How is America a proxy war ground for foreign political advocates?

[NotHardUp1]

Looking at CE&P, it's obvious to any long term member of JUB that it is largely a battleground for American politics, argued by Canadians and sometimes Australians with few exceptions.

Demographics matter.

What about American politics is so irresistible in comparison to Canadian and Australian politics, both countries having their own domestic divides between conservatives and progressives?

It's common to observe migratory birds arrive at some far flung destination, only to be hounded by their predators, but it's highly unusually to see tourists arrive in a country just to fight there.

So, what is it? What makes American politics, and well before Trump lowered the bar, almost the only game in town when it comes to filling up the page in CE&P.

My theory is that it was more diverse in past years but has decayed to this state, with the fewer remaining political posters simply dominating the field, winner take all. Literally, if you took out the foreigner comments on American politics from CE&P, the place would be as dead as the Ask a Mod forum.

 

[gsdx]

The biggest difference, I would say, is that Canadian and Australian politics are rarely of interest to anyone outside our respective countries. What happens here or in Australia rarely, if ever, have any influence on the United States. Since the majority of members are American, non-American threads usually just drop off the bottom of the page.

I can't speak for Australia, but I can say that, throughout our history, politics in the United States have had an enormous influence on what happens in Canada. It was, in fact, American politics which directly led from Canada being a colony to becoming a dominion in 1867 and we have been feeling the effects of American politics since then.

Currently, the biggest influence is Trump. His personality, his bigotry, his misogyny, his hate, his way of governing, washed over Canada like a huge tidal wave and things changed drastically here... for a time. People who have remained 'underground' for decades suddenly found it publicly acceptable, at least in the States, for them to do the same here. Unacceptable things began happening with greater frequency and intensity. It wasn't long, though, that they figured out that they would be punished for such behaviour according to our laws. Most have since crawled back underground.

Currently, the biggest change here is that our Conservative Party has become more and more like Trump's Republican Party. Our own premier here in Ontario was likened to Trump even before he was elected and his style of governing is no surprise to us because we had been watching it south of the border for a year. And now, with a federal election looming, the Conservative Party Leader, Andrew Sheer, has brought Trump front and centre in our parliament and is using the same hate and fear tactics so prevalent under Trump's leadership. And, like Trump, Sheer tries to destroy political careers with lies and hate and unwarranted fear. That is what he is trying to do to our prime minister right now. As bad as our former prime minister Stephen Harper was, as bad as he tore Canada apart brick by brick and destroyed us on the world stage, his style of governing was nowhere near the Trumpian style of governing by Andrew Sheer in these past few months.

I fear for our country in much the same way as many Americans fear for theirs. I can see our Conservative party becoming something it has never been before, and something that Canadians could never have imagined.

That's why American politics is so important to us.

As former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau said to the Washington Press Club in 1969:

"Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."

This still holds true today.

 

[rareboy]

Pretty much what Neil wrote.

It would be so great if the politics of our neighbours didn't matter at all.

As we found out in the 20th century, the politics in Europe and Asia did, in fact matter and hundreds of thousands of Canadians and Americans ended up fighting imperial wars and against fascism...largely because of happy ignorance in the lead-up to the conflicts that eventually engulfed the world.

It doesn't pay to ignore what is happening next door to you when it deals with existential issues that have varying degrees of impact on your daily lives.

It is also interesting that some of the people most bothered by the input and observations by others on the affairs of the US, always make some automatic assumption that people who live outside the country may not have interests within the US, including family and business ties.

JUB's political forum is difficult for some to navigate because of the requirement to offer more than just a personal opinion. It tends to cut out the dross, including the hard core racists and the Russian doll trolls (which we have had here in the past), although a few will probably re-surface in 2019-2020.

The art of debate in political forums died with the advent of Twitter and the use of Facebook by people who prefer to fire off a 140 character riposte rather than engage in discussion...but the same is true of all on-line forums now.

 

[mikey3000]

What the hell are you two talking about? Trump's style of governing has zero influence up here. The only people who think so are those who are so wound up by the leftist fake news, they hope for it to be true. [Text: Removed]

 

[opinterph]

My theory is that [CE&P] was more diverse in past years but has decayed to this state, with the fewer remaining political posters simply dominating the field, winner take all. Literally, if you took out the foreigner comments on American politics from CE&P, the place would be as dead as the Ask a Mod forum.

There are almost 15,000 threads in CE&P dating back to 2006. I suggest that the “winners” are the ones who were successful in sharing their ideas without trampling other members in the process. I fail to appreciate why some members are opposed to the contributions of others based upon citizenship. Some of the “foreign” contributors to CE&P appear to be better informed than many US nationals. They provide a valuable and welcome resource to this forum.


FYI: Members can only see their own threads in the ATM forum. There are many hundreds of threads there that you cannot see.

 

[gsdx]

What the hell are you two talking about? Trump's style of governing has zero influence up here. The only people who think so are those who are so wound up by the leftist fake news, they hope for it to be true. [Text: Removed]

[Text: Removed] You should be very afraid. Instead you mock and attack us. Have you forgotten what Ford did to Toronto and what Harper did to Canada? That's not 'fake news'. That is history. You lived through it.

 

[gsdx]

Further to American influence on our politics, Andrew Sheer (PC leader) attended a 'town hall meeting' in Kitchener, Ontario. During the meeting, Sheer was asked about a donation Canada made to the Clinton Foundation in the amount of $800 million.

"The Clinton Foundation is part of child trafficking and child sacrifice, if you study it," the man said. "It's in pizzagate. How do we get that money back?"

Our government, in fact, donated $20 million 2 years ago, spread over 5 years "to the Clinton Health Access Initiative to help women and girls in Nigeria have more access to sexual and reproductive health services."

Not only did Sheer not correct the man's fake facts, but he didn't even attempt to correct the man on 'pizzagate'.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/andrew-scheer-asked-why-didn-195600482.html

When asked about it by reporters, Sheer denied hearing any mention of pizzagate and claimed not to even know what pizzagate was all about.

Yeah, right. Pull the other leg, Andy. It plays Jingle Bells.

Sheer has been dealing with fake facts and conspiracy theories throughout his campaign, and he's still using the same fear tactics we hear about south of the border. Trump's influence spreads far beyond American borders, and it's changing the world for the worse and not for the better.

That's why we fight him here. We don't like what he's doing to our country, and, not only does he not realise it, he wouldn't give a shit if he did.

Trump's influence