Hillary says she will help struggling Americans. Why Should We Believe that she would?

[Hankerin1075]

If you want your toilets cleaned, and you can't do it yourself, you pay someone to do it.
If you don't pay the full cost of employing that person, you're being subsidised by them and the tax payer.

You revealed that relative to the minimum wage, your pay has decreased with time. That means that your employers are valuing your work less and less, yet somehow that doesn't concern you. Interesting.

It concearns me. That's why I talk about it. It is not just me and my job. A lot of folks are worried about inflated minimums. I would like to see things stay in proportion. That simply isn't happening. That's the real world.

On another note I want to clarify that I don't consider cleaners/housekeepers useless or inferior people. I never said they were. They offer a needed service. I said it is menial labor which is true. Look up the definition. I am in no way saying that they should be ashamed. Some of you guys love putting words in my mouth. I respect anybody that has a strong work ethic and strives to advance.

 

[gsdx]

On another note I want to clarify that I don't consider cleaners/housekeepers useless or inferior people. I never said they were. They offer a needed service. I said it is menial labor which is true.

Yes, we know... and know... and know. But you've said just as often that they aren't deserving of a decent wage which at least keeps them above the poverty level. The way you talk, the people who do those 'menial jobs' deserve to be poor.

 

[peeonme]

In a health economy people are not working for the minimum wage.
Here goes my broken record;
In 1968 the minimum was between 1.15 and 1.60 depending upon what kind of job one had, I think that the difference was in a job where one received tips verses where an employee didn't get tipped.

I was 16 and got $2.. per hour my first day on the job. Why did McDonalds pay me 25% more than minimum wage? Why did they give raises at least a few times per year?
They needed workers. Pure and simple. The only people that worked for minimum wage were part time high school kids.

Employers will pay what ever it takes to get a worker if they need one bad enough. We can create a living wage, but it would be far better if a health economy where workers were needed produced that number.

 

[Benvolio]

In a health economy people are not working for the minimum wage.
Here goes my broken record;
In 1968 the minimum was between 1.15 and 1.60 depending upon what kind of job one had, I think that the difference was in a job where one received tips verses where an employee didn't get tipped.

I was 16 and got $2.. per hour my first day on the job. Why did McDonalds pay me 25% more than minimum wage? Why did they give raises at least a few times per year?
They needed workers. Pure and simple. The only people that worked for minimum wage were part time high school kids.

Employers will pay what ever it takes to get a worker if they need one bad enough. We can create a living wage, but it would be far better if a health economy where workers were needed produced that number.

Very few people in the US do work for the minimum and they are mostly teena agers and people earning second income. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey...about-the-minimum-wage-is-false/#46b4e3a656f1. The huge numbers struggling to live on minimum do not exist. Again. Thr US has the highest aversge income except except tiny nations.
But i agree with you we too many workers.

 

[peeonme]

Very few people in the US do work for the minimum and they are mostly teena agers and people earning second income. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey...about-the-minimum-wage-is-false/#46b4e3a656f1. The huge numbers struggling to live on minimum do not exist. Again. Thr US has the highest aversge income except except tiny nations.
But i agree with you we too many workers.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
If in 1968 the minimum wage was 1.60 then in 2016 if it had kept pace with inflation it would be $11.06
If I received $2.00 per hour in 1968 today just to break even I would get $13.83, this was for flipping burgers.
In 1970 when I turned 18 I was promoted to assistant manager, I received $150.00 per week salary in todays dollars that would be
$930.34.

In 1998 I grossed $60,000., the year I retired I would had to have made $87142.09 just to keep pace with the cost of living, I was no where close, granted I worked less hours but made the same hourly rate as I did in 1998, minus the $2.50 per hour my health care now cost. In 1998 it was paid in full by my employer.

Now, before you say "unions", I was non union. I made a lot in '98 as a skilled worker because of a demand for my services, as global/"free trade" set in I was not needed as much, I could still find a job, but my pay had gone in to reverse, I finally decided in 2014 that if my government didn't want me to work then as a loyal patriotic citizen I should retire, so now they can support me.
I hope that it's for a very long time.

 

[Hankerin1075]

Yes, we know... and know... and know. But you've said just as often that they aren't deserving of a decent wage which at least keeps them above the poverty level. The way you talk, the people who do those 'menial jobs' deserve to be poor.

You are in a fantasyland if you think housekeepers will ever earn the same as people that have specialized skills. Smoke some dope. It will help to center you.

 

[Hankerin1075]

It's a lot easier to pump out a few rugrats than it is to work. Our system is so fuck!d.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a new subject. This thread drift has gone full retard.

 

[jbrown329]

You are in a fantasyland if you think housekeepers will ever earn the same as people that have specialized skills. Smoke some dope. It will help to center you.

Nobody is saying that they should make $60K a year. AT $15hr working 40hrs a week, gross income would be $28K a year.

 

[evanrick]

anyways. every seems to forget the topic of this thread. hillary made 250k an hour giving speeches to the richest wall street banks, then didnt release her transcrips. when bernie sanders said the minimum wage should be $15 an hour, Hillary said it should only be $12.

250,000 for Hillary, and 12 for you.

Clinton, the new Bush, out of touch and looking for wars for you to fight and die in.

