Hello from Diane

[diane06]

I'm just stopping by to say hi and give you all an update since there were several here that told me to come back and let you all know how I am doing. As I type this I wonder why you'd even care. lol, but oh well here I am!

It's been three months since I found out my husband was having anonymous sex with men. He is with his second therapist and seems to like him very much. He says that this guy seem to know what he is talking about, and he makes it easy for my husband to be able to talk to him. His therapist told him that he doesn't think he is gay, but is trying to find acceptance from a man/father? ...something he never got from his alcoholic and abusive dad. A lot has come out about how his dad would beat him naked, while the mom watched on and did nothing but voice a weak "thats enough dear" from time to time...because she was afraid of getting her ass beat too! I told my husband that if she was any kind of mom she would have taken that beating for him. Needless to say his childhood was worse than I previously knew. His dad is dead so I can't bitch him out and his mother is too wrapped up in her other sons life to care a bit about my husband so we have basically cut all ties. She didn't even bother to call when it was in the newspaper that he was arrested in a gay sting. I guess that tells you something about her. I say good riddance to bad rubbish!

Anyway he is doing his therapy each week and seems to look forward to these sessions. I guess thats a good sign. He also told me that he feels free from his compulsions for the first time since they started. So......how does that make me feel? Not any better. I don't feel that freedom and the sense that things are going to get better as he does; primarily because I know he's cheated on me. Not just once, not just a few times but many times and I feel like our entire marriage has been a lie. Sometimes when I look at him sleeping beside me I want to smash his face in, other times I feel sorry for him and all that he's been through. I believe that he is sincere in being regretful for hurting me and his actions in our marriage, but that doesn't take away the pain. I found a counselor that spent the better part of two sessions telling me how he was a cheater, liar, perverted etc so I ditched her. I already knew he was a liar and cheater. I didn't need her telling me that. The therapist that my husband sees recommended that I see his wife who is also a therapist. So I am waiting for her to call me back to set up an appointment. I am not sure what therapy will do for me if anything because it seems to me nothing will ever take away my pain of knowing in the end I just wasn't enough for him. And I'll know that my marriage to him isn't any more special (like I thought it was) than any other marriage where cheating happened. So yeah I am still pretty much fucked up from all this.

I did join a support group for women with bi or gay husbands. I still am not sure if that is where I belong but I guess it is close as it gets. I did meet two other women that their situation is very close to the same as my husbands and mine.

All things considered I still have no idea what will happen. He signed over all that we own to me because he said that if I do decide to divorce him I need a way to support myself (we own a small business) I have the signed papers stating it all goes to me but I never filed it. Part of me wants him and part of me is full of anger toward him. I don't know if those feelings will ever change. ....or the fact that I still love him with all my heart, thats why it still hurts so much.

Hopefully if I come back in six months or a year things will be better.

 

[sixthson]

....or the fact that I still love him with all my heart, thats why it still hurts so much.

I think the above is your truth. You do love him with all your heart.

Also, I think you are still angry with him and not ready to forgive him. I don't think this is an unreasonable way for you to feel.

It has only been 3 months and you need more time and healing. Only you know if you are ever willing to forgive him, but it is something that you will have to decide. And a decision it is...not a feeling.

I think therapy, both group and individual, is right for you. The more you discuss it and have it out in the open, the less raw it will be for you. It would appear he is doing all he can to prove to you his remorse. There are no overnight cures, but time and communication is the path to healing.

I would imagine a very real danger is for you becoming bitter. If that happens, you will resent him forever and will probably block your own well being.

I wish there was something we could say to make it easier, but it is painful beyond my understanding, in many ways.

Hang in there, Diane.

 

[Eagle653]

Diane, thanks for the update. We've been thinking about you and your husband and hoping things were working themselves out.

