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How My Generation Sees Socialism

KrisHawkXXX

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Reagan took the credit for destroying a State-Capitalist Nation posed as a communist state. Pathetic. And people are misled enough to think Communism has actually been attempted. It's IMPOSSIBLE to attempt communism or Socialism. Its NOT that simplistic.

Socialism and communism are a slow growing psychological movement in society.

For example, a 5 year old may want be smart in terms of social skills, be able to drive a car well, hold a job, think outside themselves and clean the house. But the maturity has not been developed. The 5 year old may attempt to get a job (Forget about labor laws for a minute) but the 5 year old has not progressed enough mentally in order to understand the concept of maturity in the first place because not enough events have occurred to alter their perspective on life and what is rational. The child may think about what is fun, or may get in an accident because they do not posess enough skills to be driving in the first place. The child may have a "Best friend" and "Second Best Friend" mentality in school, even though we know this is immature. The child must learn lessons through hardship based on poor choices and mistakes based on their impulsiveness and selfishness, just like we as a society do. A year to society's growth may equal 10, 20, or even 100 years.

Time must naturally go by in order for the person to grow and do things in a healthy way. If society sees socialism as a possible future social structure, we can't just have an instantaneous revolution! Society must build its way SLOWLY as nations would see it makes sense in terms of getting the resources to society using means besides money. Money will be seen as something not sensible because there isn't enough money to equal the amount of resources in the world in which there are more then enough. Money will be something that limits the quality of food, health care, automobiles, energy, and every aspect you can imagine. We make a market of every thing we want and need, because of greed. We have a greedy mentality BECAUSE we are brainwashed into competing against each other rather then WORKING together. Something that is communal based is far more rational, and no country borders are needed. No countries should exist, it just keeps society separated and less educated. We are still living in a greedy mentality because Capitalism DOES affect the psychology of society. THIS is what Marx was trying to say, and he didn't believe in anybody being ruled under a tyrant. Capitalism is not an economic system, nor is socialism or communism. They are SOCIAL STRUCTURES.

The USSR was a COUNTRY, Used MONEY, was divided by a class based system that we know as STATE CAPITALISM. This is what happened because people didn't possess the intellectualism in society in order to operate a social or communal based society!! When a "Revolution" was attempted, of course it was a failure waiting to happen from the beginning. Because people still had a Capitalist mentality, communism would never work! All that happened was a Capitalist nation took freedoms away from other Capitalists and made the government ONE SOLE Capitalist, and gave every laborer the same paycheck. Sounds fucked up doesn't it? There is nothing socialist about that. Socialism doesn't mean everyone is the SAME in terms of financial reasoning. The psychology of society can't just be changed at the snap of fingers. Lessons that we as a society experience will be continued to be learned together as we grow over the years. Americans are buying guns like crazy because of how the GOP is literally freaking people out over nothing, and we may see a huge civil war break out sometime in my generation. People will see how oppressive the American government and its Capitalist system is destructive and uncivil. Sure, helping business keep going and keeping the economy is healthy for financial figures, but how is it healthy for people as a whole?

We as a society have the mentality of a teenager because of the stage we are in. We won't be stuck in Capitalism forever, it just SEEMS this way because of how people think stubbornly in our CURRENT present time. We are just a fragment of human history. Don't you think the oppressed class in the slavery structure thousands of years ago thought that their current structure would always remain in tact? Why do you think each previous social structure evolved later on to increase the standard of living for a higher portion of society? We are enslaved and oppressed by the Capitalists that employ us as well as the wealthy. The concept of a nation's government are what also control us like a tyrant, its really not that different when you think about it critically. People claim socialism would never happen due to greed, but that statement is just the same recycled and distorted concept of how social structures are formed without human interference. Because all our structures sort of develop on their own based on a course of events and hard lessons learned when we see what money does to us, such as the oil spills we just had!

