How come Confucius teachings sounds much better than the 3 Abrahamic religions ?

[kallipolis]

By contrast, the Abrahamic traditions simply state what is correct and fundamentally true according to their requisite God-figure. There is little in the way of dynamic engagement; only a threat of punishment or a promise of reward if said laws are breached or fulfilled.

This is popular folklore, even fiction often repeated Ad Nauseum by atheist detractors claiming to know something about the theology of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

When relating specifically to Christian theology Paul of Tarsus sums up its golden rule in a few lines:

Romans 13

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

and, "do unto others, as you would have them do unto you."~ Luke 6:31

Confucianism wisdom also weaves its way through the Jewish, Christian and Islamic scriptures to remind us that the creator will always have his way of guiding us, no matter the religion or, code of ethics or, philosophical reasoning.

It is no secret that Aristotelianism had a profound influence on philosophical and theological thinking in the Islamic and Jewish traditions in the Middle Ages, and it continues to influence Christian theology, especially the scholastic tradition of the Catholic Church.

 

[kallipolis]

I never heard confucianism have any rituals.

Maybe you are confused with ancestor worships, spiritual worships such as fire cracker the ghosts/spirits away. They are way before Confucianism.

Then you have ignored my posts where I have quoted from material that relates to the rituals practised by followers of Confucius.

To refresh your memory, I will requote:

Followers of Confucius have created various modes of behaviour of Li (a ritualised formality in particular circumstances) which demands certain protocols to be observed. Li ranges from a bow to an elder, taking off shoes before entering the house, being silent and respectful to elders, bringing a gift to the host, and writing thank-you notes to a helper. Many in Chinese society consider a serious transgression of Li as a violation of the law.(Confucian Analects, attributed to Confucius). The original purpose of Li is to assist the human person to express respectful consideration for other people through creative ways of building and maintaining caring relationships when gestures also evidence this respect.

and

I quote from Lin Yutang, The Wisdom of Confucius.:

What I have learned is this, that of all things that people live by, Li is the greatest. Without Li, we do not know how to conduct a proper worship of the spirits of the universe; or how to establish the proper status of the king and the ministers, the rule and the ruled, and the elders and the juniors; or how to establish the moral relationships between the sexes; between parents and children, and between brothers; or how to distinguish the different degrees of relationship in the family. That is why a gentleman holds Li in such high regard.

 

[zoltanspawn]

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between philosophy and religion.

What it may in fact show is an interesting disagreement about what a religion is.

You've suggested that a religion must involve 'worshipping.'

My sense is that worship is a regular part of the way Confucianism is practiced.

Perhaps an admonition to worship is absent from the canon...but the written word is not a full account of what a religion is.

 

[zoltanspawn]

If you say Communism, capitalism, stalinism, Nazism, Facism are religions,
yes Confucianism is a religion too then.

Religion to me means something to do with the supernatural.
There is no supernatural in Confucianism.

If you do even more reading on the world's religions you'll find a portion that aren't supernatural. You'll practice better diction if you say supernatural when you mean that, and say religion when you intend a broader meaning.

 

[Telstra]

What it may in fact show is an interesting disagreement about what a religion is.

You've suggested that a religion must involve 'worshipping.'

My sense is that worship is a regular part of the way Confucianism is practiced.

Perhaps an admonition to worship is absent from the canon...but the written word is not a full account of what a religion is.

Looks like a Cultural show to me.
Is Cultural show religious?

Also, i noticed they doing this for the camera. There were no audience.

 

[kallipolis]

^ The video clearly shows an elaborate religious ceremony.

Don't tell me that your prejudices are getting in the way of the facts - yet, again.

 

[Telstra]

^ The video clearly shows an elaborate religious ceremony.

Don't tell me that your prejudices are getting in the way of the facts - yet, again.

Looks like Hollywood production to me.

This sort of ceremony doesn't happen every week unlike the Christians, Muslims and the jews ...