As you know, your husband needs to continue to talk things out. It looks like he's making headway. I think he needs to follow up on this "father replacement" theory, though. Many men do not have fathers, or male bonding figures whom they hold in respect as an older/wiser male on which to model and pattern appropriate male roles. Yet, they do not replace that by masturbating with men in parks, either. That whole theory leaves me empty and I think he needs to pursue that and really dig to the bottom of it.

As for you, I think it's excellent if you could see his wife. They are obviously working in tandem, and that could really help both of you get on the same wave-length. In fact, that's one of the best of both worlds. Take the opportunity and do it.

The importance of you following through with this is that you need to be heard. Your feelings need to be voiced. Right now, you are feeling betrayed, and lied to, and cheated upon. You are also feeling love and sympathy for elements of your husband's past. These very mixed feelings need to be untangled so that you can get the right emotions in the right box for the right set of facts (if that makes sense). It's fine to feel all of these things, but in perspective to what's really happening. For example, one lie does not a "liar" make. One action that can be labeled "cheating" does not necessarily a "cheater" make. And so on.

This ordeal has been traumatic and has shaken, to your core, the faith and belief in the person closest to you. It takes a while to digest all this. But, (pardon the cliche) time will even this out and give you a realistic perspective. Just don't keep it bottled in, though. Voice your rage and your shock and your doubts and your love. A guided therapist will help you, enormously, in sorting all this out.

Good luck to both of you. Thanks again for coming back and keeping us up to date. Please continue to do so!

 

[G-Lexington]

Hi, diane! Thanks for stopping back and letting us know how things are going!

It sounds like your husband's moving forward, which is great. I'm glad you've joined the support group. At least there, you have people who are in similar situations, so you can talk to them and discuss what you feel and what you might want to do.

Do give this other therapist a shot. The fact that you still have this "I want to hit him/I feel sorry for him" see-saw going on means you still have sorting out to do. The therapist can probably help you do that.

Although you certainly don't sound like everything is sunshine lollipops and rainbows, you at least sound somewhat more resigned to what happened - more accepting of it. It sounds like you're making strides, as well.

Honestly, I'd sign that paperwork. Perhaps you won't need it, but perhaps you might.

Best of luck to you - and do keep us posted!

Lex

 

[josher]

Diane I have been following your and your husband's threads. I'm glad to hear that you are both working on therapy, even though it's taking time for both of you to find the right therapist.

I agree with the comments above, but there's one nagging question I have about your husband's current therapist.

Does the therapist believe that being gay is a naturally occuring phenemenon or does he believe it's a curable disorder?

Some therapists still believe the latter even though it's a position the American Psychological Association no longer holds. This is particularly true of many (not all) "Christian" psychotherapists and others who allow their religious beliefs to color their theraputic practice.

If he does think of gayness as a "choice" which can be overcome by therapy, he could be just telling your husband what he wants to hear ("You aren't gay.") just because he doesn't believe anyone is really gay.

If you do see his wife, ask her whether or not she believes being gay is a naturally occuring pheneminon or whether she thinks it's a curable disorder. Chances are she and her husband would hold the same views on the subject.

I'm not a therapist and I certainly have no idea whether your husband is gay, bi or straight, but, if he's dealing with a therapist who doesn't believe people can be naturally gay (even if nurture also has something to do with it), he may not be really helping your husband, as much as your husband thinks he is.

My best wishes to both of you. I hope that you both are able to continue to mend your fractured relationship.

 

[diane06]

to answer a few questions and comments.......

Josh, I'm not really sure what his therapist think. If I understand my h correctly his therapist doesn't believe he is gay at all. When he told me that I said that straight men do not suck dicks no matter what....there has to be something there. But I also know there is the Kinsey scale also. And yes it would be something to discuss with his wife. My H also wants to ask his therapist if we can get some joint counseling with him. I told him I would be willing to do that but I feel like right now he needs the individual counseling.

Lex, thanks for the advice about the paperwork and yes you are right, I do have a lot of sorting out to do. I am not sure I'd call it resigned to what has occurred, it might be more like I really don't have a choice in being resigned to what has occurred. For me acceptance is the key to forgiveness.........I think..if I can just get to the point of accepting it, then possibly I can get past it. We'll see.

