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Hide the 'niggers!'

I think...

  • ...it's a travesty for such an important work to be censored like this.

    Votes: 80 87.0%
  • ...the replacement of the two controversial words is a terrific idea.

    Votes: 8 8.7%
  • ...Gribben and La Rosa are TOTALLY fucking, and that explains this whole sorry affair.

    Votes: 4 4.3%

  • Total voters
    92
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I'll assume you weren't exactly awake when you read my post.

You're attacking something I didn't say, and arguing to support your attack by using what I did say.

A huge amount of what's in this thread revolved around kids not being ready for "THE WORK ITSELF", or people thinking they aren't ready, or sniveling whiners being all weepy about how some word in a book not aimed at anyone today is offensive, which kids shouldn't have to hear, etc. And all of this was put forth as a defense of some lying publisher with a shallow understanding of what literature is raping a book and pretending it was still what Twain wrote, thus lying to kids and robbing them of the chance at a real education.

Into the stark no-compromise situation came LilBit's suggestion of abridging it for kids. In the context, that was brilliant, because it was far more perceptive and useful than anything the rest of us had been saying: it confronted all the problems people had with the situation and took care of every one. An abridged edition says, merely by stating that it is abridged, that it isn't the work itself. It warns from the outset that things have been tossed out. It purports to do nothing but tell the story, with no claims to preserving side plots, historical reality, cultural themes, or anything else. It is thus perfect for the situation.

And had I a genie to command, I'd have all the copies of the raped and butchered bastardization of Twain's work rounded up and stuffed up the ass of the publisher and his fans who think he's done a wonderful thing, and if any of them survived the experience have them put to writing "I will not fuck with excellence and truth" ten thousand times in the sand on a nice wide beach in Australia. One wish done, the next would bring a world-class abridger, and put something out that will allow fifth graders to be introduced to Twain's work.
I could say the same of you, who seem to care more for not being taken for the wrong sort of person than for getting my point. You are saying there the same you said before, and which was what I opposed, and that doesn't mean I think you are a bad person siding with censors and all that.
I said that abridged versions are about as new as translation, so it's not such a brilliant discovery and new solution, not even a new application of an old solution: my care was to show that talking about "an abridged version" is a way of confusing people, kids even more so, by giving the impression that you are being given the same, or the "essence" or "most important part" which is but a different way of saying exactly the same thing, by reading that version. My point was not against teaching kids the stories of books, but against not making it clear that what they are given is not the novel. It is naive to believe that point is a mere trifle, because if you say that abridged versions deleting and reformulating whole pages and chapters ARE Twain's novel, how can it not be that Twain's novel remains so with just the substitution of all occurrences of a single term?

In short, kids should also be taught, VERY CLEARLY AND SPECIFICALLY, that they are not being taught Twain in abridged versions. And don't anybody be so naive as to say that everybody that an abridged version is not obviously the same, because I will have to repeat yet another time that even those who pretend they are aware of that, will still claim that there is still some gist or essence which is being transmitted to kids, and that that gist and essence can do without the impact of the term here under discussion, which is part and a very relevant one (proof the discussions here and elsewhere) of Twain's work.
A concoction based on Twain's novel can illustrate a concocted lesson about racism, but using that concoction as Twain's lesson itself is a different thing, and it ignores and destroys all the care, the complexity and the force that distinguish what we can call an American classic with a lesson about racism.






If anything, if it really is basically about teaching the lessons to be learned from the novel, why not just do what is always done at schools too, apart from abridging or translating, which is giving to kids whole unabridged passages considered especially relevant, and the rest as a summary, which is in fact an abridgment of an abridgment (of an abridgment if you want), instead of giving them a watered down version under the impression that it IS Twain's novel, or more his novel than just a commentary on it using his own words and passages here and there?






And yes, what I say obviously implies that if you haven't read Flaubert's or Racine's, or Du Fu, or Cervantes' or Pushkin's originals you are not reading the real work, and that's how you explain that British and American scholars find it impossible to understand why some of those authors are so highly praised in their native cultures.
Languages and communication and texts are a fascinating... and maddening world... hence belamy :rolleyes:
 
GMC =

Corvette

GMC =

Chevette


How come I ain't as fucking happy with the second one? And

my 8th grader wasn't either.