More of my generation are criticizing Capitalism more then before while older generations who were raised with older and out-dated ways of thinking will die eventually. My generation, will be more open to critique our current structure that is so oppressive and destructive. The generations after me will grow and learn further. This is what progressive means, moving forward. If we were literally to stay in a Capitalist state forever as a globe, we will just destroy ourselves and society won't even exist anymore. We are going to see some really freaky shit happen in the future believe me. The older generations constantly think they are right, yet if people my age with this mindset keep thinking this way, we will eventually allow a self-fulling prophecy to take place! If we say humans will always be revolving around money to operate society and our needs/wants, then we shall reap what we sow. So don't knock people who explore socialist concepts, because its those socialists that can make change POSSIBLE in decades, hundreds, thousands of years.

Because thinking the same out-dated ways will just keep us stuck here. It's time to accept that Reagan and the GOP were wrong (He was senile anyway), and let our future generations be who moves us forward away from this mess. Reagan claimed the USSR was an evil empire (Which it was) but failed to see that our American nation is JUST as evil if not more when we compare what we do to the globe so selfishly. We constantly hear that socialism is a fantasy belief, well that is true, if you want to think of social growth in an irrational and simplistic way. No wonder why people don't get it.
 
Capitalism is great. It's the primary model any economy should be based around.

But that's not to say limited socialism with things like healthcare and public schools isn't a good thing either. People call Canada socialist but we're really not. We're mostly capitalist with some socialist aspects for services we find to be morally universal. We're only marginally more socialist than the USA.

People can be so paranoid about communism. I've been to Cuba. It's only a paradise to the tourists, but let's not get too carried away here.

If health care is free in a Capitalist society, then the health care is not a "Socialist" trait of that nation. Socialism is an overall psychology of how the society is structured and how people operate with eachother and themselves. Politicians call free health care "Socialist" Health care to scare people because dumb asses used false terminology to control people the way my country controls the world. In Capitalism and the USA, health care is made a private business. Making health care a mandatory and fundamental right would hurt the pockets of billionaires. People get rich by letting millions of people die and get sick. The Capitalists, the ones that own and run the companies, decide NOT to give health benefits because the ones on top get bonuses, tax cuts, and more of a profit. They act like victims and scream that they need to protect the wealth.

I would like to point out that this doesn't mean I should be handed everything because I'm spoiled. It's not about sitting on your ass and getting a check. If we live in our current structure, we have no choice but to be the best person we can be and treat eachother with respect and dignity. Don't fuck someone else over to get a promotion, or lie to the general public so you can keep your political position. It's THOSE things that make Capitalism more oppressive. Go to work, make a living, and support your kids and families. If you care about people, do volunteer work and get involved. Stick up for what you believe in. Its THOSE people with motivations that make change in the future much easier and smoother for everyone.

Competing against other human beings for survival is nothing BUT destructive, and it only benefits one person. That form of Competition doesn't better yourself, it just makes you an asshole with money. It may give you a sense of worth, because we are taught money makes us better people when it doesn't. What makes us better is how we TREAT eachother and how we can develop technology without being limited by money. Wouldn't it be smarter to work together and not worry about the concept of money, and have a communal human society as your employer, rather then a rich capitalist or government?

BTW how's the weather up there? :)
 
Last year visited the Baltic and tour guides in both Denmark and Finland (top two happiest people in the world!) actually bragged about paying 50% in taxes because they get so much in return, like a free college education up through a PhD (free even to foreigners). Government pays for all health care, daycare for preschool children and nursing home care for those who need it. I broke my arm in front of Big Ben tripping on cobblestone while concentrating on taking a photo. Had immediate care in London, x-rays, bone set, cast, pain killers for a week, and they didn't even want to see my passport or travel insurance I had back in the hotel safe. Then came home and needed surgery on the break and it cost $60,000 here as an outpatient.
 
Last year visited the Baltic and tour guides in both Denmark and Finland (top two happiest people in the world!) actually bragged about paying 50% in taxes because they get so much in return, like a free college education up through a PhD (free even to foreigners). Government pays for all health care, daycare for preschool children and nursing home care for those who need it. I broke my arm in front of Big Ben tripping on cobblestone while concentrating on taking a photo. Had immediate care in London, x-rays, bone set, cast, pain killers for a week, and they didn't even want to see my passport or travel insurance I had back in the hotel safe. Then came home and needed surgery on the break and it cost $60,000 here as an outpatient.