Hey Averageguy, I flip flop back and forth with the father figure, male acceptance theory. One of the gals that post on the support board sent me a link to a website of a gay therapist in I think New York. He gave the same theory for straight men who have sex with other men. I know everyone takes childhood abuse in different ways........anyway the jury is still out on that one.

His lies I am sorry to say hasn't been just one lie. I think when he married me he was lying to me. The reason I say this is because he hid a part of his life, it was like he had another secret life. One of the reasons I have not left him is because I do believe him when he tells me that the things he did was because of compulsions that he fought with for years. It wasn't like he saw someone he liked and went after that person to have sex with. He had these compulsions that drove him. Ai yi yi......I hate it when I think about it. I hate it when I see in my mind what he was doing with those men.

Sixthson, you said something that I have thought myself. The danger of becoming so bitter that nothing could ever be good again. I agree fully and I know I have to keep my anger in check.

When he comes home from his therapy he sits in the kitchen while I cook dinner and tells me about the session. Sometimes I get pissed just listening to it but more often I discuss it and try to understand. I guess the reason I sometimes get mad, besides him putting me in this position is because he talks about it and the things he's done like he is talking about what was on tv last night. For me it IS still raw and painful, for him it is talking about something he has been accustom to for years.

You know you guys are some pretty good guys. For some reason I feel more support here than on the other board.
((((hugs)))) to you all.
Diane

 

[backpacker]

Diane, I'm glad to see you back on JUB. I thought about you a number of times and was hoping everything was OK. The posters above all have given good advice and there isn't much I could add to it.

Your husband seems to be on the right track, although I don't know if I buy the whole male acceptance deal. Keep in mind, you are hearing what the therapist said second hand. Human nature is to latch onto what you want to hear and discount what you don't want to hear. The therapist could have brought up the acceptance thing as a possibility and your husband latched onto it. The joint counseling sessions may be a good idea.

You should definitely see the second therapist (wife). You are still struggling with all this, which is perfectly understandable. The right therapist can help. Kudos for joining the support group.

I wish you the best. Hugs to you!!!

 

[rareboy]

Everything that everyone else has said.

I think that if you find the right counsellor, they are not there to take away your pain and feelings but to help you work your way through them in your own time and your own way.

As everyone knows the opposite of love is not hate, just as the opposite of hate is not love. The opposite to both of these emotions is indifference. You don't sound anywhere near indifference.

I have to agree, that sexual relations with men is not a usual outcome of being beaten by a child; but the therapist will be helping him to work his way through this. If this is an opening for him to come to honest terms with himself, then good.

Also, good to hear that you have joined a group and are trying to make something good come out of all of this for yourself. I think we all think you're great....right down to channeling your anger into helping him talk through his therapy sessions. Just make sure you retain an outlet to decompresss every once in awhile.

..and as always, hugs to both.

 

[diane06]

Vetteboi, thanks for the kind words...I do really appreciate it, and I am somewhat in agreement with the gay or not gay thing. I know one thing, if I spend one more year with him and he decides he is gay and can't give up what he was doing I'm gonna be one pissed of woman! lol

Rareboy, thank you for your thoughts as well. If someone is bi, and leans more to women than men, do you think they can be happy with that? I do love him but I don't want to spend the next ten years wondering if I can trust him. I also worry that after some more years together he'll decide he wants something else in life that I obviously can't give him, and I'll have wasted more of my life. I will be out of town the rest of the day and its really the first time (as strange as this sounds) that I'll have been away from him since this all "came out". Will he stay home or will he sneak off? SEE? This for me is the hardest...I don't want someone I can't trust. Will I ever regain that trust?

 

[sixthson]

Diane, I get the sense that your struggle has more to do with the homosexuality than the cheating. Does being gay or bi somehow seem dirtier to you? Afterall, he could have been cheating on you with women and they would have called it an addiction or something. It still would have been cheating, right? You got hit with everything and not just an unfaithful husband. You have a lot with which to deal.

