expand...

A merry go round filled with vote catching attractions. The fun of it all. What a bunch of Marys.
 
Now I'm hearing rumblings about simply repealing The ACA - and "figuring out" its replacement at some later date, to be determined.

Consider that the last time there was any kind of significant health-care bill legislated and signed into law, it was toward the end of the era when there was still a hint of the two parties working with each other. Even then, it took something like SEVENTY YEARS to get anything passed.

How long will a replacement take this time, with nobody willing to "work across the aisle" - possibly 5,000 years?
 
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