hooked up with TS

[jktoooo]

I have a friend that was born intersexual. His parents decided to make him a girl. So off came the male parts. He was raised as a girl until he told his parents that he was NOT a girl (he was 13 at the time). Because of what his parents did, he now has to take testosterone. But he has female parts. I'd dare anyone to call him she. He'd rip them a new asshole. And he's got the strength to do it.

Now THAT is a situation i have genuine sympathy for. And quite honestly its hard to blame the parents. Its the medical community that is responsible for that decision, and probably with influence from government on what to do. A more humane thing to do is let the child have ALL sexual parts until they get older and decide for themself what they really feel like, or keep all parts if he/she wants.

 

[jbrown329]

^^ Yeah, they did things differently in the 60's.

 

[bankside]

Now THAT is a situation i have genuine sympathy for. And quite honestly its hard to blame the parents. Its the medical community that is responsible for that decision, and probably with influence from government on what to do. A more humane thing to do is let the child have ALL sexual parts until they get older and decide for themself what they really feel like, or keep all parts if he/she wants.

My point is we should have that sympathy for things we don't understand or at least be aware of the limits of our own medical knowledge before deciding what we do understand. I've thought as much about gender as anyone and I have bones to pick with how lots of people think of gender and how they clearly misunderstand gender among the feminists and transsexuals in the news who proclaim the right to define it. And I have issues with how the "medical industrial complex" creates easy roles for transgender people to be cast into. But I know if I had the "winning theory" of gender it would be enough just to explain it to people and I wouldn't have to get all snotty about it. And I also know bullshit when I hear it and that would be "men are men and women are women." It's deeper than that in ways we haven't explained yet.

 

[red1979]

Tell me Red, usually people with that much willful ignorance and animosity have something to hide.

Willful ignorance? Just because I'm not PC does not mean I am ignorant. I've read reports from several psychiatrists that used to champion the field of sex reassignment cases. They found that years later almost the majority of their patients regretted the irreversible surgeries they had undergone, and several of the patients committed suicide. One even found that groundbreaking studies on one of the first Americans to undergo the process were fabricated (the person was not, just the positive results).

As for animosity? Where have I shown any? My posts have been filled with logical explanations, I have purposefully been staying away from emotional outbursts.

BYW, intolerance is not a bad thing in and of itself, it depends on what you are intolerant of. Being intolerant of anyone whose opinion is different from your own can be considered a bad thing.

if you'd like to argue reality

I find this challenge in this particular debate to be quite interesting. Where can your reality prove that someone who is born with male parts is actually female and vice versa? Using the DSM doesn't count as the majority of what is written up in that is actually voted on based on anectdotal evidence, not hard scientific facts (we just don't understand the brain enough to have those). If our parts don't define what we are why do we have them? Why can't we change our parts like some frogs or fish?

You can take piece of play-doh and shape it into nearly anything you want, but at the end of the day it's still play-doh. Even if it's dried out and retains the shape of whatever you shaped it into. that doesn't change what it is, only how it appears.

 

[red1979]

And I also know bullshit when I hear it and that would be "men are men and women are women." It's deeper than that in ways we haven't explained yet.

I wouldn't say deeper, I'd say broader. We, as a society, pigeon-hole activities, interests, and even personality traits as to belonging to one gender or the other. When we teach our children that a man must be X, Y, and Z and a woman must be A, B, and C, we are telling them that their gender is defined by those things, when the opposite is probably closer to the truth. More than just the children subconsciously learning that, some parents are outright teaching their children that. I read about parents of triplets, (1 girl and two boys) who knew that one of their sons was really a transgender girl because at 18 months old he cried and cried whenever he couldn't hold his sister's pink blanket. Color preferences for gender are completely fabricated by society, so they ruined their son by teaching him that he was really a girl because when he was 1 1/2 he became attached to something that was pink.

 

[bankside]

I wouldn't say deeper, I'd say broader. We, as a society, pigeon-hole activities, interests, and even personality traits as to belonging to one gender or the other. When we teach our children that a man must be X, Y, and Z and a woman must be A, B, and C, we are telling them that their gender is defined by those things, when the opposite is probably closer to the truth. More than just the children subconsciously learning that, some parents are outright teaching their children that. I read about parents of triplets, (1 girl and two boys) who knew that one of their sons was really a transgender girl because at 18 months old he cried and cried whenever he couldn't hold his sister's pink blanket. Color preferences for gender are completely fabricated by society, so they ruined their son by teaching him that he was really a girl because when he was 1 1/2 he became attached to something that was pink.

What's that you were saying about anecdotes being bullshit?

 

[chinchilla]

This thread makes me so sad. I don't want to keep arguing with transphobic bigots so I'm signing off, but I want to say that you should be ashamed of yourselves for your lack of empathy for and solidarity with super important members of our queer community. I also want to say I'm so glad to have seen others defending the trans community.