What you just described is a HEALTHIER form of Capitalism. Sounds Great. Wish My Capitalist Country was the same.
 
Reagan took the credit for destroying a State-Capitalist Nation posed as a communist state. Pathetic. And people are misled enough to think Communism has actually been attempted. It's IMPOSSIBLE to attempt communism or Socialism. Its NOT that simplistic.

Socialism and communism are a slow growing psychological movement in society.

Per usual, you are completely and utterly wrong. Do you actually read history books, or do you just skim over them? Socialism has been tried and it has failed. Of course, we shouldn't expect you to actually admit that considering that you still refuse to admit that there are flaws in the socialist theory.


For example, a 5 year old may want be smart in terms of social skills, be able to drive a car well, hold a job, think outside themselves and clean the house. But the maturity has not been developed. The 5 year old may attempt to get a job (Forget about labor laws for a minute) but the 5 year old has not progressed enough mentally in order to understand the concept of maturity in the first place because not enough events have occurred to alter their perspective on life and what is rational. The child may think about what is fun, or may get in an accident because they do not posess enough skills to be driving in the first place. The child may have a "Best friend" and "Second Best Friend" mentality in school, even though we know this is immature. The child must learn lessons through hardship based on poor choices and mistakes based on their impulsiveness and selfishness, just like we as a society do. A year to society's growth may equal 10, 20, or even 100 years.

Time must naturally go by in order for the person to grow and do things in a healthy way. If society sees socialism as a possible future social structure, we can't just have an instantaneous revolution! Society must build its way SLOWLY as nations would see it makes sense in terms of getting the resources to society using means besides money. Money will be seen as something not sensible because there isn't enough money to equal the amount of resources in the world in which there are more then enough. Money will be something that limits the quality of food, health care, automobiles, energy, and every aspect you can imagine. We make a market of every thing we want and need, because of greed. We have a greedy mentality BECAUSE we are brainwashed into competing against each other rather then WORKING together. Something that is communal based is far more rational, and no country borders are needed. No countries should exist, it just keeps society separated and less educated. We are still living in a greedy mentality because Capitalism DOES affect the psychology of society. THIS is what Marx was trying to say, and he didn't believe in anybody being ruled under a tyrant. Capitalism is not an economic system, nor is socialism or communism. They are SOCIAL STRUCTURES.

We've been over this Kris. The fact that you think capitalism and socialism/communism are not economic systems makes the rest of your posts on the subject laughably incorrect. If you don't even know what you're talking about, why should we care what else you think?

The USSR was a COUNTRY, Used MONEY, was divided by a class based system that we know as STATE CAPITALISM. This is what happened because people didn't possess the intellectualism in society in order to operate a social or communal based society!! When a "Revolution" was attempted, of course it was a failure waiting to happen from the beginning. Because people still had a Capitalist mentality, communism would never work! All that happened was a Capitalist nation took freedoms away from other Capitalists and made the government ONE SOLE Capitalist, and gave every laborer the same paycheck. Sounds fucked up doesn't it? There is nothing socialist about that. Socialism doesn't mean everyone is the SAME in terms of financial reasoning. The psychology of society can't just be changed at the snap of fingers. Lessons that we as a society experience will be continued to be learned together as we grow over the years. Americans are buying guns like crazy because of how the GOP is literally freaking people out over nothing, and we may see a huge civil war break out sometime in my generation. People will see how oppressive the American government and its Capitalist system is destructive and uncivil. Sure, helping business keep going and keeping the economy is healthy for financial figures, but how is it healthy for people as a whole?

Again, wrong. Please do yourself and read a history book. It's apparent that you're not actually learning anything other than what the socialists tell you; that's as dangerous as what you so fiercely advocate against. It makes you sound like an uneducated dolt, to be perfectly blunt, when you claim that the USSR was state capitalism.

