How can any gay man be a Republican?

[pat grimshaw]

So, Kuli, you're a Lapsed Republican?

 

[bobbybee]

Please translate your comment into English

How can any gay man be a Republican?

Very easily. The folks who turned in the Frank family (remember Anne Frank?) were members of the Schutzstaffel (SS). They were Jews.

 

[Kulindahr]

So, Kuli, you're a Lapsed Republican?

"Lapsed" hardly describes it. The term implies drifting or falling away. I didn't drift; I marched.

If it were still the party of Lincoln and of Goldwater, I'd still be there. But it's the party of plunderers and bigots, instead.

 

[pat grimshaw]

^ I sympathise; my country's oldest political party used to represent the working class but now it's been infiltrated by slimy PR merchants who pander to the aspirational middle classes.

 

[rareboy]

How can any gay man be a Republican?

Very easily. The folks who turned in the Frank family (remember Anne Frank?) were members of the Schutzstaffel (SS). They were Jews.

There are some posters here on JUB who would probably help sew the pink triangles on the rest of us if their reactionary conservative masters asked them to.

 

[Benvolio]

The answer to the question remains. There are far more important things in the word than gay marriage. Being gay is not a good reason to chose a political party. As for hatred, the Democrat hatred for those who disagree with them if far worse than that which a few vocal Republicans feel for gays.
Scroll through the posts on the above thread and you will easily see that the intensity of Democrat hatred for Conservatives/Republicans. How could any Conservative belong to the Democrats who hate him?

 

[Rolyo85]

Wow. Denial much?

And no, there aren't that many more important things in the world than gay marriage if you're gay. Even if you are not interested in getting married yourself, gay marriage is the biggest step towards equality and the end of publicly acceptable homophobia. Are you going to tell me that there are more important things than that too?

Oh, and your attempt to try and make GOP homophobia into something fringey that happens only in some very small part of it is laughable.

 

[chrisrobin]

Please translate your comment into English

Vote Republican!

After President Santorum is inaugurated, yours might be on the first load!

 

[Benvolio]

Your belief that all Democrats love gays is laughable, and your posture that all Republicans hate gays is as well. Democrat politicians pander to gays, and Republicans do not, but the feeling of ordinary members of both parties is, in my experience, very little different. The evangelical Christians do not approve of gay sex and get all the publicity, but the largely Democrat Catholic Church also does not. Most Republicans do not think the definition of marriage should be changed to accommodate gays, but marriage is legal in all states although in most the state does not get involved. If a gay couple want to have a marriage, with tuxedos, in church, with a reception and cake, a honeymoon and live happily ever after, no one is stopping them. For about 1800 years that is what a marriage was in the western world. Only recently did the government start to meddle. Marriage licenses did not come into being until about 1880. A common-law marriage-- consisting of consensual sex plus a holding of themselves out as husband and wife for at least a day, no license, no minister or judge--is still legal in 16 states. The desire of gays for government involvement is of miniscule importance compared with the big issues confronting all of us.

 

[Rolyo85]

I do not believe that all Democrats are pro-gay and all Republicans are anti-gay. I believe that CURRENTLY the Democrat party is looking after our interests and the Republican party is ACTIVELY working against them. What particular members of those parties believe is completely irrelevant to me. I am looking at what the party itself - or those in charge of it - are doing.

Also, I am not interested in beliefs. What you or anybody else thinks marriage should be is irrelevant for the purpose of this topic. What matters is what the situation IS. This isn't about political ideas, it's about inequality, and who is ACTIVELY FIGHTING to sustain that inequality. The GOP is actively fighting to sustain it. That's a fact. The Democrats might be all kinds of worse, I don't know. They aren't, however, going on massive rants about how I am an abomination and need to die in a gutter or at least get CURED...

 

[Kulindahr]

The answer to the question remains. There are far more important things in the word than gay marriage. Being gay is not a good reason to chose a political party. As for hatred, the Democrat hatred for those who disagree with them if far worse than that which a few vocal Republicans feel for gays.
Scroll through the posts on the above thread and you will easily see that the intensity of Democrat hatred for Conservatives/Republicans. How could any Conservative belong to the Democrats who hate him?

