"How Bernie Sanders Lost Me... And Hillary Clinton Won Me Over"

[Alnitak]

To make it easy to understand, democrats have lost elections not because their candidates were too liberal, but because they were not liberal enough.

Where have I heard that before....

 

[Alnitak]

I feel like this is stuff I have already read from supporters trying to convince me why she is better. Sorry still not interested.

She isn't better. That's the irony.

 

[eastofeden]

He makes good points.

As much as I like Bernie..I am not sure I would support him even if Clinton wasn't running.....though of course I would vote for him or ANYONE running as a Democrat in this election.

The mainstream politicians I love ...actually "love"...is a short list....

I love Jimmy Carter...I love Barbara Boxer...I love Nancy Pelosi...and I loved Ann Richards...

The problem for me with Bernie...he reminds me of Donald Trump a bit...but only in one aspect. That aspect....he says what he knows people want to hear...but has no prayer of getting 99% of it done. Unfortunately..Donald has a better chance than he does if he has the Senate and the House...YIKES.....

Does he think moderate Democrats in moderate or conservative states want to commit political suicide to give him support? That means EVEN MORE REPUBLICANS!!!!

Of course..he isn't a Democrat so maybe he doesn't really care how many Republicans there are...

Does he just get a pass for ignoring this quite serious proposition?...or for misleading the people who think he can actually make these changes because they don't see the big picture?....

Hillary sold me as Secretary of State. Before that...not so much. Her grasp of reality and her brilliant statesmanship as well as her inside knowledge on how to get things done..three qualities that make my decision easy....

 

[nycguydowntown]

Hillary was a great senator---she worked with both sides and got a lot done. Her 11 hours of questions by a bunch of rabid dogs shows how strong and smart she is. Fact--The VAST majority of voters in this country are moderate independents. NO Liberal/Progressive has been elected president in this country a far a I can remember. Obama got elected because of the mess the country was in 2008---as someone said, "when you are drowning you don't care if your lifeguard is black with a Muslim name" You can vent all you want with Trump or Sanders---it sounds good and lot's of it is true and important---but the gop have created a mess in this country with one constitutional crisis after another and they are NEVER punished by voters for it. Sanders will lose in a landslide---Trump won't. And that's all you need to know about this country left vs right. What dems say they are punished for ---if it sounds extreme---what gop says---even if it is lies like Iraq was great war and Bush keep us safe they are rewarded for. It's a CENTER RIGHT country---that's not being cynical---that's knowing history and being real.

 

[Sausy]

Hillary is no doubt very intelligent and capable. I just don't think she has any particular set of scruples... does not have the great sales skills of her husband, either. If she weren't married to Bill while he was politically powerful as Arkansas governor and President of the United States, she wouldn't warrant a second thought as presidential material. This women whom Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright shilled for as the person any right thinking feminist MUST support over Bernie (under penalty of being consigned to a "special place in hell") depends on being tied to a certain man for her post First Lady career. Yes, she can do the job well enough but she isn't a trailblazer... she used Bill Clinton as a springboard(of course he's totally okay with it.... after all his dalliances he damn better indulge her biggest desire... being Madame President).

I'll vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, which is likely. I CAN'T go for the GOP as it is now. However, I respectfully submit that this piece does nothing for me.... if the author genuinely feels that way, fine. Hillary over a bunch of GOP swine is making the best choice of a bad lot. We ought to expect and get better, not stay resigned to the current way of doing things. A vote for Hillary from me will be a most reluctant, if at this current time unfortunately necessary, one.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Apparently Bernie Sanders lies, misleads and says what people want to hear. I mean, are people willfully ignoring the fact that Hillary does the same thing? How are you going to honestly make some of these criticisms of a candidate but then support one that does the same? Vote for who you think is best for you, but stop the hypocrisy and being disingenuous about the candidate you support.

I will not pretend Bernie Sanders is perfect and believe he will get everything through that he is talking about. But don't act like Hillary is perfect and will be able to do everything she is talking about. Which by the way is incorporating more of Bernies ideals to appeal to his voters, but let's ignore that about her too.

 

[hotatlboi]

I'm more motivated by historical example than cynicism. In my lifetime, Democrats have failed to front electable candidates multiple times or get single payer healthcare even during a time of overwhelming power.

That was also many moons ago and people tend to have rose colored glasses.

I thought Bernie would be the weaker candidate for the general too but now I'm not so sure. He polls better than Hillary in general matchups currently, he's pulling in just as many if not more independents, and I've heard quite a few Republicans say they despise Hillary but they at least respect Bernie because he is honest and authentic. He also has some crossover appeal with Trump supporters as an anti-establishment candidate.

