How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights...?

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

And some of us would rather not spend thousands of dollars on attorney fees to draw up a legalese-ridden contract that wouldn't grant all the rights of marriage and would be a nightmare of paperwork for the rest of our lives.Good luck finding that boyfriend. Oh, I mean partner. Can't make it sound meaningful, now can we?The problem is you, a gay man, actively went out and VOTED for legislation that would deny gay men and women the right to civil unions and marriage.If you want a business partner to sign up a contract with you via an attorney and have the money to do so, than fine. That's your life.But some of us, actually want equal rights, a meaningful marriage and would rather not deal with legalese bullshit that some would not be able to understand and shouldn't be required too.Again, good lucking finding that 'partner'.

as I have said before, the amendment was not what I would have written...I have no personal objection to civil unions.* However, it was probably the best I was going to see, and to me, the principle of it being the people's choice and not the courts matters more.
and thanks for the well-wishes on the personal life.* I can only hope that I'll find someone pragmatic and secure enough to recognize that for me (and this admittedly may be to a degree semantics), partner is a far more endearing and intimate title than boyfriend, and that pomp, circumstance, ceremony, and calls for public recognition and adulation are not necessary.* Sorry for not being PC but to me, thats all for the girls.* Guys are supposed to be more practical and reasoned.* The guy who is my partner, companion, boyfriend, and best friend will just know it.* If he doubts it, then I'm screwing up something in the relationship.* The rest of these legal technicalities do not make our relationship what it is and are just that, legal technicalities.

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

you can call your partner in conversation whatever you want.* your religious institution can call him what they want.* I don't see why the governments "blessing" in calling it a "marriage" versus a "civil union" matters.*

Considering this is someone quoting a fuckin' sun collumist in thier sig, I'm hardly surprised at this response. As long as things are the way that they are, how we describe ourselves in conversation means fuck all, but to ourselves. Untill, we can get married, in every sense of the word, we will always be married in inverted commas. Fuck that.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

as I have said before, the amendment was not what I would have written...I have no personal objection to civil unions.* However, it was probably the best I was going to see, and to me, the principle of it being the people's choice and not the courts matters more.
and thanks for the well-wishes on the personal life.* I can only hope that I'll find someone pragmatic and secure enough to recognize that for me (and this admittedly may be to a degree semantics), partner is a far more endearing and intimate title than boyfriend, and that pomp, circumstance, ceremony, and calls for public recognition and adulation are not necessary.* Sorry for not being PC but to me, thats all for the girls.* Guys are supposed to be more practical and reasoned.* The guy who is my partner, companion, boyfriend, and best friend will just know it.* If he doubts it, then I'm screwing up something in the relationship.* The rest of these legal technicalities do not make our relationship what it is and are just that, legal technicalities.

sexist much?

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Considering this is someone quoting a fuckin' sun collumist in thier sig, I'm hardly surprised at this response. As long as things are the way that they are, how we describe ourselves in conversation means fuck all, but to ourselves. Untill, we can get married, in every sense of the word, we will always be married in inverted commas. Fuck that.

I dunno what the Sun is...my knowledge of Mr. Clarkson comes soley from that masterpiece, Top Gear. If I actually cared about his views on politics, I wouldn't have voted for Bush 4 years ago, and I'd renounce my homeland and move across the pond. I do happen to share his passion for all things automotive and Italian, not to mention I enjoy his irreverent brand of humor.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't need or want the government's help in being able to call my relationship whatever I choose to call it. If someone is so weak minded as to base their definition of marriage on whatever the government says one is, that is pathetic and their opinion is worth shit and I could care less what they think. You win over people's hearts and minds with both reason and by showing them that you are what you say you are. If they're open to it, they won't need quotes. If they aren't, the quotes won't mean anything anyway.

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

sexist much?

in theory, yes. in practice, I give everyone a chance as an individual.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

It just occurred to me....

in popular lore, Democrats are the ones who "feel", so shouldn't the answer to the thread's question be, "They don't"?

 

[jdoe4822]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

It just occurred to me....

in popular lore, Democrats are the ones who "feel", so shouldn't the answer to the thread's question be, "They don't"?

nice... I think that answer's good enough to get me to shut up for now lol.

