Here is a possible near future moral dilemma

[Dominus]

Don't worry about the legal side of things. I've already talked to my lawyer about this and know exactly what to do in every possible future scenario legally.

Family of 7. Mom, dad, 5 kids. They rent a house from me. $1200/month. A couple months ago, mom and dad got arrested for suspected child abuse. Kids were taken away into foster care.

They just moved here from the other side of the country. In other words, all their worldly possessions are in that house.

They have reached out to me from within the system. They need that place in order to get the kids back. And surprisingly, they have been paying rent in full on time every month through their lawyer.

That said, I know human nature. Any time now, they're going to feel something like "why should I pay for a place I'm not even living in?" Heck, even people who live in their places full time don't think they ought to pay rent.

Like I said, apparently all their bills are still being paid. But once they stop paying their bills...

I already know the course of action I can legally take if/when that time comes. But morally... I'm in a bind. I don't actually know what I should do. I'm in a weird spot here. Keep in mind this is a business and not a charity. I don't have unlimited money. But it also feels wrong to do what I'm suppose to do legally.

Thoughts?

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

As long as they pay your their bills... you can always evict them when they stop doing so.

Or are landlords somehow legally responsible for what tennants do where you live?

 

[cabinfever]

They are paying their rent and will probably continue to do so as a condition of getting their kids back.

Focus on the IS happening instead of what MIGHT happen which is the rent is being paid and for a good reason.

If the situation changes then re-visit the possibilities.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

For whatever it's worth, do you have any idea whether the child-abuse charges have any merit? And do you happen to know how the kids are doing in foster care?

 

[unloadonme]

If they keep paying the rent, what's the problem?

 

[jaysizzles]

You said the parents are "suspected" of child abuse (not convicted), but you said they reached out to you from "within the system" (aka jail?) I'm confused as to where they currently are. It seems like they're not currently living in the house, from what I'm reading and especially since the lawyer is paying their rent. The rent being paid is nice, but how long will that be?

I'd also want to know more about what the circumstances were that the kids were taken away. Some scenarios I'd consider helping them to stay in the house, others I'd want to evict them and not help them get their kids back. For example, if the parents were into drugs and they were living in filthy conditions I wouldn't want them living there or have their kids. If the kids were bruised and beaten I wouldn't want to help them get their kids back. If the parents were neat and the abuse charges aren't valid, I'd probably want them to stay. I guess I need more info before giving an opinion on this moral dilemma...

 

[rareboy]

You only need to worry about the rent coming in.

Everything else is speculation.

 

[peeonme]

When you decided to be a landlord this scenario should have been taken into account. You aren't running a charity. Take the money as long as it comes in, when it stops cover your ass as the law affords you to do so.

 

[Dominus]

When you decided to be a landlord this scenario should have been taken into account. You aren't running a charity. Take the money as long as it comes in, when it stops cover your ass as the law affords you to do so.

It's the "when it stops" part that concerns me. By law, I'm suppose to put all their belongings into storage and let them have a chance to get them for 90 days. What happens after that? Again, these folks just moved here from the other side of the country. We are literally talking about ALL their worldly possessions.

What a mess of a situation.

I must admit this scenario never occurred to me. When I was planning out this business, I ran through all kinds of crazy scenarios. But this never came up.

 

[Dominus]

You said the parents are "suspected" of child abuse (not convicted), but you said they reached out to you from "within the system" (aka jail?) I'm confused as to where they currently are. It seems like they're not currently living in the house, from what I'm reading and especially since the lawyer is paying their rent. The rent being paid is nice, but how long will that be?

I'd also want to know more about what the circumstances were that the kids were taken away. Some scenarios I'd consider helping them to stay in the house, others I'd want to evict them and not help them get their kids back. For example, if the parents were into drugs and they were living in filthy conditions I wouldn't want them living there or have their kids. If the kids were bruised and beaten I wouldn't want to help them get their kids back. If the parents were neat and the abuse charges aren't valid, I'd probably want them to stay. I guess I need more info before giving an opinion on this moral dilemma...

Because of the severity of the charges times 5 (let's just say they each face 10 felony charges), the judge set their bond at ludicrous amounts. In other words, they are still in jail. The kids have been placed in foster care in other states.

Frankly, I wasn't expecting them to pay rent at all. I know human nature. People hate to pay rent. Even the ones living in their respective premises believe they shouldn't have to pay rent. And we are talking about people who currently do not reside there. So, imagine my surprise when their lawyer reached out to me and started paying rent.

But again, because I know human nature, I really am convinced eventually they will stop paying rent. What goes through their heads? Why should they continue to pay for a place they are not living in? Then what?

