Healthcare going forward

[Benvolio]

There is no good answer. The politicians win who succeed in blaming it on others.

 

[gsdx]

^ Not necessarily. Every time someone blames someone else for his own actions, he loses credibility. I can't think of a single instance where Trump has taken responsibility for his actions, but I can think of a number of times that he has stolen credit for things other people have done.

 

[KaraBulut]

The good news is that Trump himself is fucked if TrumpCare passes...or it doesn't.

Healthcare policy is the hill that many a politician has died upon. 2018 will probably be no exception to that rule.

 

[Stardreamer]

So Ryan and company are starting to consider significant changes to the bill, which tells me the whips have admitted they don't have the votes to pass it. Block grants instead of payment caps are back on the table, changes to the tax credits and work requirements.

Republicans zeroing in on changes to healthcare bill

Centrist Republicans have been pushing for changes to the tax credits in the GOP bill so that they would give more financial help to low-income people and older people, who they worry would not be given enough help to afford coverage under the current bill.

Medicaid work requirements are another change that the three different GOP factions — the centrist Tuesday Group, the RSC and ultraconservative Freedom Caucus — have been open to.

Some conservatives also want to add an option for states to block grant Medicaid, instead of the system of capped payments in the bill.

The White House and congressional GOP leaders have been working closely together on drafting a “manager’s amendment” that would be designed to pick up additional GOP votes for the legislation, known as the American Health Care Act.

Price said the Trump administration is looking at “tightening” the language surrounding tax credits, lawmakers in the meeting said.

“We need to make sure the tax credits are a closer approximation to the cost of healthcare insurance in the different age bands, so there could be some adjustments there,” former Republican Study Committee Chairman Bill Flores (R-Texas) told The Hill as he left the policy meeting.

Meanwhile Trump is making it clear that all his promises about better, cheaper healthcare means nothing as he emphasizes what he really cares about:

"I want people to know ObamaCare is dead; it's a dead healthcare plan," Trump said in the Oval Office after meeting with members of the RSC.

 

[Benvolio]

So Ryan and company are starting to consider significant changes to the bill, which tells me the whips have admitted they don't have the votes to pass it. Block grants instead of payment caps are back on the table, changes to the tax credits and work requirements.

Republicans zeroing in on changes to healthcare bill



Meanwhile Trump is making it clear that all his promises about better, cheaper healthcare means nothing as he emphasizes what he really cares about:

That is not an honest characterization of what he said. He talked at length about how great the new system will be. He was not only interested in the impending collapse of ACA.

 

[Stardreamer]

That is not an honest characterization of what he said. He talked at length about how great the new system will be. He was not only interested in the impending collapse of ACA.

Yes except the 'new system' resembles nothing of what he actually promised the new system would look like. All that really matters to him is that he can say he kept his promise to repeal and replace Obama care, that the replacement is not the plan he promised doesn't matter. Of course that is because he never had a plan in the first place, he just pulled his usual flim flam of promising the sky and leaving the details to Dorthy Ryan.

 

[Kulindahr]

That is not an honest characterization of what he said. He talked at length about how great the new system will be. He was not only interested in the impending collapse of ACA.

Yeah, the new system will be great just like the Trump Tower in Toronto was great.

 

[rareboy]

Yes except the 'new system' resembles nothing of what he actually promised the new system would look like. All that really matters to him is that he can say he kept his promise to repeal and replace Obama care, that the replacement is not the plan he promised doesn't matter. Of course that is because he never had a plan in the first place, he just pulled his usual flim flam of promising the sky and leaving the details to Dorthy Ryan.

The question remains. Is he just knowingly and cynically lying to the American People? Or is there a chance that he really doesn't even understand the bill he's pushing.

Because he continues to spew lies about it at every turn.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14961066/donald-trump-gop-health-bill

 

[Stardreamer]

The question remains. Is he just knowingly and cynically lying to the American People? Or is there a chance that he really doesn't even understand the bill he's pushing.

Because he continues to spew lies about it at every turn.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/17/14961066/donald-trump-gop-health-bill

I read that this morning and I think the author has a valid point. I keep coming back to my view of Trump as the Wizard of Oz, making a lot of big promises with no clue on how to actually deliver. I don't think he really understands or cares that what he is saying and what Ryan is delivering are two different things, he is just hoping it all works out and then he can claim victory for it and blame Ryan if it doesn't. But what do we expect from a man who has the vast resources of the US Presidency at his beck and call but chooses instead to get all his information from biased news sources and conspiracy websites?

 

[Benvolio]

Obama promised healthcare but left it entirely to Congress to create something for his signature. Congress passes laws, the president enforces or executes them.

 

[Stardreamer]

I keep getting hung up on the utter hypocrisy of this three-phase approach.

Republicans were all up in arms over Pelosi's "We have to pass the bill to see what is in it".
Ryan is offering is "We have to pass the bill, in order to pass some regulation, in order to pass another bill that only stands a chance of passing if all the spirits, stars and Democrats are in the right alignment, in order to see what is in it.

The issue I have is we are being asked to step down this garden path without seeing what is at the end. Yes, Obamacare is flawed and has some serious structural issues but despite all the Republican claims the CBO is telling us it is not at death's door yet. I would much rather the Republicans take the time to flesh out and present to us the whole deal of this three-phase plan before we get committed to it.