If you are planning to live in the kind of fear that says he can never be trusted, you might as well plan to live a solitary life. Any man could cheat on you, just like any woman could cheat on her man. How do you know what anyone will do in the future?

As for the question of whether a bi can every be fully satisfied with one gender...who knows, but people make choices to be faithful to their partners, not just bisexuals.

Only time will prove if he can be trusted. He may always ask himself if you will ever fully love him again or if you ever fully forgave him. He will know that by living a life with you, just as you will know if you can trust him the same way.

There may be some questions for which you never have answers. You can't torment yourself with this. All you can do is decide if you will love him, will forgive him and will trust him...then live your life accordingly.

 

[mpdan]

Diane! I have thought of you often. Thank-you for the update. In my time I have been through a fair amount of Psychologists and Psychiatrists, they are just human so keep searching for the one that provides insight, security, and just the right push that enables you to view things from a different angle. I'm for seeing the therapists' wife. In the past I have also been in both individual and couples therapy at the same time - this is really not uncommon. One therapist could tag off the other to provide insight as to why you or your husband made a particular statement, etc. It could shorten the amount of time it takes him to unearth the true root of the problem. I know it did for me -hence the reason I'm here.

My therapist thinks I'm not Gay? Don't be so quick to judge the therapist. Only your husband attended that session, so we're really not sure under what content that statement was made. A good therapist needs to lay the groundwork first. So far he uncovered how cruel your father in law was, it sounds like he's starting to dig deeper...

Hang in there, you both remain in my thoughts.

 

[diane06]

thanks mpdan, I'll keep that in mind. I am actually anxious to see the therapist. I thought about a lot of what happened today and I was alone in my car. When my mind is not kept busy it thinks way too much. Today was not a good day.

sixthonson, No I am thinking if it was a woman that he was seeing on a regular basis I would have already packed his bags. Its not that I think his betrayal is not worse or is worse that if he was seeing a woman, its that I hear, really, really hear him when he describes his compulsions. I am the one who termed it compulsions by what he told me and what I read about sexual compulsions. His therapist actually called it addiction. When reading about the two problems, sexual compulsions and sexual addictions I don't see a lot of differences. He fails both test miserably. I am not excusing his behavior by saying he couldn't help himself, because to me its just like booze or drugs, the final choice was his and he is the one who made that choice.....to sucumb to the compulsion or not.

I don't want to live my life with him without trust. I just don't know how to put that mistrust behind me yet. I hate it. God knows I hate it. I just got home a little while ago and he is in bed. By the time I got home I didn't want to see his face because I had to drive past the place where he would meet men. Before I got there I bought him a birthday gift........and that pissed me off.......lol See? I am messed up in the head. I've always trusted him, I even trusted my first husband, jealousy and that kind of thing seemed silly too me. Now I worry when my h is not with me.

I just feel like I lost something very precious to me and I don't think I'll ever find it again.

 

[boy0boy]

Hmm it seems to me that you really should seperate based on everything here. You said that if it was a woman, you would have told him to pack his bags long ago.

It just seems likely that he is gay to an extent, especially if it was compulsively and frequent. Sometimes accepting that there is a hole that can never be full to the same extent is the only way to move on. I'm glad that I get to hear the wife's side of this type of situation, although I'm young I've had some experiences with this situation myself. In one situation my friend had stood by her husband for years after he had been caught by the police for those acts and was aware of his "compulsions" to meet up with other men. She stood by him, and you know what. He was not going to change, and they got a divorce. No matter how much she tried staying and part of it was for children, he was who he was.


If he is staying only to please you, and you are staying only to help and support him, you both would be better off dealing with the pain and healing. Like when you rip a bandaid off rather than pulling it slowly to its eventual consequence. It will hurt like hell, but you wont have to live with the constant fear of trust. Another thing I've witnessed from my own parents and other family having to do with heterosexual affairs. You honestly think there will come a day when you don't question it to yourself at all without a shadow of a doubt?


