Healthcare going forward

[gsdx]

Thanks to johanninsc for this. It seems very appropriate.

And there was much rejoicing.

As long as the 'haves' continue to have more and the 'have nots' continue to have less, this will not stop.

 

[Benvolio]

The other reason they are hell bent on fucking people over has to do with the fact repub donors were promised a tax break--something else these fart smellers campaigned on--a thick big juicy tax break that can only come at the expense of "repeal and (not) replace".

These guys are scum.

No, it is not that complicated. We have never wanted socialism and government control. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

 

[ballcaphair]

No, it is not that complicated. We have never wanted socialism and government control. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Socialism and social security are two differnt things as are government control and universal health care. It's not so hard to understand: have a personal trip to ER and get back to me. Also, please bring receipts for me to understand.

 

[gsdx]

^ Interesting that he says that, eh? I mean, Trump is well on his way to complete government control.

Funny, that.

 

[Benvolio]

^ Interesting that he says that, eh? I mean, Trump is well on his way to complete government control.

Funny, that.

Wrong. Trump has repealed government regulations and reduced government control. Your tiresome tit for tat does not work.

 

[rareboy]

hahahaha

John McCain may kill the whole thing again.

 

[JordanFrank]

No, it is not that complicated. We have never wanted socialism and government control. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

Guy, put a chill in it, the only thing that's hard for me to understand is how repubs can be such cruel asshole motherfuckers in all this repeal bullshit....

 

[ballcaphair]

Wrong. Trump has repealed government regulations and reduced government control. Your tiresome tit for tat does not work.

repealing government regulations and spending the money on anything else. It's tit for our health.

 

[Benvolio]

Meanwhile, Obamacare premiums skyrocket. Republicans don't have to repeal it, just let it continue to implode. Insurance cannot cover preexisting illnesses, only charity can.

 

[rareboy]

No, it is not that complicated. We have never wanted socialism and government control. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

 

[KaraBulut]

Meanwhile, Obamacare premiums skyrocket. Republicans don't have to repeal it, just let it continue to implode. Insurance cannot cover preexisting illnesses, only charity can.

I know this will be a surprise to you but Trump and the Republicans in Congress have been lying about the premium increases.

Trump frequently says that premiums are "increasing 60! 70! maybe even 80 percent!". He's lying. He may not know he's lying though because it's becoming apparent that he doesn't know much about anything when it comes to healthcare. Trump claimed 60% increases in Florida, for example; Florida's premiums increased 14% last year. He's lying.

The truth is that there were some states like Alaska where the Individual Market premiums were too low and these states had large increases. Alaska has very few doctors and a lot of poor people. If you get really sick in Alaska, there's a probability that it will require an air ambulance to take you to the nearest hospital. The average Alaskan in the ACA Individual Market pays $93 out-of-pocket per month because the subsidies cover most of their cost. Before the ACA, the average out-of-pocket for an Alaskan with an individual policy was $344, according to KFF.

Seven million people in the Individual Marketplace get subsidies and tax credits, so they pay less than $100 per month for their insurance. These 7 million people compose about 77% of the people in the Marketplace. They won't notice any change in the out-of-pocket amount that they pay each month for coverage.

The truth: The truth is that most states saw a 15% increase in premiums last year. The non-ACA employer based market had increases around 7-8%, so the increase in the ACA Individual Market is about double what the non-ACA market had last year. Most people with ACA plans will not see the increase because the subsidies pay for about 77% of their cost.

15% is not "sky-rocketing". That's a lie.

Let's be clear about something: Trump is threatening to eliminate some of the subsidies that allow the out-of-pocket amount to be low. He's threatening to do this with the intention of sabotaging the ACA.

This is beginning to be a common theme: Republicans intentionally sabotaging a program that can be fixed. They are doing it so that they can finance a tax cut for the the wealthy donors to their party. They are also concerned because the wealthy donors like Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn are withholding their subsidies to the Republican Party to put pressure on them to pass something to repeal the ACA. These donors are in that top tier of income-earners who have to pay the wealth taxes in the ACA.

Campaign fund-raising was drying up, he said, because of widespread disappointment among donors over the inability of the Republican Senate to repeal the Affordable Care Act or do much of anything else...

One party official noted that Senate Republicans had a lucrative March, raising $7 million — an off-year record for the organization. But in the aftermath of the failed health repeal effort before the August recess and other setbacks, the take dropped to $2 million in July and August — a poor showing for a majority party with a decided advantage on the midterm map.

The totals have left Republicans increasingly worried about having the funds they need next year. Mr. Gardner told his colleagues that a major Colorado contributor who played a role in his own campaign says party donors are reluctant to give any more money until congressional Republicans demonstrate results.

Source

 

[Benvolio]

I know this will be a surprise to you but Trump and the Republicans in Congress have been lying about the premium increases.

Trump frequently says that premiums are "increasing 60! 70! maybe even 80 percent!". He's lying. He may not know he's lying though because it's becoming apparent that he doesn't know much about anything when it comes to healthcare. Trump claimed 60% increases in Florida, for example; Florida's premiums increased 14% last year. He's lying.