Got It?

:rolleyes:#-o:=D:#-o:rolleyes:
 
An abridged edition says, merely by stating that it is abridged, that it isn't the work itself.
We are come to this discussion precisely because we are used to take many things for granted, as self-evident, or as "speaking" "directly" to us. A travesty version substituting the 200 occurrences of a word that Twain wrote (words, like elvin said, that he didn't "need" to write, but that he actually DID wrote, words that, of course, our opinion can dictate as more or less relevant, dispensable and replaceable, isn't it so?) would not be even more evidently "not the work itself"? And yet here we are, discussing whether or not it still is Twain's work or not or, if it actually is not so, whether it would be morally acceptable or not to accept the travesty "to protect the kids" (invoking public safety or national security reasons wouldn't apply in this case, but again let's not start taking things for granted, China's money is already here, so why wouldn't some American politicians decide to start importing their politics too, right?). Editors, scholars, authorities in Twain should not evidently "know better" than any of us, and shouldn't be trust their criteria?

Start taking things for granted and see what's next... I am not saying "do this" or "don't do that", but simply "be honest and very clear about what you are doing and do not pretend that you are doing what you are not doing by carelessly or wickedly disguising it under the wrong name or under a good intention".
 
The biggest problem I have with rewriting the books to eliminate the 'n' word in favour of 'slave' is that not all black people of that time were slaves. Many of them were free.
 
The biggest problem I have with rewriting the books to eliminate the 'n' word in favour of 'slave' is that not all black people of that time were slaves. Many of them were free.

dat interestin cause

well so many cultures no can fgiure evens nos a talk black and white

africa is how old? ups it is europe ans next it coor it lot ans

united nations alls wanna stick their head in shit ans suck up what repesent so call educate civlization

ya may know this so no add 200 million volumns ya college tissues ya jack ova on

it okay

;)
 
@ belamo

Once again you said you opposed what I said, then said exactly the same thing I said, as your argument to oppose it. Saying what I said isn't much of an argument against what I said.
 
The biggest problem I have with rewriting the books to eliminate the 'n' word in favour of 'slave' is that not all black people of that time were slaves. Many of them were free.

Yes.

Many were free, many of those were successful business people, in both free and slave states, and in the south some were not merely slave owners but owned more slaves than most whites. Some who were free worked for whites, some worked for blacks, some worked for themselves. Some were trusted as much as any white, whether they were free or slave. Some slaves lived with greater freedom than many free whites; some free blacks lived in far more miserable state than most slaves.

All those seeming contradictions and conundrums were part of the word "nigger". Using the word "slave" guts the book by throwing all that out. It's why I said they've have done better to replace it with "Klingon".
 
@ belamo

Once again you said you opposed what I said, then said exactly the same thing I said, as your argument to oppose it. Saying what I said isn't much of an argument against what I said.
Again you took it as if I had been opposing you, while I was only saying watch out and be careful with what you say you do and what you are actually doing...
that I gave that impression must have been my fault for the way I "write", but I still think you are "on the edge" while being "on this side", just like elvin is "on the other side" while nominally "on this side", because you keep taking some things for granted about what constitutes a book, what is transmitted as being directly and somehow essentially related to original texts. The mere fact that the "abridgment" solution seemed to you "brilliant", even "in context" a couple of pages before on this thread, as some good "compromise" solution, just shows that you may be pointing at misunderstanding about texts and their meaning on a different level than the one originally being discussed here.
But we can leave it as merely a mistake on my part if you want and say that I'm just "reading too much" into your posts.
 
and then you said what I said that I said you said when you said what

you said about what he said when he said what I said about what you

said to me when I said you said he said it.

Is that about right I asked after he asked what you asked when I asked

you what he asked when you asked why he asked what I asked when you

asked first.


..|#-o(!)#-o..|
 
oh dear bellyachemo,

I am afraid you have begun to stutter.(*8*)
 
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