Hide the 'niggers!'

[RobinGoodfellow]

Actually I don't think it was always considered a slur, so I googled the origins of the word and found -

"The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black"."

But I do agree that the mentality of society has changed.

It was still a slur, as it was used to denote also that they were a lower class, including not as bright and deserving of their status. It may have originated neutral, but it quickly became an insult.

That said, Huck himself uses almost like kids today do, with no insult intended and just as a way to refer to a group of people.

RG

 

[fetaby]

rotary. you and fetaBAby are two people I really like here.

Would you both grab your intellectual side for a moment and

read post number 44.

Language is constantly changing, modifying and adjusting. It

is a shame that certain members the current culture like so much

of the current government feels the need to "NANNYCIZE" and to

mollycoddle all so the fucking sheep will all stay in the same pen.

You mad?

Society is constantly changing, modifying and adjusting as well.

It may not be clear, but I don't agree with changing the book. What I do agree with is understanding the context of the language, and why it isn't used today.

 

[LilBit]

I have never read this book but wow. Okay then.

That must make for some awkward class discussions/oral reading.

I can imagine.

I'm a specialist in (among other subjects) race and racism in literature and film, and in the course of my writing and presentations, I've had to write and say that words hundreds of times. It gets easier, but I always feel a bit disgusted whenever I have to write or say it.

No kidding. When it comes to mandatory classroom reading, the word nigger is just as negative as faggot and has no place in our schools. Sure teach them about racist and homophobic slangs but don't force kids to read books that use the terms in an uninformative context.

This is why teachers should create an informative context in the classroom and use the original language of the novel as an opportunity to teach children about the history of racism and oppression in the US.

Actually I don't think it was always considered a slur, so I googled the origins of the word and found -

"The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black"."

But I do agree that the mentality of society has changed.

The roots of the word aren't offensive in and of themselves, but the discussion is about whether or not the word was considered a slur at the time when Huck Finn was written. As far as I can tell, the best way to categorize it is a slur that many white people had few inhibitions about using.

 

[fetaby]

Oh I know all about division. Growing up in Alabama in the '60s we had the "white" neighborhood and the "black" neighborhood. The only thing dividing the two was an open field. Almost every Saturday the kids from both neighborhoods would meet in the field to play. Together.
We, meaning all of us, used the words nigger and cracker with no ill intent implied. They were just interchangeable words, much like dinner and supper.
Of course since then many people have decided that both words are derogatory, so I don't use them anymore simply because I don't want to offend anyone.

yeah, i'm nice like that.

How hippy of you....

 

[belamyi]

.................................

 

[Lefty]

No Josh,

You know something as silly as this won't get me mad. Irked, yes. My thing was you didn't make it clear how you felt and my reading interpreted as you being
totally pro the change. Guess the language has changed a bit since I was in school...............


For the record, if I were reading a similar story set in the present time and
the storyline updated. If some one were to write an historical or dated piece
I would be offended if he/she (pc now) didn't use the vernacular, slang and
terminology appropriate to the time of the story.

Just a fucking textural purist I reckon laddy buck.

 

[rotary]

rotary. you and fetaBAby are two people I really like here.

Would you both grab your intellectual side for a moment and

read post number 44.

Language is constantly changing, modifying and adjusting. It

is a shame that certain members the current culture like so much

of the current government feels the need to "NANNYCIZE" and to

mollycoddle all so the fucking sheep will all stay in the same pen.

You're right, language is constantly changing, but the word nigger hasn't changed enough in meaning yet in order to make it required reading for school children. Maybe one day when it's no longer used as a derogatory slang I'll feel differently, but it's not okay when racism is alive and well and a book which kids read uses the word to passively describe black people.

There's hundreds of millions of books out there for schoolboards to choose from. Pick a different novel...

 

[bankside]

It's stupid to censor it. It would be as though we assumed student were so stupid that if you taught them the history of the NAZIs' rise to power before WWII and explained the phrase "heil hitler" that they would actually assume you were personally heiling hitler.

No of course not. It is both a fact that people spoke that way and that the book was written that way, so teach it that way. And any student who thinks the lesson to be learned is "it's okay to talk about black people that way today" should fail the class. I'm pretty sure there will be no failures.