 

[luckynumbah7]

That wasn't a challenge. You don't know how science determines sex (it's not merely those chromosomes ya'll laud- which reminds me, I know you don't know yours. Does ones stupidity level raise itself when you swear by things you've no understanding in? I think it does). There's at least 7 ways for determine sex for human biology. Sociologically in English there's only 3, genitalia lookswise (and only lookswise), other medically gendered items not necessarily involving what your genitalia look like and then lived experience (with those things) Linguistically you're arguing about pronoun usage, and you're doing that wrong as well since you have little to no understanding with how sex (and the gender category people extrapolate that from) is built.

Some of you could also stand to not mix up gender roles with physiology.

Yeah.....you're not even remotely a challenge.

 

[luckynumbah7]

Also - have ya'll crawled out of your hole just to read Money's horror? Because that's the second time I've seen 'lost a dick' in a month, and that was notable because it's happened exactly once that I've read about. Rather famous case as he was treated as intersex despite not fitting the definition, and he was also trans.

Usually people got assigned female not because they lost their penis but because it was easier to rearrange 'abnormal' genitalia into vulva, ect. Which possibly got rid of the glans while doing so.

Did you lot actually think it was common enough to use as an (always, apparently) 'my cousin was accidentally amputated' example? I'll give that they could've fucked up and lost some glans - but this "his whole dick, gone by accident' is mighty suspicious. That's not how shit worked, even in the sixties.

 

[luckynumbah7]

-granted, given the benefit of the doubt I wouldn't be at all surprised to find people's stories have been.....simplified to fit a wished for narrative instead of what actually tends to occur. I find it funny, and not in a ha-ha way, that people think losing a whole dick is somehow more 'authentic' than having the glans themselves clipped. At a certain point it doesn't matter, it's all the same self-conscious result.

- no, Bankside, I didn't forget about you. But I don't want to deal with your 'notices' and your very badly done, just recently-revealed-after-8-yrs-arguing on jub with moi 'cousin' who I strongly suspect doesn't exist because you've never taken into account intersex theory, activism or basic medical procedures and how they usually occur. Nor did you listen about the general consensus on the differences between needed medical procedures, unneeded medical procedures that interfere with feeling and function, and general practice medical procedures that don't usually have much of an impact. and the gradations therein.. I suspect you're just trying to continue to paint everyone whose been circumcised as mutilated.

Also, go spelunk through the archives. I remember, quite distinctly, describing childhood experiences re;abnormal genitalia and I'm pretty sure the post (one of several over the years, I don't generally bring personal bodyworks up because generally no one knows what I'm talking about. Case in point). I think, if memory served, it involved middle school lockers. So I'm afraid if there's a "you're just saying that cuz you're trans' you can add another check mark to the 'Bankside is being willfully obtuse' box. I don't identify as intersex, even if I can be identified as fitting the definition. And likely you don't understand that, either.

 

[bankside]

MKay tuck your hair back under the tin foil hat and maybe read WHICH thread you're posting in and what I've actually said in it before you reflexively slam my opinion.

assuming you've now done that, so far I've said: sex is not as black-and-white as anti-trans bigotry or ignorance would have us believe; that limited medical insight into the basis of sex should stop people from assuming they know something special about someone else, that for these reasons the individual is the best judge of his or her own sex, that we should defer to the individual to decide about their own sex, and that if they decide to do something surgical about it people need to get over themselves because this is really no different from a (consenting adult) having a nose job to be more comfortable with their bodies. I don't think any of that is especially hostile to your interests.

As for the rest of your spew, wtf. I was taking a good swing at the ignorance in this thread. Surprised, on this subject, to see you add to it.

 

[red1979]

sex is not as black-and-white as anti-trans bigotry or ignorance would have us believe; that limited medical insight into the basis of sex should stop people from assuming they know something special about someone else, that for these reasons the individual is the best judge of his or her own sex, that we should defer to the individual to decide about their own sex

I have depression. It's managed by medication, but that doesn't always work. Sometimes I have episodes where I feel worthless and have even considered suicide a few times. Should my friends and loved ones defer to my judgement about myself? The very nature of Gender Dysphoria should inform us that the individuals who suffer from it have rather biased opinions about their natural-born parts.

 

[bankside]

I have depression. It's managed by medication, but that doesn't always work. Sometimes I have episodes where I feel worthless and have even considered suicide a few times. Should my friends and loved ones defer to my judgement about myself? The very nature of Gender Dysphoria should inform us that the individuals who suffer from it have rather biased opinions about their natural-born parts.

I HOPE your family and friends would step in in the middle of a crisis.

But with transsexuality, people don't usually make decisions about it in the middle of a crisis. Even if they did, there is a very long process of counselling for people to explore and evaluate that decision before any irreversible surgery is allowed.

See how they are different? I would have no problem sitting down and talking about sex and gender with someone who brought forward a personal issue of transsexuality. I would have no problem agreeing or disagreeing with them about gender or sex or sexuality. But if we disagreed, and if I couldn't convince them, I would have no reason to assume they were psychologically unsound.

 

[hjsimp_992]

either way, ate and fucked a pussy that was ready for me

 

[sultrysam]

either way, ate and fucked a pussy that was ready for me

How does it compare to guys? How often do you think you'll be seeking out FTM guys for hookups or even relationships now?

 

[hjsimp_992]

I would not mind a FTM once and a while, or just regular female. Enjoyed his hairy ass too