Help me build a workout plan

[timetogetinshape]

OK, I've lurked for a while (and asked a couple personal throwaway questions), and noticed that a few people have done long workout journals that others respond to. I actually wrote this up on another website that's more fitness oriented, but because of my big wall of text, I'm not sure how many people will actually read through. (Same on this site, actually, but two communities could be better than one). Dunno if I'll stick to an online journal on here or on there (maybe both!), probably depends if anyone braves this big mass of paragraphs I've given you.

There are a few questions at the end for knowledgeable people.

---

So, after a few months of living in a gay ghetto and being surrounded by gorgeously muscular men, I finally bit the bullet and signed up for a gym membership. I'm 24 years old, I've always been very skinny (6ft0 or 6ft1, ~155lb) and I've more or less never lifted weights before. Everyone has to start somewhere, right?

What I have done, however, is read for months on various websites and online forums that the best way to, well, start building strength is via the program outline by Mark Ripptoe's Starting Strength book (or similar programs). I decided, in particular, to go with the Stronglifts 5x5 program instead of Mark Ripptoe (basically because of my mostly uninformed idea that a power clean would be potentially more dangerous than a barbell row; aside from this variation, they're basically the exact same thing).

The gym I signed up with gives one free session with a trainer, and I wanted him to show me the proper form of each of the five exercises in the program. It turns out, though, that while these Starting Strength programs may call themselves beginner or novice programs, they're not REALLY, not for people like me -- you likely have to have at least a little base of muscle. The trainer in particular had me doing 15 squats with a 45lb bar, and I couldn't. (I realize in retrospect that 15 squats in a set is considerably harder than 5 reps, but after the Stronglifts' couple of sets of 5, much less five sets of 5, I would be dead.)

In the end, I went down to a 30lb bar and did 15 squats (well, squats plus raising the bar above my ahead in one movement -- not sure what you'd call that -- overhead press?), then 15 slow pushups (after the overhead press, that was brutal, and I though I could do 15 pushups for sure), then 15 bodyweight chinups on a bench press bar (I'm not sure what you'd call that, but not a regular chipup on a bar over your head, but lying horizontal on the ground and the pulling up), then 15 burpees. Then I did another round of about 10-12 reps, and I was BEAT. (In addition, my squats in this round, and probably the earlier ones, were of such horrible form that they probably don't count.)

Not just physically beat, though certainly that (I basically couldn't walk down the steps because of my legs), but a bit mentally beat as well (all those muscular guys in the free weight room... and me). Here are two pics of me from right after working out... it's all blurry because I literally couldn't hold the phone steady, my arm was so tired.

What is my main goal? I guess to gain muscle mass -- except at this point, after today's failure, I basically want to just get the very simple base of fitness which would allow me to do an actual weightlifting program. Why am I working out? I'd say 75% vanity (I want to look good naked), 15% health (never having worked out is not going to be good as I get older), 10% discipline (as a self-improvement thing -- I think just putting your mind to doing something difficult and then DOING IT is good for the soul -- builds not just muscle but character... yes, I'm that pretentious).

What do I want from here? Mainly, I'm planning on using this thread as a workout journal (if that's okay?). Doubt anyone has read down this far, but if you have, my other question is about what exercises I should do, now that Stronglights 5x5 is basically not happening. Does the following sequence make sense?

Squat + Overhead press (if there's a name for this, let me know)
Push ups
Pull ups on the bench press bar (same here)
Jumping jacks
Burpees

If so, how many sets of how many reps should I be doing?

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

 

[silverbelt]

Ok, I'm gonna start by saying that, while I've been working out for 8 years, I'm not a muscle god. I started off overweight, and while I've lost all the extra weight (albeit too quickly), I'm still lacking definition and muscle. My advice comes from years of failing, with periods of success, having tried a LOT in those 8 years.

Ok first of all, your body looks PERFECT to gain some very attractive muscle. You're already very spunky Keep in mind as well that you're quite lean, so you'll start seeing changes very quickly.