We as a society have the mentality of a teenager because of the stage we are in. We won't be stuck in Capitalism forever, it just SEEMS this way because of how people think stubbornly in our CURRENT present time. We are just a fragment of human history. Don't you think the oppressed class in the slavery structure thousands of years ago thought that their current structure would always remain in tact? Why do you think each previous social structure evolved later on to increase the standard of living for a higher portion of society? We are enslaved and oppressed by the Capitalists that employ us as well as the wealthy. The concept of a nation's government are what also control us like a tyrant, its really not that different when you think about it critically. People claim socialism would never happen due to greed, but that statement is just the same recycled and distorted concept of how social structures are formed without human interference. Because all our structures sort of develop on their own based on a course of events and hard lessons learned when we see what money does to us, such as the oil spills we just had!

Ignoring human nature is why socialism and communism will never work. Its the same reason why pure unbridled capitalism will never work either. If you ignore human nature, you are doomed to a lifetime of misery and pain.

More of my generation are criticizing Capitalism more then before while older generations who were raised with older and out-dated ways of thinking will die eventually. My generation, will be more open to critique our current structure that is so oppressive and destructive. The generations after me will grow and learn further. This is what progressive means, moving forward. If we were literally to stay in a Capitalist state forever as a globe, we will just destroy ourselves and society won't even exist anymore. We are going to see some really freaky shit happen in the future believe me. The older generations constantly think they are right, yet if people my age with this mindset keep thinking this way, we will eventually allow a self-fulling prophecy to take place! If we say humans will always be revolving around money to operate society and our needs/wants, then we shall reap what we sow. So don't knock people who explore socialist concepts, because its those socialists that can make change POSSIBLE in decades, hundreds, thousands of years.

So your argument boils down to 'those damn old people, contradicting us with their years of experience and knowledge'. Grow up Kris.

Because thinking the same out-dated ways will just keep us stuck here. It's time to accept that Reagan and the GOP were wrong (He was senile anyway), and let our future generations be who moves us forward away from this mess. Reagan claimed the USSR was an evil empire (Which it was) but failed to see that our American nation is JUST as evil if not more when we compare what we do to the globe so selfishly. We constantly hear that socialism is a fantasy belief, well that is true, if you want to think of social growth in an irrational and simplistic way. No wonder why people don't get it.

It pains me to see that your education has failed you so badly Kris. The fact that you hold in high esteem a regime that murdered tens of millions of its own citizens, and supported the genesis of a nation that killed even more, says to any rational person that your opinion is biased at best and completely and wholly tainted at worst.

So do us all a favor; go read some unbiased history books and do some critical thinking of your own away from the loons at the socialist organization in your sig. Until then, could you try and stop clogging up the forum with threads that are just reposts of material from months and months ago?
 
Per usual, you are completely and utterly wrong. Do you actually read history books, or do you just skim over them? Socialism has been tried and it has failed. Of course, we shouldn't expect you to actually admit that considering that you still refuse to admit that there are flaws in the socialist theory.




We've been over this Kris. The fact that you think capitalism and socialism/communism are not economic systems makes the rest of your posts on the subject laughably incorrect. If you don't even know what you're talking about, why should we care what else you think?



Again, wrong. Please do yourself and read a history book. It's apparent that you're not actually learning anything other than what the socialists tell you; that's as dangerous as what you so fiercely advocate against. It makes you sound like an uneducated dolt, to be perfectly blunt, when you claim that the USSR was state capitalism.



Ignoring human nature is why socialism and communism will never work. Its the same reason why pure unbridled capitalism will never work either. If you ignore human nature, you are doomed to a lifetime of misery and pain.



So your argument boils down to 'those damn old people, contradicting us with their years of experience and knowledge'. Grow up Kris.



It pains me to see that your education has failed you so badly Kris. The fact that you hold in high esteem a regime that murdered tens of millions of its own citizens, and supported the genesis of a nation that killed even more, says to any rational person that your opinion is biased at best and completely and wholly tainted at worst.

