Hear me out

[KingofFaeries]

K I'm pretty sure that this is the first thread I have created on this site. And granted the subject is probably one I should wait on, but I can't.

Before posting this I did a search for pedophilla to know if any thread resembling the one that I'm about to talk about exsisted, as of yet none have, but I did glean some of your alls opinions on pedophilla. I know that this is a big issue for the gay community, and no body wants to be associated with Michael Jackson, or the catholic priests. But that's not what I want to talk about.

What do you guys, and in your experience other people feel about a relationship with a younger (below age of consent) and a older man? I'm not talking about a relationship like being raped over and over again. I'm talking about a loving relationship between a teen and a man.

Also I always bring this up when I discuss this subject but it never seems to get me anywhere. In the times where the Roman empire was strong, it was widely accepted that a family member or very close family friend would take a child as they entered into adult hood. (Adulthood being 16 I believe) Where a man would take a boy and a woman would take a girl, and each would teach their charge, the joys of their own sex, as well as that of the opposite sex. This created a very open society when it came to issues of sex. And while this would not be the most ideal for 2006 it's something to think about. Roman children weren't traumatized they were normal. And they had more knowledge about themselves and the opposite sex, than American schools teach in their sex ed classes.

Now I'm not saying rewrite the laws against pedophillies, but I'm saying maybe we should take them on a case by case basis. Yes you will find that most of the current pedophillies deserve the punishment because they forced themselves on their younger counterpart, but is this because they are forced to hide? to be ashamed of themselves? because children are taught that if an adult ever wants to teach you something, or tells you it's ok to jack off, that they are molesting you and need to spend the rest of their lives in prision? It is my opinion that if the courts, actually considered the minor's point of view in the relationship and listened with an open mind to the man/woman's point of view, that maybe 1/3 of the people in prision for pedophillia would not be in prision. And there's a chance that both the minors and the men/women would still be happy today.

Oh and I posted it in this section, because I don't want people threatening each other with the removal of genetalia, I just want this to be an intelligent exchange of opinions on a subject. A tender subject but a subject none the less. Also I posted it here, because it has very little to do with sex, and a lot to do with relationships.

 

[CGHJ]

That's not pedophilia, that's pederasty.

However, you can't judge people today by what worked back then. Societal mores are different today. Back then you could also use christians as torches in the colliseum.

Besides, a true pederastuc relationship today would have to be between like a colonel or above in the military, or a senator, or someone equally high-ranking. That person would have to take the younger man in in public and with the consent of the parents. The mentor would then be responsible for the boys college, getting him started in business, and teaching him all the finer points of life, including women. Although there was some sexual contact in a pedersatic relationship, there was no gay sex, as sucking cock and taking it up the ass were still considered wrong even back then (or at least, officially...you can't tell me people didn't get naughty when they were alone). Their idea of a good time was the top slid his cock between the bottom's legs. Gay sex was considered feminizing and that was held to be unnatural...what they did was more like cock-worship.

Even back then if you decided to take a young boy as your protoge, well, you wouldn't be able to, cuz no one would let their kid go off with you. Gay sex between a common older man and a common younger boy would have been considered just as much pedophilia back then as it is today.

So no, I have to disagree that anyone in jail for pedophilia should be let go. Pederasty was an institution back then, it has no current analog, any more than we think it's OK for 13 year olds to get married...and that's pederasty, not pedophilia, which is just as wrong now as it was back then.

 

[bluedragon4]

i don't even see what is attractive about kids and why anyone would want that. what do they have to offer? can a 16 year old really be that interesting? i'm 33 now and my bf is 25 and we met when he was 22 and even that was way to young for me. i always dated older guys but he was very persistant and won me over but let me tell you we still have issues cause he is now only 25.i love him dearly but i still find myself looking at guys past 35 and i barely ever notice guys in their 20's. not cause they aren't cute but because they just aren't that interesting(plus i love me some crows feet and chest hair)and don't use that roman times shit cause that won't hold up in court.i think guys who keep getting older but their attraction stays with a certain age group that they are no where near should seek help with finding out why that is.let them poor kids be! don't ruin their lives cause your horny or messed up.

