Help With Someone Who Is In Fear

[TheOscar]

I am not sure where to post this, but I suppose it qualifies as "health".

How do you help someone who is gay and who is afraid of showing others they are gay? Such as, admitting in some form or another that you're gay in public? I have a friend who is going through this (no, this isn't the friend=me thing XD) and I'm not sure how to help. I tell him to be happy about who he is, but there's this sort of fear of showing his true self to the world. I know, oftentimes someone just needs time, but I want to not just do nothing.

It just disappoints me that people have to be scared of showing who they are or be ashamed of what they are. v.v I can just feel his shame, which sucks.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'm going to move your post to the Coming Out (CO&R) forum. Even though it's about your friend, the advice in the CO&R forum applies to all situations.

 

[evanrick]

i think this is a good question and hard to answer if you haven't accepted yourself fully.

what they need is a chance to be themselves around others whom they are comfortable. if that is you, then why not ask them out?

ok maybe that is a bit bold but that is the kind of thing you want to be doing, encouraging them.

i know someone who kinda sees me as an older brother and i can see he is sad a lot of the time, is put under a lot of pressure for no reason, etc. and im not sure what to do either. i know he probably wants sex too which complicates things.

 

[subsonic]

I think the best you can do for him, is be there for him and stand by his side.. If you keep encouraging and ensuring him that it's all good, maybe it will sink in with him, in the end. But in the end it is something that he has to work on himself. All you can do is really just be supportive.
Personally, what helped me all those years ago, was to be exposed of and aware of gay culture. When I found out that there were other people like me and that you could live a happy, "normal" life as a gay man, then I instantly eased up very quickly. I think that's the main fear - that you're some kind of weirdo.
Maybe you could take him some where gay-friendly, to help him realize that there are many people like him. There should be some events or something near you.

 

[Rolyo85]

I second subsonic's post. Knowing there are others who are happy and live openly is a great help in the initial stages. Also - understanding what is it that holds you back is very important. Your friend isn't afraid of what the world will do if he shows it that he's gay. He's afraid of what it will mean if he shows the world he is gay. As long as he keeps it hidden, it's not completely "true". Which means he has issues with being gay, and until he resolves those, coming out to others is a secondary problem.

Me, I just refuse to think that things I have no control over are my fault. If I can't change it and if I know people can be happy that way, then it can't be wrong.

 

[Spiff]

So this friend is just closeted, so what? Many gay people are closeted and are content with it. You almost sound like you think he has a personality disorder. Has he actually communicated to you that he wants your help nudging him out of the closet? If not, I suggest you lower your expectations and refrain from nagging on him. This sounds like more your problem than his.

 

[Rolyo85]

Being closeted kind of is and definitely leads to personality disorder. That said, people come out when they're ready, and all you can and SHOULD do is help, support and encourage. But you can't demand or be frustrated. It's not your life.

 

[Spiff]

Being closeted kind of is and definitely leads to personality disorder.

wtf? Definitely? Can I see the studies where this is proven to be true? You are practically calling at least half of all gay people mentally ill. My, aren't we feeling superior today.

 

[Rolyo85]

Not in the least. I came out at 25 and I can definitely see the psychological damage that has dealt to me.

Living in secret and shame does cause mental problems. Not to mention the sexual repression. Call it "I'll" or not, it is what it is. My observation is that a good 2/3 of the gay population in the US suffers from severe internalized homophobia at the very least.

And interestingly, it's always the kids that came out early in an accepting environment that have the least issues.

 

[Spiff]

Just what I suspected. You are applying your own situation to the entire gay population, and you are making up numbers from your "observation". Convenient.

 

[Rolyo85]

If you get your head out of your... outrage for a second, you'll quickly compute how impossible it would be to a) define and b) detect internalized homophobia for the purposes of actual academic research. Of course I only have my own observations. However, I am OCD about observing, finding connections, hidden patterns and meaning in every waking second of my life, so honestly, I trust my observations more than your knee-jerk reflex anger at them

Also, no, I am not applying my own situation. I have absolutely no issues with being gay or homosexuality in general. I see the signs over and over both here (as well as CE&P) and in many other places. My issues were lying in other areas, and I have largely identified and worked toward resolving them. Your outrage fails to notice I am not talking from a position of any superiority.