 

[TX-Beau]

You are in a fantasyland if you think housekeepers will ever earn the same as people that have specialized skills. Smoke some dope. It will help to center you.

How exactly did people get those "specialized" skills?

 

[TX-Beau]

anyways. every seems to forget the topic of this thread. hillary made 250k an hour giving speeches to the richest wall street banks, then didnt release her transcrips. when bernie sanders said the minimum wage should be $15 an hour, Hillary said it should only be $12.

250,000 for Hillary, and 12 for you.

Clinton, the new Bush, out of touch and looking for wars for you to fight and die in.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! How much money did your man Trump inherit?

 

[evanrick]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! How much money did your man Trump inherit?

Probably the same amount Hillary charged the DNC for her acceptance speech.

 

[TX-Beau]

Probably the same amount Hillary charged the DNC for her acceptance speech.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!! How much money did your man Trump inherit?

 

[Hankerin1075]

Nobody is saying that they should make $60K a year. AT $15hr working 40hrs a week, gross income would be $28K a year.

Math is hard for some. You should try again buddy.

 

[rareboy]

I've noticed that spelling is a challenge for some as well.

But if we accept that 2080 hours per year including paid stat holidays represents a full time job....then the total GROSS salary based on $15.00 per hour is $31,200. Assuming that rent and utilities will be about $1500 per month, that takes $18000 off the top. Assuming $10 per day per person for food and grocery items, that can represent $7300 for a couple or at $7.50 per day with a family of four including 2 kids, about $10,950 per year. At this point, the wage earner is just about in a deficit position, so it is either necessary to have a second job or for there to be another wage earner...because, well, there is still clothing, household furnishings and durable goods, cable, telephone, internet and transportation to consider. Oh. And basic healthcare costs like dental, eyeglasses, prescriptions or OTC remedies because no family is going to escape those costs as well.

And of course if we want to move to the dream of home ownership, we now have property taxes and upkeep to work for as well.


And of course, we haven't deducted any withholding from the paycheque for any taxes.

So please. Don't pretend that the people working at $15 per hour are living like kings. They wouldn't even just be getting by.

 

[peeonme]

Math is hard for some. You should try again buddy.

He obviously went with 4 weeks per month and 12 months per year. I always went that route when planning a budget, I nevr counted 5 week months, this gave me a little "bonus" every 3 months or so.

 

[gsdx]

You are in a fantasyland if you think housekeepers will ever earn the same as people that have specialized skills. Smoke some dope. It will help to center you.

When have I ever said that? When? Where? You talk about us putting words in YOUR mouth. I have never said a single word about skilled labour. I have said a lot of words about a decent living and poverty, but never have I said housekeepers should earn skilled level wages.

This entire forum is being overrun by trolls just waiting to coax us into fisticuffs.

 

[rareboy]

He obviously went with 4 weeks per month and 12 months per year. I always went that route when planning a budget, I nevr counted 5 week months, this gave me a little "bonus" every 3 months or so.

1920 to 1970 Hours per year is considered to be a full time equivalent. It is net of vacation and stat holidays. It is probably how most employers would calculate the $15/hour gross salary and benefits rate.

 

[Hankerin1075]

I've noticed that spelling is a challenge for some as well.

But if we accept that 2080 hours per year including paid stat holidays represents a full time job....then the total GROSS salary based on $15.00 per hour is $31,200. Assuming that rent and utilities will be about $1500 per month, that takes $18000 off the top. Assuming $10 per day per person for food and grocery items, that can represent $7300 for a couple or at $7.50 per day with a family of four including 2 kids, about $10,950 per year. At this point, the wage earner is just about in a deficit position, so it is either necessary to have a second job or for there to be another wage earner...because, well, there is still clothing, household furnishings and durable goods, cable, telephone, internet and transportation to consider. Oh. And basic healthcare costs like dental, eyeglasses, prescriptions or OTC remedies because no family is going to escape those costs as well.

And of course if we want to move to the dream of home ownership, we now have property taxes and upkeep to work for as well.


And of course, we haven't deducted any withholding from the paycheque for any taxes.

So please. Don't pretend that the people working at $15 per hour are living like kings. They wouldn't even just be getting by.

Cable? This is hilarious. Living like kings? HaHa. Nobody said that. Oh boy. Everybody just deserves all the luxuries I guess. Is that about it? New wardrobes every season is a requirement too I'm sure. Get real.

 

[rareboy]

^ You really are tone deaf, aren't you?

And of course, I also note that you persist in misrepresenting the arguments of the other posters. For instance, I was thinking about just the basic costs of clothing growing children, work clothing and other basic clothing.
You immediately suggest that I am saying that the entire family should be getting a new wardrobe every season.

I say cable because in many areas now, stations no longer broadcast in analog and there is no reception by aerial. I guess you don't think that the working poor should have television. Or the internet, I suppose. OOOOOOhhhhhhh, they might get uppity.

It is clear that you are one of the reactionary conservatives who believe that the things that you take for granted shouldn't be available to all.

What you want is a class that pays every cent they make to wealthy landlords and to rapacious food chains with nothing remaining.
Because in your eyes, they don't deserve it.

It is nakedly apparent that you have no idea of how the middle class was built and then dismantled in the US.

From what you posted in response, it is clear you've got nothing. Maybe spend a bit of time and learn about economics 101 and how to create and sustain a healthy economy for the greatest number of people in your society.