How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights...?

[HenryReardon]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

I
to me, its not so much the title, but the rights i receive. i want to be able to make medical decisions for the ones i love. i wanna be able to have the right to see him as a family member and not just a 'friend.' thats all that really matters to me. as cheesy as it sounds, love is all i need. screw the names.

There are a number of legal documents that solve that problem, such as a Medical Power-of-Attorney, and others.

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

"Registered Union"????

That sounds as cold and clinical as my tax returns....

"Guess what, Mom?! Bob just registered a union for me!" We gonna be registered union members!"

"That's wonderful Adam! We have to throw a Registered Union Party!"

Ugh.

Uh, no. Marriage. My future husband (yes, husband, not friggin' 'partner'...) and I will be MARRIED.

Not something that sounds so damn bureaucratic...

Indeed. As ma best friend once told me, "I want a marriage, not a fuckin' contract."

Equal but different, still aint equal.

I still thin marriage is a religious thing and if a church doesnt want to marry you then they dont have to. If you want something more 'meaningful' then you can find a church who does that. go to canada.
to me, its not so much the title, but the rights i receive. i want to be able to make medical decisions for the ones i love. i wanna be able to have the right to see him as a family member and not just a 'friend.' thats all that really matters to me. as cheesy as it sounds, love is all i need. screw the names.

Breeders have been getting married in secular ceremonies for decades now, so no, it's not to do with the church. Are you suggesting that marriages from other/no religions should not be valid either. It's very simple. By keeping us in some sepperate wee pidgeon-hole, it's an infference that our relationships are not as good as thiers. No chance.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

"Registered Union"????

That sounds as cold and clinical as my tax returns....

"Guess what, Mom?! Bob just registered a union for me!" We gonna be registered union members!"

"That's wonderful Adam! We have to throw a Registered Union Party!"

Ugh.

Uh, no. Marriage. My future husband (yes, husband, not friggin' 'partner'...) and I will be MARRIED.

Not something that sounds so damn bureaucratic...

It should sound cold and clinical -- it's the government side of the thing. Why would anyway want to get warm feelings about the government? You're not getting into an interpersonal union with the government (I hope), but with someone you love and with whom you want to demonstrate mutual commitment.

You, on the other hand, are expected to not be cold and clinical, and should engage in the commitment type and ceremony of your choosing -- marriage, bonding, handfasting, or whatever term from whatever culture represents what you believe/wish. That's your side of the thing, not the government's, and in plain language, if they think they have any business telling you how or with whom you can engage in the union type of your choice, they can go fuck a Federal Register.

So, in your case, you would get married, then register your union (since marriage is a type of union) with the government, whose job it is to be neutral, and do the will of the people -- in this case, the will of you and your husband, not of any nit-picking, bigoted religious twerps who can't get it out of their heads that God is no longer in the business of running nations. The government wouldn't care if you got married, chained, leashed, glued, entwined, contracted, enmeshed, or even melded -- so it gets a neutral, cold and clinical term, and you get all the benefits and privileges under the law that anyone else who registers their union does.


BTW, which church are you going to be married in?

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Indeed. As ma best friend once told me, "I want a marriage, not a fuckin' contract."

Equal but different, still aint equal.

That second item is quite true. But whose point is it addressing? I'm not seeing many posts here that argue for "separate but equal".

Breeders have been getting married in secular ceremonies for decades now, so no, it's not to do with the church. Are you suggesting that marriages from other/no religions should not be valid either. It's very simple. By keeping us in some sepperate wee pidgeon-hole, it's an infference that our relationships are not as good as thiers. No chance.

The vast majority of Americans believe that marriage is "sacred". If you're a Democrat, that should settle it for you. And if that settles it, or even if not, you should be fighting mightily to get the government out of something religious.

Why fight to uphold a term that represents religious persecution of gays? Why would you even want to use that term?

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Why fight to uphold a term that represents religious persecution of gays? Why would you even want to use that term?