This isn't the topic to argue about that though. Feel free to post a new one if you want to continue. I'd gladly reply there. Or you can assume I'm a damaged douchebag who insists everyone else is equally damaged, and you can feel morally victorious. It's all the same to me really ^_^

 

[bananagoof]

To me, this sounds like any other issue a friend would have - ex: they drink too much, they don't eat right, they make up stories to sound cool at parties. Sure, it's annoying and worrisome, but if you really care about this person, the most you can do is sit them down and genuinely express your concern with them. Then, keep your opinions to yourself, and your frustration/fears in check. You have to let people sort through their own things.

You didn't say whether or not this person is "out" to you. If the whole issue is that you suspect a friend to be gay but closeted, then the answer is easy: butt out. Whether he is or isn't (or is it a she?) gay, it's none of your business. Their sex life is not an open discussion simply because you're friends.

If they are dating/having sex and living a gay life and sharing that with you, but keeping a lid on it with others, well, as I said, talk with them. Try and remind them that no matter how scary it may seem, you'll be there for them, and who you date/love isn't the be-all, end-all defining characteristic of a human life. They're more than just a "gay" label.

But in both cases, remember it's not up to you to "fix" or save them. If you pressure them on the subject, it will probably make things worse. People come out when they feel comfortable within themselves. The only way you can help that happen is to genuinely be a good friend, and show them their sex life doesn't matter to you.

 

[borednew]

So this friend is just closeted, so what? Many gay people are closeted and are content with it. You almost sound like you think he has a personality disorder. Has he actually communicated to you that he wants your help nudging him out of the closet? If not, I suggest you lower your expectations and refrain from nagging on him. This sounds like more your problem than his.

Exactly.

Not your life. Not your business. Unless they explicitly ask for your help, you should stay out of other peoples' lives. He isn't living his life to please you; get over it. If he wants to stay "inside" of the "closet" for the rest of his life, it'll be his decision and you'll have to respect it. Again, it's not your business.

 

[TheOscar]

Thanks guys for the tips!

Well, the thing is, he is out to me and I can see and he has also told me how it bothers him. So, this is obviously a problem if it is making him feel ashamed of being gay. It's nothing about him wanting to remain in the closet because he isn't ready; it's about him feeling ashamed of himself. I can definitely understand if he isn't willing to be out to every single person or be open about it in okay situations, it's the fact that it is hurting him. That's the bad part.

 

[Seasoned]

He's implied that he wants help and you've been providing it. The fact that he's ashamed seems to be coming from internalized homophobia. While you can be an example he'll need to work on his inner self either alone or with a therapist if he's going to accept himself. He has to convince himself that although he's in the minority he's also normal.

You can't lecture him into self acceptance and, as with any friendship, you can't allow him to bring you down or to hide with him. It's kind of you to do what you can for him as long as it doesn't drag you down. I hope he knows that you are happy to be who you are and are open about it. Outside of suggesting therapy, your demeanor is your way of letting him know the path out of shame.

Fear can be dealt with in the same way, but you out to help him clarify exactly what he's afraid of.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi TheOscar,

Your profile tells me that you are 20, that you are living in the US and that you are out to your friends. So I assume that most people around you (including him and others) are aware that you are gay. Would you mind to tell us abit more how open you are?

Be a good friend to him and let him experience that you (= a more or less open gay) is not ashamed (or whatever) that you are gay.
Do you have other gay friends / straight friends who are very gay friendly? What's his background? Does he has a reli-fundi background?

Any idea if he also had told other friends that he is gay? He is of around your age? I agree with others that its seems likely that he still needs some time to get used to the idea that there is no reason why open gay guys can't be happy and relaxed, like eg yourself and many others. Right now, he is not happy / relaxed and the main reason is him being in the closet.

Maybe you might propose him that he might contact a local LBGT group, and see if they also offer some sort of counseling for him? Maybe you might even propose him that you join him during the fist few steps?

Good luck and feel free to react.

