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Homosexualitybeing a choice...

N

NotAgain

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Why is this even an argument? What is it adding to either sides of the debate? Being gay, I know for a fact that it is not a choice but let's assume, for the sake of arguing, that it is. How does that enrich the other sides opinion of whether it's ok or not? It's like saying that we're not allowed to dislike any food unless we are allergic to it....:confused:

I don't debate much about gay rights and stuff because I'm in the closet, so maybe I'm missing something or haven't thought this through....
 
I know I've heard religious ant-gays use it. The logic is supposed to be that if we were born gay, then that means that God must have ordained it, and therefor it can't be wrong. But since they know that homosexuality is wrong according to the bible, then it must be something we can choose, or else that would make God strangely capricious for making us gay and then deeming it wrong. Obviously, it's a terrible argument that rests on about a dozen faulty assumptions.
 
Religion is the greatest proponent of the 'homosexuality is a choice' argument.

Religion. . . 'Choice'. . .

There are none so blind. . . . . .
 
Harke the Boeotarch said:
NotAgain!

snigger
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I see what you did there! :cool:

Treborf said:
I know I've heard religious ant-gays use it. The logic is supposed to be that if we were born gay, then that means that God must have ordained it, and therefor it can't be wrong. But since they know that homosexuality is wrong according to the bible, then it must be something we can choose, or else that would make God strangely capricious for making us gay and then deeming it wrong. Obviously, it's a terrible argument that rests on about a dozen faulty assumptions.
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The thing is, that in political debates/arguments I've seen the argument being used outside of a religious context. I think by taking that argument seriously we are falling victims and instead of saying that we're proud we're just saying that we can't help ourselves.

gsdx said:
Religion. . . 'Choice'. . .

There are none so blind. . . . . .
Click to expand...

so true
 
NotAgain said:
I see what you did there! :cool:



The thing is, that in political debates/arguments I've seen the argument being used outside of a religious context. I think by taking that argument seriously we are falling victims and instead of saying that we're proud we're just saying that we can't help ourselves.
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1. we kno that it's false so it is an argument to refute. perhaps it doesnt matter whether it's a choice, but it does matter that we win all the arguments, and that's just one more point that they're wrong on.

2. arguments come from opinions that come from all sorts of different ideological viewpoints that usually are being taken out of context. example: interventionist ideology, an argument for invading a country based on policing the world and maintaining long term peace. it's from the failure of neville's appeasement approach with germany, (well really it's far older, but it's current form is almost entirely composed of the germany experience) and now people use that bullshit 'must prevent disaster' approach to countries like iraq and iran, when they're TOTALLY different scenarios and ANY ideological approaches that are consistent are incorrect.

yet it still happens. point being, people are too stupid to place opinions in proper context, so we get political arguments that are influenced by religious arguments, that have no relevency in politics. so yea even if it were a choice it shouldnt matter, but sadly we have to win vs religious ideology in the political realm, and that's just the way it is, and tge good news is that we are winning, and religion is losing, and the more they want to fight this fight, in the end, the worse a loss it'll be for them.... and considering the suicides they are directly contributing to, im not particularly sad over their losses.
 
O.K.....here is what it comes down to.---------Your homosexuality is not a choice. How you FEEL about your homosexuality is a choice. You can go thru your live degrading yourself for not being "just like everybody else" or you can accept and enjoy the fact that sexuality is more that just what you do in the bedroom (though...side note...that's awesome too...;)) and that life has given you a chance to see things from a different (mainly from a more sexually, socially, and politically aware) point of view. ;) (!)..|
 
^ WHAT A GREAT POST! I couldn't agree more, and you said it in so few words.

A good comeback to those who say it's a choice, is to ask them if they could "decide" to be attracted to somebody of their own gender, LOL. Or..."When you knew you could decide whether to like guys or girls, what made you decide to go straight instead of gay?"
 
if it was a choice, i guarantee you that i would have chose to be straight when i was 12 years old when i realized that i probably was gay while i was jerking off to that ad with those oiled up bodybuilders in speedos. the only choice you have is whether you want to deny it or acknowledge and accept it. otherwise, it's there and will be with you until the day you die. you are who you are. no matter how hard you try, you cannot be something that you are not naturally programmed to be. that was a brutal lesson i learned and boy, did it hurt when i had all those unwanted thoughts and feeling sprout out at different times in my life seeing other guys that i thought were hot. the best thing to do at this point is to enjoy it for what it is and say it's okay to be gay.

but for all those people outthere that say that it's a choice or hate this argument or whatever. i don't get it. saying that you were born as a gay person is just no different than saying you were born with the skin color, eye color, genes that you were born with. you didn't have a choice out of the womb you came out of, your father, and etc. you never chose to be gay just as if you were straight, you never chose to be that either. there was some thread in here about gay advocate organizations forcing straight people to forcing that homosexuality is normal and people not agree with it. see, the thing they got wrong is the forcing part. no one is forcing anybody to like homosexuality at all. the only thing that is going on is that it's actually educating the ignorant on what homosexuality is and that it's no different than being straight and that being a homosexual is a harmless characteristic. i feel as if those people are actually making it harder for gay people because they're basically seperating themselves from society instead of being a part of it.
 
NotAgain said:
The thing is, that in political debates/arguments I've seen the argument being used outside of a religious context. I think by taking that argument seriously we are falling victims and instead of saying that we're proud we're just saying that we can't help ourselves
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That argument makes even less sense if it's not based on religion. In any case, the correct response is that it's not a choice and even if it were, there'd be nothing wrong with it. Don't concede either point.
 
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