 

[kallipolis]

Looks like Hollywood production to me.

This sort of ceremony doesn't happen every week unlike the Christians, Muslims and the jews ...

It occurs to me that your appetite for ignoring the obvious is over whelming.

The ceremony was beautifully recorded on video for you to appreciate that such a religious ritual is also a fact of life among devotees of Confucianism.

They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but they cannot see; Psalm 135:16

 

[Telstra]

There you go,
If you called this rituals ... fine but i called it arts.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woDJi-ta5JI[/ame]

 

[terryboy]

Confucianism is not a religion.

Confucianism is a set of 'thoughts' which is why in Chinese it's called 儒家思想 (Rujia SiXiang) literally translated as 'thoughts and considerations of RuJia'

The word 儒 Ru was used by ancient Chinese to address the scholars. It means 'elegance' and 'harmony'.

The word 家 Jia simply means 'house'.

Ancestral worship is a part of the chinese culture, it's their way to show filial piety to their forefathers and filial piety is a value stressed by Confucius.

If you see the Chinese worshiping something else, that's because they also believe in Taoism or Chinese folk religion.

 

[kallipolis]

^One opinion is as valid as another; this obviously hinges on ones definition of religion. Confucianism can certainly be 'practised' as a religion, a structure for living life, a tradition to build upon, and an understanding to seek upon.

 

[Telstra]

^One opinion is as valid as another; this obviously hinges on ones definition of religion. Confucianism can certainly be 'practised' as a religion, a structure for living life, a tradition to build upon, and an understanding to seek upon.

Ok, let us make a definition of religion shall we.
Preaching people things without evidence is a religion.

And abrahamic religions are the main offenders.

 

[zoltanspawn]

It ridiculous the lengths to which we must go to avoid using the word 'religion.' All because whatever religion is, it's first and foremost bad.

Let's compromise.

Confucianism a 'cultural thingy' that may include other thingys like ceremonie, ritual, worship, sacred raiment and architecture, philosophy, ethical considerations, folk practices and formal texts. I even found one historical example of a neo-Confucian school that was--hold on to your pants!--theistic!

I think it's sort of awkward word choice, but I can hang with it.

 

[Telstra]

^ How cum Communism, capitalism, stalinism, Nazism, Facism are not religions ?

 

[zoltanspawn]

But it's not one. I think many have gone over this. Confucianism is a sort of philosophy and way of living that does not induce religion (belief system on god or god).

Is this the sticking point?

Belief in god(s) (theism) is not the same thing as religion. There are plenty of examples of non-theistic religions to be found. (And as I mentioned above, there is at least one example of a theistic take on Confucianism.)

One can believe in the teachings of Confucius yet be of a different religion like Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, etc.

Not all religions command exclusive adherence. I think there are probably more than a few Christians who believe they can follow Christ and also believe in Confucian religion.

Many Buddhists do not consider Buddhism a religion. Case in point.

Many would say Buddhism is more philosophy than religion, others would say Buddhism is an atheistic religion, others might even provide examples in which Buddhism is a theistic-atheist religion.

 

[kallipolis]

Confucianism is not theism. It does not infer the belief in god or a superior being. There may be theistic takes on Confucianism, but Confucianism alone isn't a religion nor is it theism.



Confucianism is not a religion. It's a philosophy. Atheists can follow Confucianism. And many do in China.

Keep repeating your assertion and you might just come to believe it.

 

[terryboy]

For many centuries, Confucianism has been regarded as 'thoughts' by the Chinese, However, during the Han dynasty, one of the emperors declared Confucius Religion as the National Religion. Confucius Religion itself is different from Confucianism in the sense that it has metaphysical / supernatural elements that Confucianism does not have.

Many schools of Buddhism today deviate from the original Buddha teaching that is non-theistic. The same happens to Confucianism. The original teaching is non-theistic. Confucianism even influenced the Hui Chinese (chinese muslim) and they came out with their own version of scripture (Han Kitab)

The debate that we are having has been going on since the 16th century. It's true that one can be practicing Confucianism and at the same time, believe in another religion eg Christianity. If we ask that person what is his/her religion.. what will be the answer?