 

[Ganoderma]

Living in secret and shame does cause mental problems. Not to mention the sexual repression.

hi Spiff,

Your profile shows that you are gay, that you are living in the US and that you are totally closeted. I have no idea about you age. Would you mind that I ask you some questions? Are you happy and are you relaxed? What happens when you meet in public (or at your work, or at school, or where ever) a nice gay guy? What do you do when a sweet girl insists that she likes you and that she would like it very much to become 'close friends' with you?


Rolyo85 and the other open gays over here are totally right: living as a closet case above a certain age does cause mental problems.

(1): more and more people around you will wonder why you don't have a girlfriend / wife / interest in 'girls', and likely some of them will even ask this to you / give some hints. So what's your answer?

(2): Rolyo85 and all other open gays don't need to look over their shoulder when they suddenly bump into a dear gay friend in a very public area.

(3): Rolyo85 and all other open gays don't need to hide that they have a boyfriend, that they go to a gay club, that they have gay friends, that they debate about same-sex marriage, that they sign online petions on gay topics, etc.

(4): Rolyo85 and all other open gays don't need to hide on their Facebook account that some of their friends are gay / that they support online petions for gay rights (eg same-sex marriage), etc.

(5): Rolyo85 and all other open gays don't need to hide to their gay relatives that they are gay as well.

(6): Rolyo85 and all other open gays don't need to bother about homophobic 'friends', because a homophobe can never be a friend of an open gay.

Etc.

And how about you?

 

[palbert]

He's implied that he wants help and you've been providing it......Outside of suggesting therapy, your demeanor is your way of letting him know the path out of shame......

The Oscar's description sounds like more than mimicry is needed. I concur with some degree of therapy. There may well be other deeper and darker reasons.

 

[Spiff]

Your profile shows that you are gay, that you are living in the US and that you are totally closeted.

Actually some friends know officially. Most others just know. If anyone asks me directly, I tell them I am gay. That's not an option in the JustUsBoys profile.

Are you happy and are you relaxed?

yes. At least in real life. Not here in this thread at the moment where I have been put on trial with all your questions. No friends, family, or even colleagues would ever grill me like you have.

What happens when you meet in public (or at your work, or at school, or where ever) a nice gay guy?

It depends on the situation. I may just talk to him. But I don't say "hey, we are both gay, let's go do gay things". I talk to him like I would talk to anyone else I might like to get to know better, gay or straight.

What do you do when a sweet girl insists that she likes you and that she would like it very much to become 'close friends' with you?

That's happened a few times. I just indicate politely to her that I am not interested.

Rolyo85 and the other open gays over here are totally right: living as a closet case above a certain age does cause mental problems.

No you are not right, at last with all people. Your radical definition of "mental problems" sounds insane. Just because one doesn't directly say they are gay to other people in a social situation does not mean they have mental problems. I will wager that there are just as many openly gay people with some sort of mental disorder as there are closeted ones.

In any case, when people ask directly, I tell them. Although nobody ever really asks, they just know. Call me an Anderson Cooper type closeted. Some say he is out and doesn't need to say he is out to actually be out. Although I do not buy that and do not agree he is out, I also do not believe he has "mental problems". I do not know him personally, but from what I can see he seems to be of sound mind and can think reasonably, and seems very happy. I'm not saying me an AC are close buddies, but just using him as an example where my "closetedness" is similar to his.

I am done with your questions. This thread is not about me, or an inquisition of me. And I am certain no matter what I say, you're just going to continue to ramble with delusions of grandeur.

Final note. There is nothing wrong with people like you caring about closeted guys and I can appreciate that. But by going to the extreme saying they all have mental problems, or will someday, that just crosses the line.

 

[Rolyo85]

1. If you're so hung up on the "mental problems" definition, let's go with "mental issues"

2. The fact that you respond so sharply to Ganoderma's post (he is btw probably the second mildest and kindest person in this forum after Seasoned), kind of proves my point. This is obviously a sensitive issue for you. Why?

As for your reasoning that just as many out people bla bla bla - well DUH - in today's world probably a good 97% of the out homosexuals were until a certain point IN. You don't magically get cured of all your issues once you come out. It only gives you the chance at healing. Also, notice I never intended for this to be about you. I haven't even looked at your profile.