So do us all a favor; go read some unbiased history books and do some critical thinking of your own away from the loons at the socialist organization in your sig. Until then, could you try and stop clogging up the forum with threads that are just reposts of material from months and months ago?

I'm going to try and be nice and discuss this with you like an adult.

Do me a favor, can you research State Capitalism? State Capitalism and Dictatorship go hand in hand. The communism we've known was nothing but a "Knock-Off" of a different form of the Capitalism we know today.

Have you ever considered that maybe everything in our American text books isn't right? :)

Share with me, what a Capitalist is? What A Capitalist state is? I'm more interested in hearing your definition of state capitalism. Wikipedia explains how in history a state capitalist nation portrayed itself as a socialist state regardless of what it truly was. Do your textbooks explore the ideology of state capitalism?

Opponents of the Soviet Government were assassinated for proclaiming their nation as a false communist definition, and stated their living conditions were to blame of a harsher form of Capitalism.


Here,

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/sgabriel/state_capitalism_defined.htm

Neither the logic of Marxian theory
nor research into concrete histories
of countries . . .
supports the collapsing of reform
and revolution
into one another . . .

The USSR did everything Marx was against from day 1. They believed in not one thing Marx talked about.

This one explores State Capitalism in Russia
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/ppapers/statecap.html

5. The Soviet Union is a nightmare form of Capitalism where weapons systems and heavy machinery proliferate but basic consumer needs cannot be met.

If my sources are not to your liking, here is a google search. If you are open minded, it would still be interesting to click the two above links and hear another perspective. You don't have to agree, but share with us in a paragraph or two about what you perceive state Capitalism to be.

http://www.google.com/search?q=State+Capitalism+Communism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Don't be scared and not respond. :) If you can research state capitalism and share with me why you still think Russia was once communist, I will listen if we can both be respectful of one another and not call eachother dumb or idiots.

You can say, "Gee this view is really interesting but I still feel this or that BECAUSE...."
 
Maybe if you were to not click the links and read with an open mind, might you subconsciously doubt what you've been taught your whole life and be afraid to admit so? Because I once believed as you do.

BTW how are socialists dangerous? I don't wish to dominate someone or run for political office, because that goes against how I see the world. A socialist should never run for office as a socialist, because they contradict what they believe, and those socialists also don't understand socialism. Those socialists are misinformed. Ignore my sig, I believed what I believed before I knew this organization existed. We do not believe in changing anything politically at this point in time nor do we ever. If you read the above two links, you can see where we are coming from. Again, I'd like to hear your definition of state capitalism.

You claim if I ignore human nature I am doomed to misery and pain. I do not ignore the psychology of how humans interact with themselves or each other in certain settings. We act and treat each other based on the setting we are raised in and our life experiences. There are people that are raised without thinking of just themselves. Growing up in America can be very harmful to the mind as well as toxic mentally. As for feeling misery and pain, I control what feelings I have. I decide what my emotions are, not someone else. If we don't have control over our own emotions, we make ourselves mentally ill and hurt those around us. How do YOU treat people?
 
I will agree that the Soviet Union was a failed imitation of what Socialism is supposed to be. They promised that the 'state capitalism' as you put it was only temporary in order to keep things running until we reached the Marxist Socialist Nirvana then it would all go away. That of course was the big lie to keep the people in line and to hide the real problem with achieving true socialism: It doesn't work!

True Socialism is a Utopian dream and like all Utopian dreams fails to account for reality and Human Nature. How dangerous can Socialists be you ask? They are dangerous because when they try and put their dream into practice they will inevitably wind up with a distopian nightmare like the Soviet Union.

Of course unfettered True Capitalism is just as bad but at least Capitalism does take into account Human Nature and tempered with a little socialism and regulatory common sense, it can be made into a workable system.
 