Ask any Chinese what is his / her religion, they will not answer Confucianism, at least none that i know of, being a Chinese myself. If you ask if they believe in / practice Confucianism, they will say 'yes', in some ways.

If you consider drinking coffee every morning as a religion, then Confucianism is also a religion.

 

[kallipolis]

^The thought struck me that if Confucianism is not a religion, then coffee drinkers should be much less religious in their devotion to the art of coffee drinking.

 

[zoltanspawn]

For many centuries, Confucianism has been regarded as 'thoughts' by the Chinese, However, during the Han dynasty, one of the emperors declared Confucius Religion as the National Religion. Confucius Religion itself is different from Confucianism in the sense that it has metaphysical / supernatural elements that Confucianism does not have.

Many schools of Buddhism today deviate from the original Buddha teaching that is non-theistic. The same happens to Confucianism. The original teaching is non-theistic. Confucianism even influenced the Hui Chinese (chinese muslim) and they came out with their own version of scripture (Han Kitab)

The debate that we are having has been going on since the 16th century. It's true that one can be practicing Confucianism and at the same time, believe in another religion eg Christianity. If we ask that person what is his/her religion.. what will be the answer?

Ask any Chinese what is his / her religion, they will not answer Confucianism, at least none that i know of, being a Chinese myself. If you ask if they believe in / practice Confucianism, they will say 'yes', in some ways.

If you consider drinking coffee every morning as a religion, then Confucianism is also a religion.

Thanks for your contribution, Terryboy. Welcome to JUB.

I wish you the temerity to continue posting on Confucianism and Confucius religion and the tangled, old debate we're enjoying.

Do you know much about Confucianism as it's practiced across geographical boundaries, too? Korea, Chinese immigrant communities, Japan, etc?

 

[terryboy]

Thanks for your contribution, Terryboy. Welcome to JUB.

I wish you the temerity to continue posting on Confucianism and Confucius religion and the tangled, old debate we're enjoying.

Do you know much about Confucianism as it's practiced across geographical boundaries, too? Korea, Chinese immigrant communities, Japan, etc?

Thanks zoltanspawn

I am a malaysian chinese, so i can answer on the chinese immigrant part. My ex bf is a Japanese, so i can also answer on the japanese part. I dont know anything about Korean though.

Chinese immigrants are the ones who preserve the traditions, mainland chinese have lost much of their heritage because of the communist cultural revolution in the 1960s - 80s era.
At the moment, Confucianism is sort of experiencing a 'revival' in China.

For some of the chinese immigrants, the basic principles are something that they teach to the younger ones. I come from a more conservative family and since i was young, I was taught that Xiao 孝 (filial piety) is the highest of virtues. Ren 仁 and Yi 义 are the basics of moral values. In reality, Confucianism greatly influence our society, our sense of judgement of what is wrong / right comes directly from Confucianism.

Some chinese immigrants have been 'Westernized'. They have lost touch with their heritage (I am not saying westernization is a bad thing). These people are called 'Bananamen' as banana is yellow on the outside and white on the inside. In Malaysia, it's a derogatory thing to say but nobody gets offended. Majority of the bananamen don't know much about Confucianism.

Like everywhere else in East Asia, Confucianism has greatly influenced the Japanese social behavior even though they don't see it as such. Japanese are fiercely loyal to their nation and company (lifelong employment with a single company is very common in Japan), they emphasize greatly on etiquette and manners, they show respects to the elders, and many systems in Japan are based on seniority.

Most Japanese today believe in theistic Buddhism and Shinto. ~80% of Japanese say they believe in Buddhism, another 80% says they believe in Shinto.
I dont know if there's any Confucius shrine in Japan, when i was there i did not see any.