I wish nothing but the best for you.

 

[diane06]

boyoboy.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you say may be true. It makes me want to cry again, but don't think I haven't thought the same thing myself. But I do think there is a difference between someone who has compulsions and someone who just wants sex without strings. I think men or women with compulsions have a mental problem. Gay or bi or not, he can have a mental problem of compulsions or addictions or both,,,,,if there is a difference. Just to clarify, if he was having sex with a woman I wouldn't look at it as a mental problem because if he had compulsions to have sex with a woman.......well he'd already have me?....maybe I am looking at this wrong. I don't know.

I don't think he is staying just for me. I think he wants to stay married to me. I think right now he never wants to have sex with anyone else again. But will that compulsion come back? I don't know. He swears he'll tell me if it does, but I wonder if it would be too hard for him to tell me.

thank you for your comments anyway.
Diane

 

[Eagle653]

If someone is bi, and leans more to women than men, do you think they can be happy with that?

Yes, I do. I've seen it often.

In many large cities, there is a group called GAMMA (Gay and Married Mens Association). It's a good group and one dedicated to sorting out all the trust and needs issues. Sometimes the couple survives and thrives, and sometimes they don't.

What you're describing, in terms of trust and anger, are very similar to what other wives express when their husband is out to them (either voluntarily or involuntarily). Couples have a way of working this out and coming to philosophical conclusions that are right for them. And, one couple's solution or conclusion may not work for another's. What's interesting is all the ways couples approach this.

There are many married men on this board, men who have been happily married (and I don't use the word "happily" loosely--I mean just that) for years and their wives know of their husband's attraction to other men. In many cases, these men never act on these attractions out of respect for either their vows, or understandings they came to with their wives. Sometimes, they suffice to just view porn, sometimes just to belong to an organization like GAMMA to be around men (nonsexually) in the same boat. Sometimes, their attractions are so mild that they can dismiss them. Everyone's different.

It takes a while to regain trust, even with "understandings" and "deals" and what have you. It takes a while because of how you found out, and the shock of it all. But, trust can be regained, if your husband is, ultimately, trust-worthy. Give it time and continue to be seeking and exploring and thinking. That's how you heal.

One thing that a good therapist should guide you through is figuring out your value system: What's sacred? For example, is it critical that he be completely faithful to you and not engage in sex with a man ever again? If so, state that and stick to it. For some wives, that's the case and it's a condition on staying together. For others, what's sacred is their bedroom and not having sex with another woman. So, in other words, they de-facto, give permission for their husbands to express that need, say, one day a month, but not in their marital bed and not with another couple. For others, the arrangements are even looser. You can see the slippery slopes here, for sure. But, depending on the relationship, and what the needs are of the two people, people come up with some clever arrangements sometimes. What I'm saying is that you need to know where you're drawing the line in the sand, and express that clearly when the time comes.

Lastly, know that your husband is multi-faceted, like we all are. His behavior of masturbating with men in a park is one small part of who he is. Granted, it's a big deal and shocking to say the least. But, you fell in love with him for a reason (probably several). He's still those things too. And, he also certainly loves you a great deal. That hasn't changed--in fact, this ordeal has probably intensified his love for you. As you deal with the trust aspect, try to also keep a finger on the pulse of the underlying love.

My thoughts are with you, and I'm pulling for both of you. He's lucky to have you for a wife. Many wives would not be so thoughtful and try to understand as you are. I hope you get some peace of mind soon.

 

[boy0boy]

I felt uneasy about posting on here, but thought if anything it would be another perspective for you to have. I really feel bad for having sounded so negative.

I have just seen a lot of this recently and felt like getting some of my thoughts out. But I really don't know your own situation. I've come to understand only one truth in all this: It isn't an easy road. For both people involved. I hope you get some clarity and resolve no matter what outcome.