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Healthcare going forward

Benvolio said:
Nonsense. It is a big part of the problem. http://kff.org/disparities-policy/issue-brief/health-coverage-and-care-for-immigrants/
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No, it serves as a derailment and I am sure is completely inaccurate information coming from you, if you can't talk about Health insurance going forward, then move on from the thread. It is completely irresponsible (understatement) for a Government to take away Health insurance froms thousands upon thousands of citizens without a back up plan in place, especially when the party taking it away have done nothing but criticize it the whole time it's been intact. Instead of coming up with a plan over all these years, they sat back and whined instead. They are a complete failure to the Government and its people.
 
opinterph said:
Please explain how the link you provided relates to your affirmation.
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Immigrants and illegals have a much higher rate of uninsurance than others. Illegals are ineligible for medicare BUT they can recieve emergency medicaid, including labor and deliver and in some states prenatal. They are part of the burden of medical care born by those who do pay or pay for insurance or the taxpayer. Any scheme to provide free or cheap insurance must take that burden into account, and any scheme makes invasion more attractive. It is unlikely that they can or will pay for insurance and it is wrong to expect premium payers or taxpayers to pay for insurance for illegals.
 
MakeDigitalLove said:
No, it serves as a derailment and I am sure is completely inaccurate information coming from you, if you can't talk about Health insurance going forward, then move on from the thread. It is completely irresponsible (understatement) for a Government to take away Health insurance froms thousands upon thousands of citizens without a back up plan in place, especially when the party taking it away have done nothing but criticize it the whole time it's been intact. Instead of coming up with a plan over all these years, they sat back and whined instead. They are a complete failure to the Government and its people.
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We have never and do not want communism or socialism. Republicans know that they will be the victims of any such scheme, democrats will always work to give insurance free to as many of their voters as possible at the expense of Republicans as much as possible. Minorities to the maximum exrent possible is their guiding principle.
 
You didn't address what I said at all. Don't reply to me if you can't respond to what I said. Also stop attempting to derail.
 
MakeDigitalLove said:
You didn't address what I said at all. Don't reply to me if you can't respond to what I said. Also stop attempting to derail.
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I explained why Republicans did not come up with a plan, which was responsive to your whine.
 
Benvolio said:
I explained why Republicans did not come up with a plan, which was responsive to your whine.
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No you didn't. Feel free to actually explain to me a good enough reason as to why a party that was so ready to do away with the ACA had no plans of their own. So instead they will leave Millions without it because they failed the people they are supposed to serve.

Nice bait attempt as well. Unfortunately I know you will get away with it, I assume because mods like and agree with what you do here.
 
Benvolio said:
Immigrants and illegals have a much higher rate of uninsurance than others. Illegals are ineligible for medicare BUT they can recieve emergency medicaid, including labor and deliver and in some states prenatal. They are part of the burden of medical care born by those who do pay or pay for insurance or the taxpayer. Any scheme to provide free or cheap insurance must take that burden into account, and any scheme makes invasion more attractive. It is unlikely that they can or will pay for insurance and it is wrong to expect premium payers or taxpayers to pay for insurance for illegals.
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Your article says only one part of that: illegals are ineligible for coverage.
 
There's an irony here: the existing immigration law was enacted and signed into law by Democrats in an attempt to reduce the number of illegals crossing back and forth over the border annually. The unintended consequence was that rather than risk getting caught, people came and just stayed instead of going home again.

Democrats attempted to correct this by proposing guest worker programs, which Republicans have pretty consistently fought with the result that that problem just gets worse.

Now no one is interested in actual solutions because it's gone uncorrected so long that no matter what move is made some large segment of the population will scream about it.
 
gsdx said:
I guess my point should have been a little closer to the ground. It flew right over your head.

It seems to be more important to you for needful Americans to die than to even consider a suggestion and then blame the rest on illegals.
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That's not an atypical right-wing attitude: better to let innocent folks get hurt than let any "bad" person obtain the least bit of anything. So we get a justice system that no longer cares that innocent people get punished so long as we get the bad guys, and now an attitude that it's okay for citizens to die from lack of health care so long as none of "those people" get any help.

The irony is that's the very opposite of a Christian attitude, but it comes significantly from people who piously assert they want a Christian nation.
 
There are 6 billion people in the world and most want free health care, free food, etc, etc. We have to draw lines somewhere.
 
Benvolio said:
There are 6 billion people in the world and most want free health care, free food, etc, etc. We have to draw lines somewhere.
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So, let them die. At least a few of them thousands should be illegals. Acceptable losses.
 
Benvolio said:
There are 6 billion people in the world and most want free health care, free food, etc, etc. We have to draw lines somewhere.
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We have drawn a line.

This country has enough wealth to give basic care to all its citizens. Only those who don't believe we are or should be one people will oppose that. Besides which, doing so would actually save money -- that's been demonstrated pretty solidly.

But we need more doctors, or no plan will work.
 
Kulindahr said:
But we need more doctors, or no plan will work.
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Maybe we could use more nonphysician clinicians to supplement the work of our doctors, thereby extending services to more people in a timely manner.
 
Kulindahr said:
That would help, but we're still short on doctors and losing them faster than they're being replaced.
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The cost of gaining a doctorate in medicine is prohibitive. Reduced education costs would address the skill shortage over time (although not immediately given the time it takes to be a doctor, let alone a specialist or surgeon).

The barriers to entry and the hyper competitive grades required because of the apparent prestige of medicine has prevented many from even considering medicine.
 
Kabluey said:
The cost of gaining a doctorate in medicine is prohibitive. Reduced education costs would address the skill shortage over time (although not immediately given the time it takes to be a doctor, let alone a specialist or surgeon).

The barriers to entry and the hyper competitive grades required because of the apparent prestige of medicine has prevented many from even considering medicine.
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That's another thing that needs to be changed: our credit-oriented society. An education is expensive enough, but when people have to take out loans it effectively makes the cost even more ridiculous.

If we want good medical care, we have to handle the cost of the education differently, and not saddle the professionals we need with a near-crippling indebtedness. We recognize that for-profit healthcare is immoral at root; we should also recognize that education for profit is a part of that, and it also needs to end; if we're going to insist on medical students taking on massive debt just to go to school, then we should at the very least make the loans interest free.

And that comes back to needing more medical schools. If we want a good care system, that means making it possible for everyone capable and willing to be able to get the education. The system we have now is a hybrid of medieval universities and the factory concept of schools America fell in love with (it came from England), and it's outdated. Just for example, there should be a path that allows people who can't handle the stress and pressure of grades and deadlines to progress at a slower pace; I went to school with a number of such who struggled in their classes -- engineering, but the principle applies -- but made better engineers than their more brilliant classmates, and the same would be true of many medical students.

Even the ACA was just playing at tweaking the system. The real problem is that we need major surgery, not superficial plastic surgery.
 
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