I will agree that the Soviet Union was a failed imitation of what Socialism is supposed to be. They promised that the 'state capitalism' as you put it was only temporary in order to keep things running until we reached the Marxist Socialist Nirvana then it would all go away. That of course was the big lie to keep the people in line and to hide the real problem with achieving true socialism: It doesn't work!

True Socialism is a Utopian dream and like all Utopian dreams fails to account for reality and Human Nature. How dangerous can Socialists be you ask? They are dangerous because when they try and put their dream into practice they will inevitably wind up with a distopian nightmare like the Soviet Union.

Of course unfettered True Capitalism is just as bad but at least Capitalism does take into account Human Nature and tempered with a little socialism and regulatory common sense, it can be made into a workable system.



Marx never believed in a "Nirvana" state. Did you not read my initial post about how socialism and communism are philosophical stages, not economic, political, or financial movements?

Can you show me where you read that State Capitalism was used as a temporary measure? And If that were the case as you say, why did they call themselves communists if they were still in a Capitalist state? Socialism takes hundreds to thousands of years to evolve into world communism. Also, before a socialist globe were to reach a communist state other countries, money, government, and a Capitalist financial system would cease to exist. Nothing socialist was ever achieved, so how could they have become a communist state when countries still existed? It's like they skipped socialism completely. You admitted a socialist state was never achieved, so why did they call themselves communists, because apparently you don't know the difference between the two. State Capitalism was NEVER used as a temporary measure and I've never read that anywhere.

Did you make that up?

Do you know the difference between socialism and communism? How about both Feudalism or primitive communism which humans have already successfully experienced early in history?

Why can't anyone just accept that We have yet to see a socialist or communist state and won't for a very long time? It's IMPOSSIBLE to initiate a socialist movement. IMPOSSIBLE. I am AGAINST EVERY attempted "socialist" and "communist" movement in world history. If you had read my posts clearly rather then the one you quoted, you'd understand why.

The communist manifesto was NOT a set of instructions for forcing a COUNTRY into a socialist state. This is where leaders and tyrants in history fuck up in the first place.

Sometimes I feel people read certain parts of my threads and pick what they choose to read and reply to that. People already have their opinion and decision formed in their head before they read 2 paragraphs of what I'm trying to say. I read everyone's posts clearly and respectfully and I can't get the same decency from others.
 
HERE is a questions that is more grand, WHO HERE has read the communist manifesto? FUCK Text books, FUCK The Disgruntled States Of America, FUCK The USSR, FUCK North Vietnam and China, (I don't have anything against China, Russia, and Vietnam I meant FUCK them in terms of them being communists) BUT WHO here has read the evolution of social structures in the manifesto itself? Am I the only person? The Manifesto can not just be read through. The manifesto and Marx's other literature contain ALOT of philosophical language and it would take the average person a long time to comprehend. Reading and skimming simplistically will just give you the same perception Stalin and Lenin had. THAT is why we had such a huge historical blunder. A megalomaniac like Joseph Stalin NEVER had enough intelligence to know what a social structure was. Capitalism, Socialism, Feudalism, Primitive communism, Communism, and Slavery Era are all covered and depicted as epochs, NOT economic models as American text books wrongly teach us.

"Communism sounds great but doesn't work" comes from an ignorant biased statement of someone that never read the manifesto with full comprehension. I'm not putting anyone down but the ignorance and lack of knowledge is getting on my nerves.

People are generally too misled to read the original literature, so they resort to a biased text book to determine their understanding of socialism let alone capitalism. Most College text books are also biased, especially if you attended college in the States. Average Grade school children let alone High school students do not have adequate reading comprehension to interpret philosophical language. It's a challenge for adults to understand especially if they do not like to read, and it is a well known fact many Americans are not good readers. Most Americans average at a 3rd grade reading level. Isn't that pathetic? And many people in this country still claim they know what CAPITALISM is.
 
you speaking for a whole generation now?

Again, being simplistic. You take the most trivial aspects of a paragraph to sway others away from the original concept because you feel intimidated to discuss the most complex view points that you can not come to terms with. I don't speak for an entire generation, I was making a statement that said much of the youth from my generation (Globally) is becoming far more progressive then generations before.