 

[Benvolio]

Every congressman and senator has different ideas and preferenced, so compromises are made. Until a bill passes that chamber no one can be sure what will be in it. Then a joint committee creates a compromise bill which it believes will pass Congress and be signed by the president. He might negotiate changes as a condition to signing.
That probably is what Pelosi meant, but she made it sound as though they were all passing a bill without reading it.

 

[Stardreamer]

Every congressman and senator has different ideas and preferenced, so compromises are made. Until a bill passes that chamber no one can be sure what will be in it. Then a joint committee creates a compromise bill which it believes will pass Congress and be signed by the president. He might negotiate changes as a condition to signing.
That probably is what Pelosi meant, but she made it sound as though they were all passing a bill without reading it.

That is pretty much exactly it in that case. The problem with this three-phase approach is we are being asked to move forward with a step that commits us to a change that will make things worse with a promise of a later legislative action that will make it all right. It is not even a case of not reading the whole bill but that the whole bill hasn't even been written.

Saying that the current bill is just phase one is meaningless unless we have some real ideas of what phase two and three looks like and a realistic expectation that they will happen.

 

[Stardreamer]

It seems Ted Cruz understands the problem with the three-phase approach:

Sen. Ted Cruz, meanwhile, called for major changes to the bill, saying it would cause premiums to rise.

"That ain't gonna happen," the Texas Republican said on CBS's "Face the Nation.
Cruz said Republicans needed to take their ideas for the third phase of the health care overhaul, a grab bag of legislative changes, and put them into the first phase, the American Health Care Act.

"It's their so-called three-bucket solution," Cruz said. "All the good stuff is in bucket three. I've called bucket three the suckers' bucket. Take everything in bucket three. Put it in bucket one."

"We can do this now in bucket one," Cruz added. "If we don't, this bill doesn't pass."

Tom Price: Trump's health care promises will be true down the line

I fully agree if you have something that going to fulfil all Trump's promises and can get the 60 vote approval then put it on the table as one bill now. Otherwise, it just looks like your playing a shell game.

 

[Benvolio]

That is pretty much exactly it in that case. The problem with this three-phase approach is we are being asked to move forward with a step that commits us to a change that will make things worse with a promise of a later legislative action that will make it all right. It is not even a case of not reading the whole bill but that the whole bill hasn't even been written.

Saying that the current bill is just phase one is meaningless unless we have some real ideas of what phase two and three looks like and a realistic expectation that they will happen.

You are not being asked to do anthing. You have cast you ballot and now you will have to wait for the outcome. You csnt take comfort in knowing that Obamacare will fail in any event. So at worst, this is the second experiment.

 

[Stardreamer]

You are not being asked to do anthing. You have cast you ballot and now you will have to wait for the outcome. You csnt take comfort in knowing that Obamacare will fail in any event. So at worst, this is the second experiment.

Actually, I can and am doing things. Writing my Congressmen for one, expressing my concerns in public debates for another. We as citizens have a right to express our concerns at the questionable approach being taken with the AHCA. And such public opinion matters and will impact if the bill passes.

Part of what I fear is the reason for the headlong rush to pass the AHCA without due consideration is the actual fear that Obamacare will NOT fail as the Republicans keep claiming. The CBO report says that if no changes occur the ACA markets are suffering problems but appear to be stable going forward. As I said, it has serious problems and may fail eventually but it is not at death's door and we have time to seriously debate and do the fix RIGHT.

 

[rareboy]

You are not being asked to do anthing. You have cast you ballot and now you will have to wait for the outcome. You csnt take comfort in knowing that Obamacare will fail in any event. So at worst, this is the second experiment.

This is just a stupid statement.

In the same way that people protested and made their opinions known when Obamacare was being created....every citizen is being asked to not only understand what is in this bill but to raise their voices and push for changes through their legislators.

To sit back and do nothing is an abdication of responsibility on any issue.

 

[Stardreamer]

So Ryan is caving to the pressure against his beloved plan, not from the right wing screaming it doesn't go far enough but from one of the 800-pound gorillas in the room, the AARP crowd. Ryan said today after being confronted with the numbers on how seniors were getting shafted by the deal that changes would have to be made in order to pass it. He didn't say what but indications are far more generous financial assistance for seniors.

 

[rareboy]

Thank God for old people.

Because even Ryan knows they vote.

 

[frankfrank]

we are being asked to move forward with a step that commits us to a change that will make things worse with a promise of a later legislative action that will make it all right.

Saying that the current bill is just phase one is meaningless unless we have some real ideas of what phase two and three looks like and a realistic expectation that they will happen.

How can I have any real expectations when, after decades of effort that began before I was even born (and I'm an old guy on Social Security), the best that could be come up with was ACA (a/k/a Obamacare) which was no more than a lukewarm semi-remedy which brought new insurance to only about one-half of the people who formerly didn't have it? Even more so when this effort is being controlled by a political party which has nothing but scorn for the "little people" who are working at "inferior" jobs? And, by a party that has deliberately stalled Medicaid expansion into many of the states they control.

Somehow, if they repeal and don't replace right away, I expect something maybe by 2052 or 2053, or maybe earlier if they can pass Health Savings Accounts and tax credits which of course do NOTHING for most people.