Healthcare going forward

[Benvolio]

According to Brookings Institute -- 15 million would lose coverage under the proposed plan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthe...-the-gops-obamacare-replacement/#7eab601b5f16

Many of the them would be back where they were before this boondoggle. Where will they be if nothing is done and the system collapses? They had Medicaid before and will continue to have it in expanded form. Or they can go to Canada which wants "refugees".

 

[Kabluey]

The states receiving the most benefit include some red states, but they are states with large democrat minorities; South Carolina has a large Black population voting democrat, while the Dakotas have Native Americans. Some are working poor, but many do not work.
Some of the Reddest states are near the bottom.
Many with low income do not work, while other are in the underground market, working for cash and reporting no income, others are criminals. Should taxpayers really have to give insurance to everyone?

Maybe your ideal, where each town funds themselves, should be applied to each state.
Let California and New York be awash with all of the Federal tax their citizens and corporations pay.

Let those other states suffer for their dire economic problems.

Although following Ben's logic, the broke states would simply scapegoat their poorest citizens (ignoring the fact that even white Republicans earn a pittance compared to your average silicon valley citizen).

Even the poorest in a well run, wealthy state could lead a better life than the middle class in a broke, corrupt one that has depended on external federal funds for its recent history.

 

[gsdx]

Or they can go to Canada which wants "refugees".

It isn't a matter of wanting them. It's a matter of giving people who need help the help they need. It's sad when refugees taken in by the United Stated become refugees in the new homeland and flee north where they know they will be safe. Sound familiar?

(And before you start your 'fear of deportations' crap, don't even bother going there.

 

[KaraBulut]

...large democrat minorities...large Black population voting democrat...Native Americans. Some are working poor, but many do not work...

Not taking the bait on this one.

 

[Benvolio]

Not taking the bait on this one.

Or was it baiting to say that the biggest paynments went to Trump states?

 

[TX-Beau]

Or was it baiting to say that the biggest paynments went to Trump states?

Oh man, Ben thinks reality is baiting hem, explains a lot... You GO Ben, you ignore that fact, it's only trying to piss you off anyway!

 

[Stardreamer]

So what about Trump's promise of health insurance for 'everybody'?

It is clear that this bill doesn't even make an attempt to do that.

So the Hill listed the four major promises for healthcare. Here are the quotes and how they fair under the House Bill:

1. "Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say, because a lot of times they say, 'No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private,'" Trump said on CBS's "60 Minutes."

"I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. ... The government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan, and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies, and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything."

FAIL

2. Trump said he planned to "fully repeal -ObamaCare and replace it with health savings accounts."

COMPROMISE

3. "We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance companies from coming in and competing," Trump said during the second general election debate in October.

"President Obama and whoever was working on it, they want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies essentially monopolies. We want competition."

FAIL

4. "I'm not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican. And I'm not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid," he told The Daily Signal in 2015 before he officially announced his bid.

"And even if they wouldn't, they don't know what to do because they don't know where the money is. I do."

FAIL

 

[Kulindahr]

45% of US households pay no federal income tax. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

I don't understand why you complain about that. You claim to be libertarian; well, it's a common theme among libertarians that taxation is theft -- so you should be rejoicing that 45% of the people aren't being robbed by the federal government (at least not in this manner)!

The goal should be to make that number larger, until no one has to pay federal income tax.

 

[Kulindahr]

60% of households receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/60-households-get-more-benefits-they-pay-taxes
So if you wonder why we resist socialized medicine it is because we know a small percent of the people will pay for it all and then have to get at the back of the line for health care.

Kool --the rich people should be thrilled at how little they miss the wealth that is helping so many people!

As Warren Buffet and others have pointed out, the top 0.5% of income earners could be hit with a tax rate of two-thirds and still be insanely better off than the rest of the country. So those in that small portion should be proud of their contribution.
At least, if they think this is a country and they're part of it.

 

[Kulindahr]

3. I guess I'm more worried about the number of corporations who pay NOTHING despite earning billions. Or how about your lovely President that has not paid in years even though he "claims" to have earned billions (of course we will never know since he hasn't released his taxes -- unlike his predecessors).

Whoa -- this made me remember part of a dream last night! There was a constitutional convention and one of the amendments it added specified that federal income tax for corporations could not exceed twice the prime rate, and that the prime rate could not go into double digits (or negative).

 

[Kulindahr]

Let me show you that statistic in another view:

The states that are receiving the largest payments when compared to the taxpayer contribution toward federal taxes are the states that voted for Trump. For example, every $1 that South Carolina sends to the Federal Government is matched by $7.87 in Federal funds sent to South Carolina. Source

Why? Because these states have a larger number of the three categories of people who need the social safety net: the elderly (through Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security), children whose family is below the federal poverty level (through the Children's Health Insurance Program [CHIP] and through programs like Women, Infants and Children [WIC]) and the working poor (many of whom are in the industries worse hit by the recession and globalization).