A good way to improve your fitness quickly is to give gym classes a shot. I'm not sure if Les Mills classes exist in the states (or perhaps they started there, not sure), but classes like Body Pump, Body Step, spinning (which is cycling); they're all designed for any fitness level. Body Pump is still a favourite of mine, and I did it almost exclusively for about a year with some good results. And in case you're worried about working out with other people, even across two different gyms, I was the only male there, and the only person under 40.

If you're worried about motivation (which I was after a few months of no gym), give Fitocracy a shot. You sign up (which you can do with your Facebook account), log your workouts, get points, level up. Great way to keep track of your workout history, and follow other people doing the same as you. If you decide to sign up, I'll follow you

I had a trainer twice, for about 12 weeks each time, and the results were great, got down to about 11% body fat, but the whole ordeal is very expensive.

This time around, I timeboxed my expectations by following a workout I found on the net called Visual Impact. So far, so good. Heading into my fourth week and I'm ecstatic with the results. Watch this guy's videos and see if it's something you wanna try.

I've heard of Stronglifts 5x5 but never tried it, and truth be told, if Visual Impact doesn't work out, I'll give 5x5 a go. I know though that the guy who came up with 5x5 has taken a tonne of people to championships, winning gold medals all over the place. [EDIT] The exercises you listed seem to neglect your arms a bit. As for reps, I think with bodyweight exercises you'd be looking to fatigue yourself at the end of each set. So pushups until you can't do another full pushup, etc. For squats and press, you can either go light for 12-15 reps, or heavy for <6 reps.[/EDIT]

Some more wisdom: don't struggle through an exercise just to say "I benched 30kg". Make sure you maintain proper technique all the way through, else you may be missing out on all the benefits or worse, injuring yourself. That said, feel free to lift really light until you feel comfortable with the motions. Squats aren't easy, but everyone around you in the gym will make it look that way.

I've written quite a bit already, so I'll stop there. If you want more advice, let me know, I'm happy to pass on what I've learnt. And yep, you can use this thread as a journal if you want, others have been doing it, though I'd say Fitocracy would better meet that need for you.

Hope that helps

 

[timetogetinshape]

Thanks for the long and detailed response!

The Visual Impact stuff sounds interesting, though I think I'm not yet at the point where it is meaningful for me to choose between big bulk and more angular pleasing muscle -- I just need *some* muscle to start.

While you say the exercises I've listed neglect my arms, I actually felt a burn most in my arms (well, except in my legs, from the squats). The push-ups and the overhead press in the middle of the squats worked my arms very well. I know, obviously, that pushups are supposed to work your chest, but in the past (and today) I've only felt it in my arms -- I guess my arms are particularly weak.

Bodyweight exercise -- until fatigue. Squats -- go heavy for up to 6 reps or light for 12-15. Got it.

(I always read that to build muscle, lower reps/higher weight is better. Should I do that? Perhaps it really doesn't matter too much at this point, as long as I'm doing them.)

Fitocracy isn't open to the public, so if you could PM me an invite, I'd be grateful. I think I might like to continue here or at the other site I posted this (realjock.com) rather than Fitocracy, because the encouragement from the gay crowd in particular might feel good. But I'll see exactly what the site offers and then decide.

 

[KaraBulut]

You have what would be classic "swimmers" body type- broad shoulders, narrow chest, long arms, long legs.

Your challenge- as you have discovered- is the weakness of all guys who grow up skinny- weak legs and a somewhat weak ass. It's because- at 155 pounds- you don't have to generate much work to move your body weight.

Here's the deal: for a guy like you, any resistance program that works major muscle groups is going to do the trick. But you're going to have to eat a lot of food and you're going to have to workout very hard. That's the bad news.

The good news is that if you do this now, you're going to look fantastic well into your forties when your hunky friends begin to fall apart.