 

[fetaby]

And the novel you'd choose is...?

The Harry Potter series.

Or the Sookie Stackhouse mysteries.

 

[rotary]

And the novel you'd choose is...?

If I did it, by O.J. Simpson. Kids are smart enough to know it's fiction, right?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

here book fa world schools Open windows ans suck it up

 

[Esquire0399]

I agree. That's the travesty... that they're still requiring students to read that steaming lump of horse manure disguised as a book.

Lol agreed. That's the same way I feel about so many other "great literary accomplishments" that are supposed to teach kids all sorts of fantastic lessons, but which actually serve to bore the hell out of them or, in the case of Shakespeare confuse the fuck out of them. I almost feel as though these books are taught because of what they are, not because of what knowledge they have to offer. When will that end?

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Lol agreed. That's the same way I feel about so many other "great literary accomplishments" that are supposed to teach kids all sorts of fantastic lessons, but which actually serve to bore the hell out of kids or, in the case of Shakespeare confuse the fuck out of them. I almost feel as though these books are taught because of what they are, not because of what knowledge they have to offer. When will that end?

first thing worth read this topic

KOOL keep goin!

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

behind any word human be
even if human yet ta be
if ya see

not society!
casue it no cans blow it own nose

ans in da makin
lot a bakin
what not in da know
keep burnin
while da chefs
grew fat
ans die
ans da ovens
always on da go

 

[fetaby]

Although I'm not going further off the rails to defend the curriculum in English literature in public schools, much of the critiques leveled above seem to believe that selections in anthologies are chosen in order to teach moral lessons.

When I taught, it took a great deal of energy to disabuse secondary school students from trying to write, "and the lesson of this story is. . . " Apparently, many were suffering from a sort of arrested intellectual development when it came to literary analysis, and were reluctant to move on from the primary school thinking.

The study of literature after the earliest stages has little to do with the teaching of moral lessons. To the contrary, it is focused on the creation of character, the development of plot, the treatment of conflict, and the presentation of themes.

To miss those fundamental points calls into serious question the integrity of any school that may have given passing grades to students completing credits in English Literature. The same applies to students earning passing credits without learning these key elements. Grade inflation and social promotion make a travesty of much of the transcripts of high school graduates.

Two words.... Bible Study.

 

[chatolandia]

I think the novel should not be bowdlerized, that's done way to often anyway.

I like Lilbit's option, after all, and important part of Literature is the understanding of the historical context of the story.

and it bothers me when history is sanitized, it a slippery slope.

 

[silosybin]

the word "nigger" had a different connotation back then than it does now. language changes over time. it's kind of like translating something written in 17th century english to 21st century english.

that being said, i think the reason to change the language in a book should only be for making sure people can understand as closely as possible what the text meant when it was originally published. so i think in this case, it would be better to leave in the "nigger"s and have a foreword or something explaining how the word was used back then.

if children are too young to hear the word, then don't teach the book to them. save it for high school when they can appreciate the issues better.

 

[bankside]

The word "nigger" has never ever had the connotation of "that gentleman over there who is my equal in every way, whose skin happens to be darker than mine."

I can accept the argument that it once was a neutral term used to refer to the colour of someone's skin, rather than their social standing. But once you knew the colour of their skin, their social standing was taken for granted.

 

[fetaby]

^Sadly, I hadn't made the connection, but that is likely the origin. Not that the students were necessarily raised churched, only that their culture had been shaped by the promulgation of Scripture as some of the only literature they ever encountered outside of school.

Thanks for the insight.

More's the point it's a really westernized approach to living and learning. Instead of objectively dealing with what's there, we bypass it all, cut to the chase and "learn" from the moral. It happens with bible stories, but also with fairy tales, sitcoms, and reality.

Aesop would be proud. It's even happened to this thread.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

More's the point it's a really westernized approach to living and learning. Instead of objectively dealing with what's there, we bypass it all, cut to the chase and "learn" from the moral. It happens with bible stories, but also with fairy tales, sitcoms, and reality.

Aesop would be proud. It's even happened to this thread.

keep goin

me hopes high one day cultures figure what neva need not say

go bite ma leg keep ma teeth busy

ooh theys hot YO!!!!! ova hereeeeee