 

[BenDan]

I feel like this is stuff I have already read from supporters trying to convince me why she is better. Sorry still not interested.

Yeah I agree

and the "poor Hillary" routine is absurd on just so many levels

It's just so lame to attempt to portray Hillary as somehow a victim

The piece, this piece, has been done daily with a different author and still falls flat

"We can't" is their motto

 

[Rolyo85]

Re: "How Bernie Sanders Lost Me... And Hillary Clinton Won Me Over"

You're trying to advance your favorite candidate. We're not stupid.


Don't flatter yourself. Long time Hillary supporters weren't your target audience here.



First of all, I wasn't just referencing your reply to me, but your replies to all of "us", meaning Sanders supporters who replied in this thread. Your behavior was like that of a three year old who just found out not everyone in the world thinks like him.

Secondly, if Sanders actually had done anything illegal he'd be in jail by now. No way the DNC and Hillary would be allowing him to roam free unless they had no choice.

1. Everyone is trying to advance their candidate. Evanrick's laughable around the clock Hillary-bashing isn't because he doesn't want Bernie to win. We're not stupid. So please, spare me the "gotcha" attitude, I wasn't on some covert operation.

2. My target is everyone. I like a good echo chamber as much as the next guy.

3. Oh, so you agree that Hillary hasn't done anything illegal either, yes? Or by your admission, she'd be in jail.

- - - Updated - - -

And we keep trying to tell you that we don't find them compelling. You're starting to remind me of the door to door salesman that thinks if he keeps talking he'll make the sale.

I don't know what you "keep trying", I literally just got back to the forum, and I am woefully uninterested in how compelling you find anything about me

 

[Rolyo85]

He makes good points.

As much as I like Bernie..I am not sure I would support him even if Clinton wasn't running.....though of course I would vote for him or ANYONE running as a Democrat in this election.

The mainstream politicians I love ...actually "love"...is a short list....

I love Jimmy Carter...I love Barbara Boxer...I love Nancy Pelosi...and I loved Ann Richards...

The problem for me with Bernie...he reminds me of Donald Trump a bit...but only in one aspect. That aspect....he says what he knows people want to hear...but has no prayer of getting 99% of it done. Unfortunately..Donald has a better chance than he does if he has the Senate and the House...YIKES.....

Does he think moderate Democrats in moderate or conservative states want to commit political suicide to give him support? That means EVEN MORE REPUBLICANS!!!!

Of course..he isn't a Democrat so maybe he doesn't really care how many Republicans there are...

Does he just get a pass for ignoring this quite serious proposition?...or for misleading the people who think he can actually make these changes because they don't see the big picture?....

Hillary sold me as Secretary of State. Before that...not so much. Her grasp of reality and her brilliant statesmanship as well as her inside knowledge on how to get things done..three qualities that make my decision easy....

What is this?! Somebody "buying" what I'm selling "door to door"?! Somebody finding what I posted "compelling"?! GASP!

 

[Rolyo85]

Apparently Bernie Sanders lies, misleads and says what people want to hear. I mean, are people willfully ignoring the fact that Hillary does the same thing? How are you going to honestly make some of these criticisms of a candidate but then support one that does the same? Vote for who you think is best for you, but stop the hypocrisy and being disingenuous about the candidate you support.

I will not pretend Bernie Sanders is perfect and believe he will get everything through that he is talking about. But don't act like Hillary is perfect and will be able to do everything she is talking about. Which by the way is incorporating more of Bernies ideals to appeal to his voters, but let's ignore that about her too.

Well, for one thing, Hillary doesn't have to make up endorsements, she's just getting them. And more - far more - importantly, Bernie is running on the premise of being genuine and not playing the game. So yes, he does get judged for doing the same thing as everyone, when he's based his entire campaign on the claim that he doesn't.

 

[Vitamin]

1. Everyone is trying to advance their candidate. Evanrick's laughable around the clock Hillary-bashing isn't because he doesn't want Bernie to win. We're not stupid. So please, spare me the "gotcha" attitude, I wasn't on some covert operation.

2. My target is everyone. I like a good echo chamber as much as the next guy.

3. Oh, so you agree that Hillary hasn't done anything illegal either, yes? Or by your admission, she'd be in jail.

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I don't know what you "keep trying", I literally just got back to the forum, and I am woefully uninterested in how compelling you find anything about me

What is this?! Somebody "buying" what I'm selling "door to door"?! Somebody finding what I posted "compelling"?! GASP!

1. At least evanrick doesn't throw a tempertantrum when someone doesn't see his side. Yes, plenty of people here want to sell their candidates, you just do it so badly it's hilarious.