The sets vs reps thing is alway a big question. Since you're a novice, don't worry about that now. What you need to worry about is building strength and range of motion. Why? Because you're skinny and new to working out and you want to strengthen all the major muscle groups in your body so that you don't injure yourself. Focus on lifting as much as you can as many time as you can. You may start being exhausted at 8 reps and 2 sets but work you way up to 12-15 reps x 3 sets, then increase the weight and start over again. You'll build strength and tone quickly and then you're going to plateau and the weight gains will come slower.

You may want to use a leg press machine and do lunges unless you have a spot for squats. Add leg extensions and stair climbing to build strength in your legs. Do core exercises to strengthen your spine. Then start doing squats again when you've built a little more strength.

Probably the workout thread you want to check out is blackholesun's thread- he was one of the smaller frame guys. Codeerror's thread also may apply since he's a taller lean guy who has to work to add mass, too.

And congrats on taking that step and joining a gym.

 

[timetogetinshape]

Here's the deal: for a guy like you, any resistance program that works major muscle groups is going to do the trick. But you're going to have to eat a lot of food and you're going to have to workout very hard. That's the bad news.

The good news is that if you do this now, you're going to look fantastic well into your forties when your hunky friends begin to fall apart.

Any suggestions (or good threads to look at) about how to eat large quantities of food on a budget?

 

[silverbelt]

RE: lower reps/higher weight, what I've been told lately is that will build muscle density, whereas higher reps/lower weight builds purely for size, not strength. As posted above, you could probably do either since you're starting out and just need to get used to the fact you're working out in the first place.

I've PM'd you an invitation to Fitocracy. There's a JUB group on there, but for the life of me it won't let me join

 

[KaraBulut]

Any suggestions (or good threads to look at) about how to eat large quantities of food on a budget?

I think blackholesun posted his diet plan. He had to work really hard to add muscle, so he included his diet plan. I haven't seen him on in a while but codeerror is still active and can probably provide some insight.

Your best bet is snack often with high protein, calorie dense food. Peanut butter is a great source of protein and calories. Cheese is also a great portable protein source (string cheese comes in sealed packs). You might also look at protein shakes- muscle milk for premix and whey powder for mix-it-yourself shakes- as an affordable way to add calories and protein between meals.

 

[silverbelt]

Agreed, shakes are a good way to get lots of protein, and if you shop around you can find protein powder for decent prices.

There are protein powders designed for fast weight gain. I used CytoGainer, which has a pretty good amount of protein per serve, low lactose, low fat and mixes really well. I got choc malt and choc mint, both tasted great, though mixing with water wasn't as good as skim or soy milk.

Protein bars are usually very high in sugar, but they're better than nothing when you're out and about.

I've done 3 meals a day, 6 meals a day, and now I'm giving intermittent fasting a shot. 6 meals a day was pretty stressful to manage (I had to set alarms on my phone for every 3 hours that just said "Eat"), but I have to say I did grow quite quickly (decent gains within 8 weeks, and that's when I hit my 11% body fat). Intermittent fasting though is proving to be just as effective so far, but I won't be sure for another month or so.

If you're into baking, make your own protein muffins. I tried the recipe with only minor changes and they tasted great. Keep 'em in the fridge though, they don't last long.

 

[Corny]

I've PM'd you an invitation to Fitocracy. There's a JUB group on there, but for the life of me it won't let me join

I have no notifications about any new applicants It is private though, so I am confused that anyone could find the group without an invitation. The group can now invite people to fitocracy, too - have a look at the thread, I updated the first post. Or just PM me with your fitocracy username and I will invite you.

 

[desertfox008]

Checkout bodybuilding.com They have great info on there. Great articles, vids, forum.

 

[timetogetinshape]

I don't think I'm going to end up using fitocracy... I think sites like these are enough "social media" encouragement.

So here's my "journal" for the day.

After the first (free) session with the trainer on Sunday, my body was aching all over, in particular my thighs -- I could barely walk *down* the stairs out of the gym. I certainly couldn't do a proper form squat (without holding any weight). Over the past two days, they've pretty much continued to ache with every step.