Several reasons come to mind, none of them flattering.

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Several reasons come to mind, none of them flattering.

Really? Do share.

 

[probable]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Equal but different, still aint equal.

It's also not equal if heterosexual couples have a right to civil/registered unions and marriages, whereas homosexual couples only have a right to one. That's the most half-assed attempt at appeasement i've ever heard of.

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

"Registered Union"????

That sounds as cold and clinical as my tax returns....

"Guess what, Mom?! Bob just registered a union for me!" We gonna be registered union members!"

"That's wonderful Adam! We have to throw a Registered Union Party!"

Ugh.

Uh, no. Marriage. My future husband (yes, husband, not friggin' 'partner'...) and I will be MARRIED.

Not something that sounds so damn bureaucratic...

That is exactly what I want. If and when I ever find a partner, parties full of pomp, circumstance, and a self centered demanding of attention and gifts are not needed. We date for a while, prob move in together, and at some point along the way we recognize that we trust each other enough to grant power of attorney and those other various legal issues so we sit down with a lawyer, draw up the paperwork, and get on with our lives as normal.

As far as Florida Amend 2 goes, as I said, it wasn't perfect. I would have written it to say something along the lines of "the granting of marriage and its associated benefits is the sole decision the legislature" or something along those lines (sorry pre-law was Freshmen year major only took 2 classes so someone will need to translate it into legalese). My main concern is getting the issues out of the courts and into the hands of the people, or their elected representatives.

I think someone asked what I had meant about being extremely pro-life...I believe that when a sperm and egg have united, a human life is formed. It is entitled to all the protections normally afforded any other human being. If you kill him/her, and the law does not say this is a justified use of deadly force, then that is a homicide. period.

I'll also add another (recent issue) that is a turn off as far as the Democrats go...general aviation. although some are supporters, Congress and Obama have apparently determined that corporate/private/general aviation is the greatest evil afflicting this country. Ignoring for a second that these aircraft are important business tools for their owners, they are going after an industry that is a source of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American jobs, many of them blue collar, industrial, or service industry. I know because I work as a ramp rat (aka line service technician) taking care of these airplanes and, like the everyone in this business, the small family-owned FBO I work for is hurting. I could rant for a couple more paragraphs but I'll stop for now.

I'll also add that while I am a Republican, you can count me as a disgruntled one. The expansion of government spending and entitlements that we saw under Bush and the Republicans Congress is an affront to core principles of conservatism/libertarianism that they were supposed to represent. The good I that hope comes out this last election is my party's members learn to start acting like Republicans again.

 

[jJoEd77]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Omg. If Christians say you don't have the right to be married then thats that. There shouldnt be any arguing. You have the right to peace liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not a christian marriage.
Forcing a church to marry a homosexual couple would be like forcing all gays to not be gay.

 

[jJoEd77]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

There are a number of legal documents that solve that problem, such as a Medical Power-of-Attorney, and others.

I guess I'm set then

 

[jJoEd77]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

^ Omg I know right

But on topic... What I'm trying to say is marriage is religious. marriage. that word. marriage, is a religious bonding of a man a woman and god. because church and state are separate, the church can do whatever they want. so the church has the right to not marry gays.
however, i do believe that the state is required to allow some sort of civil action/union/something or other, that links any one person to another. non-religiously.

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

^ Omg I know right

But on topic... What I'm trying to say is marriage is religious. marriage. that word. marriage, is a religious bonding of a man a woman and god. because church and state are separate, the church can do whatever they want. so the church has the right to not marry gays.

No churches in any state are forced to marry anyone they don't want to for any reason whatsoever, and the enacting of gender-neutral marriages would not change that. Marriages can be conducted by public officials anyway, so marriage is not governed by churches.

however, i do believe that the state is required to allow some sort of civil action/union/something or other, that links any one person to another. non-religiously.

Not in the vast majority of states.

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

There are a number of legal documents that solve that problem, such as a Medical Power-of-Attorney, and others.