The truth is that there were some states like Alaska where the Individual Market premiums were too low and these states had large increases. Alaska has very few doctors and a lot of poor people. If you get really sick in Alaska, there's a probability that it will require an air ambulance to take you to the nearest hospital. The average Alaskan in the ACA Individual Market pays $93 out-of-pocket per month because the subsidies cover most of their cost. Before the ACA, the average out-of-pocket for an Alaskan with an individual policy was $344, according to KFF.

Seven million people in the Individual Marketplace get subsidies and tax credits, so they pay less than $100 per month for their insurance. These 7 million people compose about 77% of the people in the Marketplace. They won't notice any change in the out-of-pocket amount that they pay each month for coverage.

The truth: The truth is that most states saw a 15% increase in premiums last year. The non-ACA employer based market had increases around 7-8%, so the increase in the ACA Individual Market is about double what the non-ACA market had last year. Most people with ACA plans will not see the increase because the subsidies pay for about 77% of their cost.

15% is not "sky-rocketing". That's a lie.

Let's be clear about something: Trump is threatening to eliminate some of the subsidies that allow the out-of-pocket amount to be low. He's threatening to do this with the intention of sabotaging the ACA.

This is beginning to be a common theme: Republicans intentionally sabotaging a program that can be fixed. They are doing it so that they can finance a tax cut for the the wealthy donors to their party. They are also concerned because the wealthy donors like Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn are withholding their subsidies to the Republican Party to put pressure on them to pass something to repeal the ACA. These donors are in that top tier of income-earners who have to pay the wealth taxes in the ACA.

Source

The 15% increase is not the premium but the individuals payment after the taxpayers pick up the rest. You seem to believe that the half the country who pay income taxes should be happy to pay for the other half as well as their own--and watch their own care deteriorate. You cannot expect the victims of the scheme to be happy about it.

 

[ballcaphair]

^^^^^^^^ Perfectly accurate. Evenly distributed medical benefits distributed by the government is actually socialized medicine, not to be confused with univeral healthcare. Universal care is not socialization.

 

[Benvolio]

^^^^^^^^ Perfectly accurate. Evenly distributed medical benefits distributed by the government is actually socialized medicine, not to be confused with univeral healthcare. Universal care is not socialization.

That is too broad. Universal care subsidized and controlled by the government is socialism. You cannot change the substance by merely changing the words.

 

[kallipolis]

That is too broad. Universal care subsidized and controlled by the government is socialism. You cannot change the substance by merely changing the words.

This is rather pedantic for in all universal health care schemes on this planet the user pays through contributions to a national insurance fund, or through specific insurance funds that are functioning as part of a national health care system.

American health care is regarded as being the most inefficient, and the most expensive on this planet.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub...spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations

I quote:

U.S. Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health

New Report Finds Americans Have Fewer Doctor and Hospital Visits Than People in Other Nations; Outsized Spending Likely a Result of More Technology, Higher Prices For Care and Prescriptions Drugs

 

[Benvolio]

This is rather pedantic for in all universal health care schemes on this planet the user pays through contributions to a national insurance fund, or through specific insurance funds that are functioning as part of a national health care system.

American health care is regarded as being the most inefficient, and the most expensive on this planet.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/pub...spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations

I quote:

In the US the cost will be shifted to a relatively small segment of society, with ever increasing government control. That is the way the political system works.
Part of the added expense results from the very large amounts spent by private industry, charities and the governments for research and development. You should hope that we do not move to socialized/universal care as that research and development will be sharply reduced.
Other than that, in rich countries, everything costs more. Under Trump, our median income is the highest in our history. In a relatively free society, that inevitably translates into higher prices. Freedom isn't free.

 

[KaraBulut]

...American health care is regarded as being the most inefficient, and the most expensive on this planet.

And a poor value for the cost. The US outcomes are not in the top tier. The costs are top tier.

We spend about $9,024 per person in the US- double what the Canadians pay.

Our death rates from preventable disease is 112 per 100,000 people. Canada is about 78 per 100,000.

Even after the ACA raised the percentage of insured, we still still have the highest uninsured rate of any first world country.

Source

 

[gsdx]

This is rather pedantic for in all universal health care schemes on this planet the user pays through contributions to a national insurance fund, or through specific insurance funds that are functioning as part of a national health care system.

No matter how many times we say that, it doesn't fit his agenda. He simply refuses to even try to 'get it'.

 

[Benvolio]

And a poor value for the cost. The US outcomes are not in the top tier. The costs are top tier.

We spend about $9,024 per person in the US- double what the Canadians pay.

Our death rates from preventable disease is 112 per 100,000 people. Canada is about 78 per 100,000.

Even after the ACA raised the percentage of insured, we still still have the highest uninsured rate of any first world country.

Source

You fail to include Medicaid as insurance.

 

[KaraBulut]

You fail to include Medicaid as insurance.

The statistics include Medicaid (and Medi-Cal).

The Medicaid programs are state-based and are means tested. All Americans do not automatically qualify for Medicaid benefits unless they fall below the FPL threshold for the means-test. In addition, only 31 states participated in the ACA Medicaid expansion, so states like Florida and Texas have a large number of employed people who make more than the allowable amount to be covered by their State's Medicaid program.

Among the short-comings of each of the continuing series of Republican repeal/replace failures is that each of the proposals will kick millions of citizens off of Medicaid which only worsens the existing problem.