I went in to the gym tonight and tried to do some squats but basically couldn't (I've read that if your form is terrible, it's basically useless anyway?) Aside from that I did:

5 sets of 45 lb overhead press to exhaustion (this was about 2-3 reps generally)
5 sets of 55 lb bench press to exhaustion (about 10-12 reps)
Plus a few situps/crunches and a few reps on an abs machine, but I think they added up to almost nothing.

-------

I came into working out thinking "I'm going to do Stronglifts!" What I like about what I'm doing is I'm figuring out what I'm capable of and then can go from there -- since I'm at the beginning, it doesn't matter as much what I'm doing as long as I'm doing something.

My general plan from now will probably be:

5 sets of 45 lb overhead press until I can get >6 reps, at which point I'll go up in weight
5 sets of bench press, going up in weight until I hit ~6 reps at exhaustion
[Something to do with squats]
[Something to do with abs/core]

------

Please help me figure out those last two.

1) Presumably my legs will take a few days to recover and then I'll be able to do squats again -- but I'm slightly afraid I will have terrible form without really knowing it and therefore be doing useless (and possibly harmful) squats. Are there any other exercises that work the same muscles that I can substitute for squats until feel more confident that I can do them with any significant amount of weight?

2) What should I do for abs/core? Sit ups/crunches don't seem to work me much. Does an abs machine do much of anything worthwhile?

3) Is there anything else that I'm missing? (I figure arms aren't too important, because they'll get worked in bench press and overhead press. I don't know about back -- does that get worked in squats?)

--------

What I ate today:

Breakfast: Cup of coffee and blueberry muffin
Lunch: Turkey sandwich with yellow cheese, lettuce, tomato, onion, avocado, some sort of mayo-like sauce (not sure, I didn't prepare it)
Dinner: Two pieces of pan-fried fish with a red sauce, two fairly large servings of brown rice, one serving of collared greens, one serving of broccoli
Now: Microwaved pasta in pesto sauce (a frozen meal)

 

[KaraBulut]

1) Presumably my legs will take a few days to recover and then I'll be able to do squats again -- but I'm slightly afraid I will have terrible form without really knowing it and therefore be doing useless (and possibly harmful) squats. Are there any other exercises that work the same muscles that I can substitute for squats until feel more confident that I can do them with any significant amount of weight?

I mentioned this earlier but I wouldn't start a novice out with squats. They're a great exercise for lower body but they are dangerous for someone who is thin, doesn't have a spot and hasn't done lower body exercises in the past. Switch to dumbell squats, lunges and use a press machine until your legs get stronger.

2) What should I do for abs/core? Sit ups/crunches don't seem to work me much. Does an abs machine do much of anything worthwhile?

Abs can be boring if you're just doing situps/crunches. There's a lot of fun and different ways to do abs- like this or this or this.

3) Is there anything else that I'm missing? (I figure arms aren't too important, because they'll get worked in bench press and overhead press. I don't know about back -- does that get worked in squats?)

Arms are very important. You want to work biceps and triceps on opposite days. Presses are good but only work muscles in a single plane and tend to focus more on back and chest. You want to do exercises that work groups of muscles in tandem with full range of motion.

The next time before you go to the gym, go through a site like this one that has a basic beginner strength training split routine and plan what you're going to do.


On your diet, you're still getting most of your calories from carbs. You need to consume a small amount of protein with your meals or as a between meal snack.

 

[palemale]

Whatever happens, don't get discouraged! I had always been active, off and on, but didn't seriously work out until I passed my 40th birthday. I started with a trainer, just to learn good form and the right exercises. Decided to stay with the trainer. However, early on, I could barely finish an hour work out. He did kick my ass. But I would get light-headed and nearly pass out. Eventually, my cardio and strength got better (and I don't really do cardio). Now, I am strong, can do plenty of pushups, unassisted pull-ups, etc. Just keep at it.