The going rate in Texas for a basic set of documents that covers all the benefits that can be covered under contracts and such is $1200. A marriage license in Texas costs $71 which can be reduced to $10 if the couple goes through a state-approved marriage counseling course.

I'd take the $10 dollar option that covers more rather than the $1200 option which covers less.

I'd call that unequal treatment.

 

[HenryReardon]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

The going rate in Texas for a basic set of documents that covers all the benefits that can be covered under contracts and such is $1200. A marriage license in Texas costs $71 which can be reduced to $10 if the couple goes through a state-approved marriage counseling course.

I'd take the $10 dollar option that covers more rather than the $1200 option which covers less.

I'd call that unequal treatment.

That's just about the silliest argument yet.
We paid $500 in Fla, but it was a decade ago.
That being said, ever hear of Legalzoom.com or any of the other online services.

There is certainly software, maybe even shareware, to help you do it yourself.

Not to mention the fact that a so-called marriage between two men or two women in one state would not be recognized in other states.

 

[TheTalkingAsshole]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

It's also not equal if heterosexual couples have a right to civil/registered unions and marriages, whereas homosexual couples only have a right to one. That's the most half-assed attempt at appeasement i've ever heard of.

What are your definitions of civil unions and of marriage? I'm wondering what the differences are, or are we just arguing semantics?

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

That's just about the silliest argument yet.
We paid $500 in Fla, but it was a decade ago.
That being said, ever hear of Legalzoom.com or any of the other online services.

There is certainly software, maybe even shareware, to help you do it yourself.

Not to mention the fact that a so-called marriage between two men or two women in one state would not be recognized in other states.

Software and shareware are a dangerous thing, especially when it comes to wills. One needs a lawyer to make sure that the documents are legally valid. The laws vary from state to state and are often quite tricky.

No to mention the fact that any marriage which violates strong public policy will not be recognized in a foreign state. This has been litigated in several states with varying results in the context of common-law marriage. I figured you'd like that since it reaffirms that states have traditionally had the power in the field of family law.

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

What are your definitions of civil unions and of marriage? I'm wondering what the differences are, or are we just arguing semantics?

it is semantics. a civil union is a legal marriage in everything but name as far as I can tell.

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

What are your definitions of civil unions and of marriage? I'm wondering what the differences are, or are we just arguing semantics?

States that recognize civil unions do not offer them to opposite sex couples. In those states, civil unions are for gay couples, and marriage is for straight couples. This is not true in some foreign countries such as France where civil unions are available to both, but marriage is restricted to straights.

The differences are mostly at the federal level and where employment benefits are governed by federal laws such as ERISA.

Occasionally legislative sloppiness has left some protection or other out of a civil union bill, but the courts in those states have extended the right as fulfilling the manifest intent of the legislature. For example, there was a veterans property tax exemption that was left out of the New Jersey bill that was rectified by a court. However, that's an expensive process.

We are not arguing semantics.

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

The differences are mostly at the federal level and where employment benefits are governed by federal laws such as ERISA.

from what I understand, DOMA pretty much settled the question at the Federal level. if I remember correctly, it stated that as far as the Feds are concerned, marriage is the union of one man and one woman, that the states are free to set their own definitions, but that one state can't be forced to recognized gay marriages performed in other states. someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that, though.

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

from what I understand, DOMA pretty much settled the question at the Federal level. if I remember correctly, it stated that as far as the Feds are concerned, marriage is the union of one man and one woman, that the states are free to set their own definitions, but that one state can't be forced to recognized gay marriages performed in other states. someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that, though.

It is my opinion that the federal part of DOMA is unconstitutional, and the state provision merely restates what was already the law. However, litigation of DOMA has not reached any circuit court of appeals. So we don't really know what the courts would do with it, and we won't know for some time because active cases are not challenging the constitutionality of DOMA. The active cases are only arguing over state constitutional law. Thus, DOMA doesn't really take care of it.