I haven't noticed Democrats trying to stifle the free speech, freedom of expression, and freedom of association of conservatives -- at least, it's not in their party platform.

Interesting how you spin this, making gay marriage the issue. That's not an issue, it's a symptom; the issue is liberty, is equality. Now, what issues are more important than equality?

I do not believe that all Democrats are pro-gay and all Republicans are anti-gay. I believe that CURRENTLY the Democrat party is looking after our interests and the Republican party is ACTIVELY working against them. What particular members of those parties believe is completely irrelevant to me. I am looking at what the party itself - or those in charge of it - are doing.

Also, I am not interested in beliefs. What you or anybody else thinks marriage should be is irrelevant for the purpose of this topic. What matters is what the situation IS. This isn't about political ideas, it's about inequality, and who is ACTIVELY FIGHTING to sustain that inequality. The GOP is actively fighting to sustain it. That's a fact. The Democrats might be all kinds of worse, I don't know. They aren't, however, going on massive rants about how I am an abomination and need to die in a gutter or at least get CURED...

What's really relevant for this discussion is that the two sides are speaking different languages. What anti-gays say "marriage", even though the sound is the same they're not saying the same thing supporters of liberty mean when the same sound comes out of their mouths. It's like two different languages with the same "word", i.e. the same sound -- for example, taken from the show "Top Gear", in one country f Europe you don't want to call your automobile a "car", because that particular "word" in the local language means "make genitals".

So with the word/sound "marriage". To one side it means "an institution established and ordained by God to bind a male and a female in a union with a unity resembling the unity of God and for expressing the devotion of Christ to the Church and the Church to Christ, from which offspring are to emerge for the perpetuation of church and 'tribe'"; to the other it means "a governmental category defining a type of relationship between persons which for societal reasons bestows certain specific legal privileges and status".

So we're talking past each other. For those who know that the problem is that really we're speaking two different languages, it's entirely possible to state, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" but at the same time say, "two people of the same sex must be free to marry; in fact; whoever wants to consensually join with others doesn't have to limit himself to two" -- and both are true, without contradiction, because the sound"marriage" is not the same word/meaning in the two different languages.

 

[chrisrobin]

1. Actually, Catholics are 50/50 Republican/Democratic.

2. But Ben, homophobic laws are written directly into the Republican Party platform.

Ben, there are five stages of grief. You're going through the first one: denial.

Stage One rocks!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWP-AsG5DRk[/ame]

 

[TheFireGod]

A common-law marriage-- consisting of consensual sex plus a holding of themselves out as husband and wife for at least a day, no license, no minister or judge--is still legal in 16 states. The desire of gays for government involvement is of miniscule importance compared with the big issues confronting all of us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

While a number of U.S. states recognize either same-sex marriage, or domestic partnerships with the same legal incidents, as marriage, no U.S. state except Iowa, where the law is untested, currently recognizes same sex common-law marriages. The Federal Defense of Marriage Act permits any state to not recognize same-sex marriages from another state, and provides that the federal government will not recognize any same-sex marriages.

But yes, marriage became a government affair when they started issuing marriage licenses and gave heterosexual married couples tax breaks and benefits, when gay and unmarried straight couples pay more taxes.

 

[Kulindahr]

@Benvolio --
the only thing I can think of at the moment that the Republican Party has going for it that might be an issue big enough to match gay rights is its support of the right to keep and bear arms. On financial issues they're morons, on the issue of corporations they're morons... or they're deliberately aiming at a fascist state.

 

[palbert]

There will never be a shortage of idiots - on either side.

 

[MrSnikners]

The answer to the question remains. There are far more important things in the word than gay marriage. Being gay is not a good reason to chose a political party.

I have come to abhor that 'Big Tent' mentality. It is geared toward sewing up voting blocs based on myopic vantage points. And the notion that one should not concern themselves with much else, that is, to the point that it would cause them to create waves and/or stop them from voting for said party.

The irony of Democrats v. Republicans IMHO is that they have become two sides of the same coin. The elite of both parties differ little when it comes to amassing power(and assaulting civil liberties & freedoms in the process). As well as knowing how to keep/get their base in line.



I must say also it continues to amaze me the dictates others try to put on individuals for simply belonging to any certain group. The judgement and condemnation never ends, but it is how one responds to it that ultimately
makes the difference in conducting their life.