I'm not sure I am comfortable with getting rid of someone's entire worldly possessions. My lawyer has advised me to be careful about this. They are not convicted so I am suppose to treat them like normal tenants.

This is a mess of a situation that I must admit I never anticipated.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

Ten felony charges each? Yikes! That's a lot more serious than I had anticipated.

And if they just moved to where you are from the other side of the country, I can't help thinking that the parents may have been fleeing similar charges in the state they came from.

I know you're not running a charity, but, if and when they stop paying rent and you have to get movers to put their stuff in storage, could you see your way to paying for the storage locker for, say, a year instead of just 90 days? That could be a balance between protecting yourself and not letting all of their possessions (including those of the kids) get sold off or tossed away. (If their attorney agreed to pay for the storage locker, even better.)

By the way, I don't hate paying rent. It's entirely fair, since the landlords take care of the maintenance and I don't have to. I might hate paying rent if my landlords were neglectful, but -- very luckily, considering that I'm in New York City -- my landlords have all been good.

 

[peeonme]

Just wondering if your tenants were month to month or on a lease? Was there any type of a written agreement about abandoned property?

 

[Dominus]

Just wondering if your tenants were month to month or on a lease? Was there any type of a written agreement about abandoned property?

Month to month. Ever since covid moratorium, I've been putting everyone onto month to month.

That said, I make a promise to all that as long as they follow the lease I will continue to renew.

My lease covers everything under the sun including abandonment of premises. I also have a lawyer that I consult with before doing anything.

 

[Dominus]

Ten felony charges each? Yikes! That's a lot more serious than I had anticipated.

Ya, tell me about it. It came out of the blue for me.

Everything seemed normal. And all of a sudden their neighbor called me telling me about the mess. She said the police lit up that whole street. I talked to a few more neighbors. Apparently, it was a very public event. Must have been embarrassing for the parents being taken out in a very public way like that. It's one of those neighborhoods where everybody knows everybody. During the warm months, whenever I came around I always saw adults standing outside talking with each other and the kids playing up and down the street.

it's been more than a couple months and I'm still shocked by the severity and number of charges.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

Did the neighbors see bruises on the kids or something?

 

[Rickrock]

If and when the time comes and you need to put their things into storage, I then would consider contacting their lawyer to see what the people want done with their belongings. If the storage rent wasn't excessive, I would like to pay for a year or something, but reality might need to change that idea.

 

[rareboy]

Because of the severity of the charges times 5 (let's just say they each face 10 felony charges), the judge set their bond at ludicrous amounts. In other words, they are still in jail. The kids have been placed in foster care in other states.

Frankly, I wasn't expecting them to pay rent at all. I know human nature. People hate to pay rent. Even the ones living in their respective premises believe they shouldn't have to pay rent. And we are talking about people who currently do not reside there. So, imagine my surprise when their lawyer reached out to me and started paying rent.

But again, because I know human nature, I really am convinced eventually they will stop paying rent. What goes through their heads? Why should they continue to pay for a place they are not living in? Then what?

I'm not sure I am comfortable with getting rid of someone's entire worldly possessions. My lawyer has advised me to be careful about this. They are not convicted so I am suppose to treat them like normal tenants.

This is a mess of a situation that I must admit I never anticipated.

Even though they are probably guilty as fuck, the operative statement is that they have been charged but not convicted. Their lawyer is smart enough to know that if he stops paying their rent, they will be evicted. The moment they are convicted, he will likely stop paying their rent and then you can work out with him what he wants to do with their stuff.

I assume that you do not permit sublets or added tenants in your rental agreement.

 

[Dominus]

I assume that you do not permit sublets or added tenants in your rental agreement.

Fuck no.

 

[rareboy]

That is good. It prevents them from having a family member or 'friend' effectively take over their apartment.

I am wondering if you might not be wise to have your lawyer send their lawyer a letter explaining that you intend to honour their lease as long as the rent continues to be paid in full, but that looking forward, in the event of conviction, could he advise of the intentions of his clients and how you can work together to go forward. It might be useful in court later.

 

[Dominus]

Update on this.

They are still paying rent. Or at least their lawyer is. The place is still theirs.

That said, it's not looking good for them. This morning I was reading the news and this came up.

https://www.wbiw.com/2023/06/16/scott-blattert-will-serve-11-1-2-years-in-prison-for-beating-his-children-with-glue-sticks-and-a-belt/

Almost identical charges. Almost identical circumstances. The guy got sentenced to 13 years.

So... iunno it's starting to look like I'll end up with a house full of stuff. Again, these guys moved here from Arizona so all their worldly possessions are in that place. I've been thinking about this for months and it still doesn't feel right just dumping all their worldly possessions if they indeed go to prison.