It's worth noting that some states are high on the list because they have incredibly high miles of federal highways per capita -- that's a piece of why North Dakota is way up there. It would be nice to see the same chart but with highway dollars removed. I'm surprised that South Dakota and Montana aren't higher than they are.

I note that my state, Oregon, is smack dab in the middle -- the spot everyone should aspire to.

 

[Kulindahr]

According to Brookings Institute -- 15 million would lose coverage under the proposed plan.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthe...-the-gops-obamacare-replacement/#7eab601b5f16

Makes me think of a new name for the GOP: Go Out & Perish.

 

[Kulindahr]

Many of the them would be back where they were before this boondoggle. Where will they be if nothing is done and the system collapses? They had Medicaid before and will continue to have it in expanded form. Or they can go to Canada which wants "refugees".

"Boondoggle"?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[evanrick]

If blue states wanted to take back all the tax dollars that are being spent without their input or consent, just start your own currency and start writing the federal government IOU's.

 

[Benvolio]

So the Hill listed the four major promises for healthcare. Here are the quotes and how they fair under the House Bill:

1. "Everybody's got to be covered. This is an un-Republican thing for me to say, because a lot of times they say, 'No, no, the lower 25 percent that can't afford private,'" Trump said on CBS's "60 Minutes."

"I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not. Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. ... The government's gonna pay for it. But we're going to save so much money on the other side. But for the most it's going to be a private plan, and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies, and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything."

FAIL

2. Trump said he planned to "fully repeal -ObamaCare and replace it with health savings accounts."

COMPROMISE

3. "We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance companies from coming in and competing," Trump said during the second general election debate in October.

"President Obama and whoever was working on it, they want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies essentially monopolies. We want competition."

FAIL

4. "I'm not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican. And I'm not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid," he told The Daily Signal in 2015 before he officially announced his bid.

"And even if they wouldn't, they don't know what to do because they don't know where the money is. I do."

FAIL

Nonsense. He has only been in the WH a month an a half. The health care bill is a work in progress. Wait for the final product.

 

[rareboy]

Nonsense. He has only been in the WH a month an a half. The health care bill is a work in progress. Wait for the final product.

The one thing that will survive is the huge tax breaks for executives making more than 500k per year.

What the fuck is wrong with a government when this is part of a health care bill?

 

[Benvolio]

It's worth noting that some states are high on the list because they have incredibly high miles of federal highways per capita -- that's a piece of why North Dakota is way up there. It would be nice to see the same chart but with highway dollars removed. I'm surprised that South Dakota and Montana aren't higher than they are.

I note that my state, Oregon, is smack dab in the middle -- the spot everyone should aspire to.

It appears to me that that the bigger factor is likely to be minority welfare than highways. Texas and Alaska, the big states, are close to the middle.

 

[KaraBulut]

It's worth noting that some states are high on the list because they have incredibly high miles of federal highways per capita -- that's a piece of why North Dakota is way up there. It would be nice to see the same chart but with highway dollars removed. I'm surprised that South Dakota and Montana aren't higher than they are.

I note that my state, Oregon, is smack dab in the middle -- the spot everyone should aspire to.

I was surprised that North Dakota was so high on the list since as a major oil-producing state. In the latest numbers, they did move down (even though oil production is down and the price of oil is well under the previous price). Part of North Dakota's problem is one that is shared with many midwestern states- an aging population and depopulation as younger citizens leave the state. North Dakota had about 700,000 residents- less than the tiny states of Delaware and Rhode Island and less than most major cities in the US.

 

[Stardreamer]

Nonsense. He has only been in the WH a month an a half. The health care bill is a work in progress. Wait for the final product.

BUT he is saying he wants this bill to pass as close its current form as possible which means either he doesn't understand the bill or he LIED about all his promises. He has called this a wonderful bill. If he was being true to what he promised he would be demanding major changes to this bill before he would be willing to sign it.

 

[rareboy]

Instead of broadly rewarding Trump's backers, the House bill hands huge benefits to the tiny share of his voters earning the highest incomes. Their gains come at the expense of the much larger group of older, blue-collar whites who flocked to his "Make America Great Again" banner.

That redistribution of money from less-affluent Trump supporters to wealthy ones complicates the ability of Congress to deliver on "repeal-and-replace" promises.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/09/the-republican-health-care-bill-threatens-trumps-voters.html


The Republicans are going to try to bash this through, hoping that by the mid-terms the voters will have forgotten.

But they could end up losing bigly because of the lies they all have been telling.