Help! My car broke down...

[versatastic]

So I ran over something on the highway today on my way to Costco, and I didn't think much of it. Nothing seemed wrong as I was driving, and nothing looked bad under the hood when I checked in the parking lot. The tires were fine and there was nothing dripping from under the engine. However, as I was driving home, I noticed my engine temp was all the way up to the big H! Still, the engine seemed to be ok and wasn't making any noise and I only had to go a couple more miles to get home. Then it just broke down altogether when I stopped at the light going into my apartment complex. OMG, why couldn't it just hold on for 2 more minutes?! The engine did turn on after the engine cooled a bit (~5 minutes), but quickly died again. After I pushed my car into my apartment complex, I popped the hood and the radiator cap wasn't even warm, but there was smoke coming from the oil cap on the engine block! I finally looked under the car, and OMG the radiator is smashed in the middle! It looks as though I hit a pole or something, but only the radiator got any damage. The bumper looks fine except the middle clip holding bottom flap is gone.


So anyway, do you guys know if there's any serious damage to my engine?

How hard is it to replace a radiator? I have a service manual for my car, 2003 Honda Civic, and it looks to be pretty straight forward, just remove the bumper and old radiator, replace it, and put everything back in the reverse order. Seems simple enough, but of course everything seems simple when you look at a simple diagram. I got a quote of $150 for a new radiator for delivery on Monday morning. I'm sure that's a lot less than what the dealer would charge. I'll have to do it myself, though, since all my mechanically enclined friends have moved away.

But what if the fans are damaged somehow? They looked to be blowing pretty fast while the key was still in the ignition, but who knows what other damage happened??

I'm wondering if I should just take it to a reputable shop? One shop with good reviews has a quote on their website for $275 to replace a radiator, but I don't know if that includes the parts. All the reviews say the mechanic is a good guy and won't try to swindle you. However, it's going to cost about another $85 to get my car towed there. I've had cars towed before (I really have the worst luck with cars ) and that's how much they usually charge if it's 12-20 miles.

I can't decide, is it worth an extra couple hundred dollars to have it all taken care of for me, or would I be better off doing it myself at the expense of working in the lab?

 

[seven_sins]

You may have engine damage unless there is a sensor which stopped the engine before that happened. I think I would seek help of a competent mechanic, or a dealer, who can check for damage and replace the radiator.

 

[gmoney]

Definitely let the mechanic take over doing the repairs. You could have some internal damage from driving it while it was overheated. Hopefully the heads aren't warped or something else serious.

 

[backpacker]

Take this from a guy who has built race cars from the frame up, you are seriously F*****. You may have been OK if you immediately stopped when you noticed it was overheating, but running it until it dies indicates serious engine trouble. The problem is that you ran all the coolant out of the engine and there was nothing to remove the heat from the engine. You probably have cracked or warped the head and may also have damaged the block. Don't waste any money having the radiator fixed until you have the engine checked to see how extensive the damage is. My guess is that you will probably need to replace the engine. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. You may be able to file an insurance claim as it was the result of an accident of sorts. I'm not sure how they handle such things. Good luck.

PS - Somebody else mentioned the possibly that a sensor shut things down before damage. Let's hope that's the case, but I seriously doubt it. Since your radiator was cool, that leads me to believe that nothing shut it down before the damage was done.

 

[hotdog1846]

Ee-yah, you'd better be ready for the worst. If there wasn't any coolant at all, your engine is toast.

You might've got lucky and somehow the radiator didn't leak, but if the cap wasn't warm, that's really unlikely. The smoke coming from the oil cap isn't a good sign either. A tiny puff of smoke when you take the cap off is normal, but if smoke was pouring out and you hadn't even taken the cap off ... it's done for. Plus, if it was so hot that it stopped running, there's major damage of some kind ...

I hope for your sake I'm wrong.

 

[Yooper]

You'll have to shoot it.

 

[versatastic]

Thanks guys, for your input. Yeah, I've been looking on google and from what I've found, the engine is likely to be dead now since I drove it while it was overheating until it finally petered out.

 

[looseliam]

An 03 Civic doesn't have any sort of electronics that shut down the engine in the event of overheating.

What happens is the engine gets so hot, that it can no longer sustain proper combustion. That's when it dies. It could be strictly from combustion chamber temperatures, to leaks in the sealing surfaces.

Honda engines are rather resilient, though.

I agree with backpacker that there is a possibility of engine damage. Most common would be a head gasket, with a slight chance of warping the head. Which, on the 4 cylinder hondas isn't that big of a job.

If you're mechanically inclined, I'd say go for it, throw a radiator in. It's been a while since I've done one, but I don't remember anything on a honda being that much of a pain.

Just remember to bleed the system properly.

Oh, it may also be worth throwing in a thermostat, too.

 

[versatastic]

Thanks, looseliam, for giving me the slightest bit of hope. I can only hope that only the head gasket was warped and nothing else.

What do you mean by "bleed the system"? If you're talking about the radiator fluid, it looks to be all gone.