 

[construct]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Well, let's see. What can one not get through contract and property law? Oh, I know. Here's one--spousal privilege from testifying in a criminal trial. Oh, wait! Here's another--standing to file a wrongful death suit or a survival suit. That's the kind of stuff that you can't get without a recognized marriage or civil union. What the law calls it makes all the difference in the world.

Love doesn't matter. Living together for forty years doesn't matter. Paying his way through medical school doesn't matter. What your friends call it doesn't matter. Private promises don't matter. What you call it doesn't matter. What some church calls it doesn't matter. None of that matters at all when you want to file wrongful death and survival claims for your boyfriends death from surgical ineptness. None of that matters at all when your significant other told you about the bank-robbery he is on trial for.

You are strangers in the eyes of the law. That is all that matters.

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

I dunno what the Sun is...my knowledge of Mr. Clarkson comes soley from that masterpiece, Top Gear. If I actually cared about his views on politics, I wouldn't have voted for Bush 4 years ago, and I'd renounce my homeland and move across the pond. I do happen to share his passion for all things automotive and Italian, not to mention I enjoy his irreverent brand of humor.

Clarkson, for his limited good points, writes for the Sun, a redtop piece of tabloid trash that's owned by the same conglomorate as fox news.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't need or want the government's help in being able to call my relationship whatever I choose to call it. If someone is so weak minded as to base their definition of marriage on whatever the government says one is, that is pathetic and their opinion is worth shit and I could care less what they think. You win over people's hearts and minds with both reason and by showing them that you are what you say you are. If they're open to it, they won't need quotes. If they aren't, the quotes won't mean anything anyway.

Well, that being a not so sneaky way to say my opinion is worth shit, aside (again, already on an infraction, so I'll get banned over someone with a modicum of intelect, at least,) it's fuck all to do with the govenernment, it's to do with how the rest of society treats us. As long as seperate language is used, or to put it as basicly as possible, as long as we don't have the exact same shit as the breeders, we will not be the same, in which case we will not be equal. There yet?

 

[glo-unit]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Ok I suppose gay marriage would be all dandy, but I don’t think that a church should ever be forced to marry a same-sex couple. A marriage performed by a court should always be available tho.

Has anyone here said that churches should be forced to marry gays?

you can call your partner in conversation whatever you want.* your religious institution can call him what they want.* I don't see why the governments "blessing" in calling it a "marriage" versus a "civil union" matters.*

Because in every state that has any form of civil union there are rights that aren't granted by civil unions that are in marriage. This has basically proven that civil unions are "separate but equal."

Could you also explain to me how voting for the amendment helped ensure that the decision of same-sex marriage would be decided by the people, because I don't get it.

 

[DanikShade]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

You've fuck all to feel smug about. Your country is an affront to human decency.

Just as it is with your country or Europe as a whole it is a mistake to assume that the people feel or act the same as their respective government. Our government is out of control because we let it get out of control. We forgot that the Constitution was written to give us power over them, not vice versa. Until we remove our heads from our asses the problem will continue to grow.

Marriage is a religious institution, we have no claim to it unless you're a member of their flock. They've owned it for centuries. They don't have to change for us and we have no right to make claim against them. Besides, if they can't follow their own teachings (love thy neighbor and all that BS) why would you want to belong? I've never been able to figure that out.

Civil unions would've already happened if we as a sub-group minority could've grown the fuck up. Tramping around in a parade waving flags in your minimal underwear has done NOTHING to help us in being taken seriously by the populace or the lawmakers, and the violence in Cali after the Prop 8 vote made us look like the lowest form of socially destructive terrorists. We have so totally fucked up the public relations war that I'm surprised even the democrats haven't dumped us. If we want grown up rights we need to act like grown ups. Fuck even Bush was willing to go with unions, but hell no we have to have big protests and screaming like neon barbie boy club kids, etc etc etc. Dump the "M" word, grow up and act like adults, and we could have full union rights in no time at all.

Hate crimes. What an idiotic term. Murder is murder, violence is violence, and the lawyers will get them off and we tolerate it. Unless it happens to you or someone you know its a sound bite on Oprah and forgotten, right?