 

[3nipples]

I have my strong doubts about the correctness of your historical interpretation, I have certainly never come across any such reference in my reading about ancient Rome, but regardless of what might have happened then, I don't accept it today.

 

[KingofFaeries]

adidas there are men, who would not just dump their boy as he got older, ther are some that would stay with them. Granted not many but some none the less.

blue likewise, there are men who have and always will be attracted to men in their (enter age here) Would you advise them to seek professional help, if they always loved men in their 40's when they were in their 20's and then when they were in their 60's it was the same?

nipples, my historical accuracy is probably off. I don't really have very good memory, but I remember reading it a few years ago, when I read every book about homosexuality I could. Maybe... Oh right I think that's what I was talking about. At the time of the publishing of some book, can't member the name been MANY(3-4) years, but it said something about a tribe in new guinea where they did what I said. Maybe I was thinking about that. *shrug* I don't really know. I've read it somewhere about some culture. Helpful ain't I lol.

 

[KingofFaeries]

It is my opinion that if the courts, actually considered the minor's point of view in the relationship and listened with an open mind to the man/woman's point of view, that maybe 1/3 of the people in prision for pedophillia would not be in prision. And there's a chance that both the minors and the men/women would still be happy today.

this thread has long since died, so sorry for resurrecting it, but in my search for something I said awhile ago i stumbled upon it again.

while I may have been overly generous with a 1/3 portion of those convicted of pedophilia it doesn't change the basic feeling behind it. Perhaps 1/8 or even 1/10 wouldn't have been sent to prision.

Also a good portion of the some of men that love their boys as they grow and don't just move on tend to be the ones that don't get sent to jail. Because in most instances where a man/woman/thing is accused of pedophilia it is because the child or children have rightly gone to their parents or another trusted figure and told them what happened.

 

[SantaCBear]

There is something emotionally aberrant with the adult in this type of 'relationship.'

 

[rareboy]

adidas there are men, who would not just dump their boy as he got older, ther are some that would stay with them. Granted not many but some none the less.

References please. Since you are wanting to pausit an argument that is apparently cloaked in 'research', you're going to have to start to give proper references for your citations of facts or we're all going to think that you're blowing smoke out your ass..

This smacks of the type of argument people use when they are just looking for justification for what they are about to do, or rationalizing what they have done.

You have this unbelievably naive romantic view of historical relationships, seen through the lens of apologist historians. What about the households where slave children were sexually abused and exploited by their masters, able to be put to death for any pretext?

Romans used to also slaughter thousands upon thousands of animals and people for public amusement in the arena as well. Are you also recommending that we adopt this into our society as well. You see, the problem with the argument you present is that it doesn't reflect the whole of the times and mores. You don't seem to understand the relative values that Romans, for instance, placed on human life.

If you really want an intelligent discussion on this topic, I think you need to do more research and construct a more academically sound argument.

Otherwise, the whole thing reads like 'Would it be okay for me to fuck a 14 year old?'

...oh, and bear in mind that old Greek saying:

' For children.... a woman, for love... a young boy, but for pure pleasure, nothing beats a melon.'

 

[G-Lexington]

I feel dumb joining in to a conversation a year late, but since it was resurrected, here's my take.

>>>What do you guys, and in your experience other people feel about a relationship with a younger (below age of consent) and a older man? I'm not talking about a relationship like being raped over and over again. I'm talking about a loving relationship between a teen and a man.

There's no difference.

It's called the "age of consent" for a reason. People below that age are considered too immature to make drastic, life-changing decisions. This refers not only to who they go to bed with, but also things like buying a house or signing a contract. To a kid below the age of consent, every adult basically is in a position of power over them. Because of that, they cannot enter into a sexual relationship with anybody over that age as an equal partner. The older person is in charge. And because of that, it's far too easy for the power to be abused. It doesn't matter if the kid THINKS, SAYS, and even BELIEVES with all his heart that this is what he wants. The same kid can't sign a recording contract, either. And for precisely the same reasons.

Lex