 

[silverbelt]

At your gym, you should have a leg press machine, either seated or incline. It will give your quadriceps a workout just like squats, without worrying about balancing a bar on your back. You could also do leg extensions and should complement this with leg curls for your hamstrings.

Another word on squats, there's no reason you even need to use weights for squats right now. Just get used to the motion, keeping your arms tucked behind your back, or straight out in front for balance. You'll still get a burn in your legs after 12 reps or so, especially if you squat pretty low (so your thighs are parallel to the ground).

Abs can be really boring sometimes until you come across new exercise. Try the plank and its side variations. I used to do a superset of a flat plank and both side planks, holding each for 1 minute, which was quite good, though I never increased the time and hence didn't see much in the way of results. You'll also want to make sure you don't neglect your obliques (side abs), and that's where the side plank helps.

@Corny: I didn't realise groups could be private lol. I'll PM you.

 

[timetogetinshape]

Thurs:

Abs 5 sets (145lb I think?)
Lunges instead of squats, holding 10lb in each hand (could do more than this for sure), 5 sets of 5 reps
Overhead press 5 sets (45 lb, can't do more than a couple reps each set)
Bench press 5 sets (can do up to 85 lb or so, maybe more, if I'm doing 5 reps)

Going in tomorrow.

 

[timetogetinshape]

Abs 5x5 145lb
Legs 5x5 (I did two sets of lunges with 20 lbs and then three sets of bodyweight squats. I think I like the squats better, I'll do more of those and then work up in weight)
Bench Press 5x5 (2 at 95lb and then 3 at 85 lb)
Overhead press 5xexhaustion (45 lb, getting up to 5x5)

 

[KaraBulut]

Overhead press 5 sets (45 lb, can't do more than a couple reps each set)
Bench press 5 sets (can do up to 85 lb or so, maybe more, if I'm doing 5 reps)

If you're having trouble lifting to the full number of reps, drop the amount of weight that's you're lifting. It's very important at this point that you focus on technique and strengthening your muscles.

There's a chain of gyms that has a marketing angle as being a "Judgment Free Zone". There's some wisdom in that.

Weightlifting isn't a competitive sport. It's your personal best that matters. If you're having trouble pressing 45lbs, drop to 40 and focus on full range of motion and doing as many reps as you can. You'll find that you're going to make big strength gains in the next few months, so you have time. Eventually, you'll be able to lift 45lbs (and even more). But to make those strength gains, you've got to try to do as many reps as possible in proper form, as slow/steady as possible.

Don't be self-conscious about how much weight you're lifting. That will come in time as long as you're doing the exercises with proper form.

 

[timetogetinshape]

Abs 5x5 145lb
Lat Pulldowns 5xexhaustion 100
Bench 5x5 95 lb (for the first two), 85 (next three)
Overhead press 5x5 45-50lb
Squat 5x8-10 40lb

 

[timetogetinshape]

Went to the gym yesterday with my roommate, who in the past had worked out a lot though not so much recently. We did a lot of machines and stuff that he wanted me to do, and he wanted me to do squats at way higher weight than I could with decent form.... honestly I think it was largely a not-great session. I'd rather do a few simple lifts than a grab bag of machines to "confuse your muscles," which he acknowledged was probably as BS as it sounds, but still was basically championing...

 

[KaraBulut]

I'd rather do a few simple lifts than a grab bag of machines to "confuse your muscles," which he acknowledged was probably as BS as it sounds, but still was basically championing...

It's actually not BS but it's something that is more of a medium-level concept. You're still at more of a novice level- still working on the basics.

As you continue to lift, you will see big increases in your strength (how much weight your can lift) and your endurance (how many reps you can do). Then you'll hit a plateau where it's hard to jump to the next weight level.

When that happens, you can change to different exercises that work the same muscles in different ways and start the process again.

And working out with machines is not a bad idea either. It's a good way to add strength and have a structured program where you work different muscle groups on different days. Free weights are still preferred, however.