 

[purpilia25]

Different views does not equal "twerp."

I am gay, I am Republican. It is important to remember when discussing politics that the crazy people that make up the Senate and House aren't great representations of our belief systems. Republicans hate Pelosi. Are all Democrats like Pelosi? No. Democrats hate Limbaugh. Are all Republicans Limbaugh? Hell fucking no.

Please respect each other's different values. Don't call me names like "twerp" or "self-hating" because of my political views. That is what has ruined the government as it is. No compromise, no respect, and no interest in the greater good.

My parents own small businesses, the Republicans in our district vote in favor of policies which have helped us. Do I like where the GOP is headed as a whole? No! But do I think the Dems offer anything better? Do I think the big wigs whole-heartedly care about me as a gay man? Not at all, they just want my vote. Yes I am conflicted. But I want to see change in my party. There are several Republicans voting for marriage equality. That is a far greater victory then destroying the party. Lets change people's views instead of silencing them!! We all have different backgrounds, we all can't agree on everything. Better to be nice then hateful.

Besides, if you agree with everything your party says then you might want to reevaluate their stances. You better serve your country by challenging you politicians to change rather then being a yes man.

 

[hotatlboi]

Re: Different views does not equal "twerp."

I am gay, I am Republican. It is important to remember when discussing politics that the crazy people that make up the Senate and House aren't great representations of our belief systems. Republicans hate Pelosi. Are all Democrats like Pelosi? No. Democrats hate Limbaugh. Are all Republicans Limbaugh? Hell fucking no.

Please respect each other's different values. Don't call me names like "twerp" or "self-hating" because of my political views. That is what has ruined the government as it is. No compromise, no respect, and no interest in the greater good.

My parents own small businesses, the Republicans in our district vote in favor of policies which have helped us. Do I like where the GOP is headed as a whole? No! But do I think the Dems offer anything better? Do I think the big wigs whole-heartedly care about me as a gay man? Not at all, they just want my vote. Yes I am conflicted. But I want to see change in my party. There are several Republicans voting for marriage equality. That is a far greater victory then destroying the party. Lets change people's views instead of silencing them!! We all have different backgrounds, we all can't agree on everything. Better to be nice then hateful.

Besides, if you agree with everything your party says then you might want to reevaluate their stances. You better serve your country by challenging you politicians to change rather then being a yes man.

No but that's why I don't understand why gay people would stay in the Republican party. The party used to have more diverse representation. But it has undergone a 'purification' effort in recent years which has left almost everyone who is an elected member a complete lunatic on almost all social/religious issues.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Different views does not equal "twerp."

Why the fixation on Pelosi? What's wrong with Pelosi? I don't get why some people hate her so much. I don't understand how LGBT people can be part of the republican party. I just don't understand it... I'm sorry. I never will understand it.

She picks and chooses what parts of the Bill of Rights she likes, is possibly the biggest.

She's very effective at what she does, is definitely a competitor.

 

[evanrick]

Being gay is hardly the most important thing in the world and should not dictate your vote. More important are, what kind of economy should we have? Democrats reject Capitalism, so what do they want? How long can we continue to borrow trillionS a year before it comes to a screeching halt? Do we want to replace the people and culture of America with an entirely different people and culture through massive abortion of millions, and replacement through immigration?
How can you possibly vote Democrat whey they do not or cannot tell us what the new economy they want to impose on us will look like?

You realize Obama and Bush both borrowed trillions to SAVE capitalism from itself, yet you say democrats are anti-capitalists? Baseless accusation.

As for abortion, another baseless brainwashed accusation you have made against liberals and democrats. Abortions occur much more frequently in poor republican dominated areas because the people are stupid and practice incest at higher rates.

Democrats are interested in YOUR rights to YOUR body and Democrats walk the talk but republicans are full of shit on the abortion issue. So, another baseless accusation against democrats.

As for a new economy, I havent heard any democrats saying they want to impose anything on us so i dont know where you are getting that idea from. Perhaps you could tell us what you mean?

You may be buying into whatever propaganda the 1% would have you believe or believe yourself to be a part of it. You may believe that democrats are this or that because others have told you, but the facts just dont bear out any of your points im afraid.