If it's just the radiator, then I'm pretty sure I can do it myself. The hardest part would be to remove the bumper and bulkhead and not lose all the pins and screws.

 

[Horschallen]

COntact your insurance agent and see if your insurance policy might be able to cover the damage on the car, since something did hit the bottom of your car.

 

[looseliam]

When you fill an empty cooling system, you need to open some sort of vent at the high part of the system. It allows trapped air to come out so you have a full system.

If the bumper has to come off, it'll just be a whole bunch of screws. You may be able to just release the plastic part that goes over the core support and pull it back to expose the radiator mountings.

Start with the upper radiator hose, remove the cooling fans, then the lower hose. You should be able to loosen the radator and tilt it back towards the engine and slide it out between the core support and the engine.

Worst case is removal of the bumper and loosening of the core support. If you do have to loosen the core support, use whiteout or something else to mark where the bolts tightened down on the support, so you'll know if it's all properly aligned after install.

If the motor got hot enough to stop running, you really should replace the thermostat, too.

I don't know what your timetable is like, but I can probably get on alldata at work Monday and print-out to PDF the R&R procedures.

 

[Yooper]

COntact your insurance agent and see if your insurance policy might be able to cover the damage on the car, since something did hit the bottom of your car.

Actually, that's a VERY GOOD idea!

It would count as a single car accident, and if you are carrying Comprehensive, it would cover the whole thing.

 

[versatastic]

I totalled another about this time car last year, and it was all my fault. I don't think my insurance wants to hear about this...

 

[Yooper]

I totalled another about this time car last year, and it was all my fault. I don't think my insurance wants to hear about this...

But this one is not chargeable...not your fault. Debris on the highway is like hitting a deer. No harm, no foul. A number of times they even waive the deductible.

 

[versatastic]

I have the service manual, and it says to remove the bumper and then the "bulkhead". Then remove the upper and lower hoses and fan connector and connector switch. After removing the radiator, remove the fan shroud and everything else from the radiator. Then put everything back in reverse order with the new radiator. OOOh, then it says to fill the radiator and bleed the air. Then it points me to the page for replacing the fluid.

 

[versatastic]

But this one is not chargeable...not your fault. Debris on the highway is like hitting a deer. No harm, no foul. A number of times they even waive the deductible.

I hope so. There's no harm in trying, right? The only thing I'm worried about is my insurance premiums. I'm still on my parents' insurance and my part hasn't gone up because I've been a good driver since my last accident when I first got my license almost 10 years ago. My parents' are really going to have a cow when I tell them about this.

 

[trawler69]

I gotta say that I would replace the radiator. It's got to be replaced anyway even if the engine does need repairs. As Liam says, Hondas are pretty robust and just because an engine dies doesn't necessarily mean it is toast. The lube oil will have kept the bottom end from overheating. Hence the smoke when you opened the oil filler. The way to really kill an engine is to run it out of oil.

I have known loads of engines that have stopped from overheating and lived to see another day. I suspect yours will be one of these given that it did start after it had cooled down a bit.

I used to be a plant mechanic and have seen every type of machinery abuse and I believe you are in with a chance.

 

[versatastic]

Thanks Trawler. I'll just have to cross my fingers.

Now, is there any big difference between OEM certified and Aftermarket parts? I would think a radiator is a radiator, and I use FRAM oil and air filters. Then again, there are some high end radiators for street racers that are supposed to be better than OEM.

 

[Dragonfly]

Honda engines are known to be indestructible... Some guys run them with no cooling, no oil... Won't jam or nothing... You can see a bunch of videos on YouTube...

Thanks Trawler. I'll just have to cross my fingers.

Now, is there any big difference between OEM certified and Aftermarket parts? I would think a radiator is a radiator, and I use FRAM oil and air filters. Then again, there are some high end radiators for street racers that are supposed to be better than OEM.

Aftermarket parts are performance parts... They also void the warranty of your vehicle, and are not tolerated by insurance companies. Your stock cooling system should do the trick, unless you do lapping with your tuned Civic. But then you'll also need aftermarket brakes, injection control, an ECU remap, better exhaust, [...].

Stick to OEM parts unless you are into performance driving.

 

[versatastic]

Honda engines are known to be indestructible... Some guys run them with no cooling, no oil... Won't jam or nothing... You can see a bunch of videos on YouTube...



Aftermarket parts are performance parts... They also void the warranty of your vehicle, and are not tolerated by insurance companies. Your stock cooling system should do the trick, unless you do lapping with your tuned Civic. But then you'll also need aftermarket brakes, injection control, an ECU remap, better exhaust, [...].

Stick to OEM parts unless you are into performance driving.

Dragonfly @ MontrealRacing.com

Thanks, Dragonfly. I didn't know aftermarket = performance parts. There's just so many different brands of radiators with different prices. Yeah, I just want regular stock stuff. My car is all stock. I think the only thing close to "performance" parts I've put in a car was "high mileage" oil and filters.