2. Then why care so much when other people don't see your POV? You think telling us to eat crow is going to change our minds?

3. Never did I say Hillary has done anything illegal. Seriously, are really that thick not to check that out?

Oh, and good job with eastofeden, another lifetime Hillary supporter. So many converts seeing the light because of you, all praise be to Queen Hillary Rodham!

 

[EddMarkStarr]

I like Bernie but when he had an opportunity to be gracious in victory, he continued to hammer on his campaign message. I want Bernie to be more nimble on his feet, able to "read" situations in a more relaxed style. But that may not be Bernie's style, lol.

 

[rareboy]

Now everyone simmer down.

I love Bernie. I really do. He's so Canadian.

When we visited his offices in Burlington Vermont in the fall, I wanted to donate to his campaign but of course, they couldn't accept.

But they gave me a T-shirt that I wore around the Harvest Fest and over the weekend so that everyone would know how highly I regarded him. I had many conversations with people about our 'Canadians for Bernie' movement.

But I also have a huge amount of respect for Hillary. One of our good friends was on an advisory council for her while she was SoS and I think that after her loss to Obama in 2008...she really shone in this role.

At the end of the day, I would be happy with either of these two and sometimes I think it is a shame that the Democrats aren't celebrating the fact that they are putting up two of the best candidates possible for President...instead of knocking one another about.

For domestic policy, I would choose Bernie to push the US as far to the left as possible...but I know the US and it is now structured to prevent the kind of New Deal policies that saved it under Roosevelt.

My greatest fear is that in this cycle, it won't matter which is elected, but that they will be a one term President having to work with a hostile, gerrymandered Congress and Republican old guard Senate.

 

[eastofeden]

1. At least evanrick doesn't throw a tempertantrum when someone doesn't see his side. Yes, plenty of people here want to sell their candidates, you just do it so badly it's hilarious.

2. Then why care so much when other people don't see your POV? You think telling us to eat crow is going to change our minds?

3. Never did I say Hillary has done anything illegal. Seriously, are really that thick not to check that out?

Oh, and good job with eastofeden, another lifetime Hillary supporter. So many converts seeing the light because of you, all praise be to Queen Hillary Rodham!

Lifetime supporter?...LOL..not even close....not even in the right ball field....

Too bad the board is gone now or I could go back and quote pages of my remarks about Hillary in 2007 and 2008.....though I didn't have the venom you guys do and I have never really disliked her....I certainly did NOT consider her an option....and I wasn't a fan...

Since then...she won me over completely by her ACTIONS as Secretary of State...period....

 

[Vitamin]

Lifetime supporter?...LOL..not even close....not even in the right ball field....

Too bad the board is gone now or I could go back and quote pages of my remarks about Hillary in 2007 and 2008.....though I didn't have the venom you guys do and I have never really disliked her....I certainly did NOT consider her an option....and I wasn't a fan...

Since then...she won me over completely by her ACTIONS as Secretary of State...period....

The point is that Rolyo has done nothing to convince you of Hillary's wonders.

 

[Alnitak]

Now everyone simmer down.

No way, American primaries are a unique spectacle. It's getting so hot on Facebook I have run out of popcorn.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Well, for one thing, Hillary doesn't have to make up endorsements, she's just getting them. And more - far more - importantly, Bernie is running on the premise of being genuine and not playing the game. So yes, he does get judged for doing the same thing as everyone, when he's based his entire campaign on the claim that he doesn't.

So if we asked Hillary Clinton if she was misleading, lied or did anything for the sake of votes, she would say yes to all this? Give me a break.

Hillary Clinton would also claim her campaign was genuine and honest.

 

[eastofeden]

The point is that Rolyo has done nothing to convince you of Hillary's wonders.

I was responding specifically to the "another lifetime Hillary supporter".....and I'm not.

 

[eastofeden]

So if we asked Hillary Clinton if she was misleading, lied or did anything for the sake of votes, she would say yes to all this? Give me a break.

Hillary Clinton would also claim her campaign was genuine and honest.

IF Bernie...or anyone...is going to paint themselves with that brush..they are asking for the criticism since they built the template..and the frame..themselves.

I have already said ...more than once...that I KNOW Hilary lies/misleads. And yes...I still think she is the best qualified candidate from either side of the aisle..but she ain't no saint...

Maybe I missed the part where any of the people feelin' the Bern have acknowledged that he is also ..ah....
"misleading"...

I might give him a pass and say he is delusional...like Donald who has never been in Congress...but after 30 years as part of the establishment..he is quite aware of the dynamics and he understands EXACTLY what is is "misleading" people about