Adoption will come with unions if we can mature enough to get that far.

Dems and Republicans lol. Maybe there used to be a difference. Not anymore.

 

[glo-unit]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

What violence was there after prop 8 and has Bush even mentioned civil unions?

 

[DanikShade]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

What violence was there after prop 8 and has Bush even mentioned civil unions?

It was pretty much all over the news not to long ago, and I have Bush talking about unions on tivo or did have. I'm not a Bush apologist nor do I really care if we end up with unions. Its just more money for the lawyers. I've met very few couples that have gone the distance.

 

[noah617]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

For those of you thinking this is just an argument over semantics, that if we would just settle for Civil Unions the Republicans would be on board, this is what the newly elected Chairman of the Republican National Committee recently had to say when asked if he supported Civil Unions:

"No, no no. What would we do that for? What are you crazy?"
RNC Chairman Michael Steele Politico

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

I have to ask, is foundational even a word?

 

[opinterph]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

I have to ask, is foundational even a word?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foundational​

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Just as it is with your country or Europe as a whole it is a mistake to assume that the people feel or act the same as their respective government. Our government is out of control because we let it get out of control. We forgot that the Constitution was written to give us power over them, not vice versa. Until we remove our heads from our asses the problem will continue to grow.

Marriage is a religious institution, we have no claim to it unless you're a member of their flock. They've owned it for centuries. They don't have to change for us and we have no right to make claim against them. Besides, if they can't follow their own teachings (love thy neighbor and all that BS) why would you want to belong? I've never been able to figure that out.

Civil unions would've already happened if we as a sub-group minority could've grown the fuck up. Tramping around in a parade waving flags in your minimal underwear has done NOTHING to help us in being taken seriously by the populace or the lawmakers, and the violence in Cali after the Prop 8 vote made us look like the lowest form of socially destructive terrorists. We have so totally fucked up the public relations war that I'm surprised even the democrats haven't dumped us. If we want grown up rights we need to act like grown ups. Fuck even Bush was willing to go with unions, but hell no we have to have big protests and screaming like neon barbie boy club kids, etc etc etc. Dump the "M" word, grow up and act like adults, and we could have full union rights in no time at all.

Hate crimes. What an idiotic term. Murder is murder, violence is violence, and the lawyers will get them off and we tolerate it. Unless it happens to you or someone you know its a sound bite on Oprah and forgotten, right?

Adoption will come with unions if we can mature enough to get that far.

Dems and Republicans lol. Maybe there used to be a difference. Not anymore.

We need to grow up enough to be conciliatory -- or act like it, anyway. We hand "marriage" over to the churches to do with as they please, get the word out of the law, and have "registered unions" for everyone -- people want to get married, bonded, partnered, whatever they want to call it, they do so, and inform the government of that fact; the government duly records that in a register, and you're good to go Hetero-, homo-, whatever, all the same, all just unions registered with the government and equal under the law.

 

[EwanSF]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Coniliatory? How willing are religious groups to compromise with us? They oppose every single advance we make with our rights. They need over-ruled and nothing else.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: How Do Gay Republicans Feel About Gay Rights..

Coniliatory? How willing are religious groups to compromise with us? They oppose every single advance we make with our rights. They need over-ruled and nothing else.

I know some almost reactionary Catholics who would be fine with the approach, because it would put churches in charge of marriage. Yes, there would still be diehards who would fight to keep us from having anything, but if California is an example, I think we only need 5% or 10% to go along.

Then the rest can sit and simmer.

I could make a good case from a Christian perspective that this is the proper thing to do anyway: "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Well, they say marriage is God's, not Caesar's, so it shouldn't be in government law! Thus even by Jesus' words, the government should have it own name for it, and by the Constitution God gave this country, it should be open to all, and have the same benefits for all.

Once it's got a basis in the Bible, a lot of Christians will stop and think. I think we could get better than 10% to go along, if the extremists would keep quiet.

 

[DiamondSkin]

BUMP.

I think this thread is now more relevant since we have more new political members in this forum and the country is once more dividing.