Your reading comprehension is quite poor based on the years I've seen you try to interpret certain discussions and links to distorted news obviously filled with bias ideologies formed by the propaganda machine.
 
what a revelation ! :badgrin:


kid, 90% of guys your age in any generation thought that about their gen

the old folk you rail against are the HIPPIES

I'm not a kid, I'm an adult and I find your terminology for me demeaning based on the context of your wording. Your posts in the area of politics lack any substance or seriousness rather dumb mockeries.

I stated that the younger generations are more progressive then previous generations. I didn't say which group from previous generations in particular, I said previous generations in general. When did I say anything about hippies? And what is your definition of a hippie?

As time moves forward, the psychology of society moves more towards a progressive state as a whole. History proves this a key element in social evolution. Whether or not you allow your mind to open up to see this is strictly up to you. Or you can sit in the dark and make racial references from time to time, I could care less. Every political thread you initiate proves my point.
 
..|


how's your MLKjr day going?

It's going great Thanks. (*8*)

Back On topic, I was waiting on everyone to discuss when they read the communist manifesto because if anyone here actually has, they would see everything I've said is quite factual. There is no such thing as spiritual Marxism, nor has a Socialist/Communist state ever existed. But alas, nobody wants to read the origins of this philosophy, just a second hand distorted interpretation spread by American literature. It's quite eye opening and informative. Looking in history, Lenin KNOWINGLY and willingly disagreed with Marx on MOST points of the Manifesto and established his own views and concepts that were pulled from his ass.

Marx Stated that the USA was the heart of Capitalism, and the heart of Capitalism would need to be diminished in America when the people revolt, overthrowing the Capitalists and government who dominates the globe as a tyrant itself.

Reagan and the CIA even today have read the manifesto. So why would American text books contain this vital piece of information? We are taught that Lenin followed the manifesto strictly to create a political party (oxymoron) but oddly enough American students are never handed a copy of the manifesto to read for themselves. The average American has a 3rd-4th grade reading level, so how would the citizens gain tools for progressing as far as it could?

The motto for American life could easily be "Ignorance Is Bliss."
 
Marx never believed in a "Nirvana" state. Did you not read my initial post about how socialism and communism are philosophical stages, not economic, political, or financial movements?

Can you show me where you read that State Capitalism was used as a temporary measure? And If that were the case as you say, why did they call themselves communists if they were still in a Capitalist state? Socialism takes hundreds to thousands of years to evolve into world communism. Also, before a socialist globe were to reach a communist state other countries, money, government, and a Capitalist financial system would cease to exist. Nothing socialist was ever achieved, so how could they have become a communist state when countries still existed? It's like they skipped socialism completely. You admitted a socialist state was never achieved, so why did they call themselves communists, because apparently you don't know the difference between the two. State Capitalism was NEVER used as a temporary measure and I've never read that anywhere.

Did you make that up?

Do you know the difference between socialism and communism? How about both Feudalism or primitive communism which humans have already successfully experienced early in history?

Why can't anyone just accept that We have yet to see a socialist or communist state and won't for a very long time? It's IMPOSSIBLE to initiate a socialist movement. IMPOSSIBLE. I am AGAINST EVERY attempted "socialist" and "communist" movement in world history. If you had read my posts clearly rather then the one you quoted, you'd understand why.

The communist manifesto was NOT a set of instructions for forcing a COUNTRY into a socialist state. This is where leaders and tyrants in history fuck up in the first place.

Sometimes I feel people read certain parts of my threads and pick what they choose to read and reply to that. People already have their opinion and decision formed in their head before they read 2 paragraphs of what I'm trying to say. I read everyone's posts clearly and respectfully and I can't get the same decency from others.

Perhaps you should read mine more in depth, I essentially agree with your view of the Soviet Union and you say I'm making it up. No they did not say in so many words that 'State Capitalism' existed, I used those words because that was your description of what existed. They did tell their people that what they currently had was not the end product of the communist/socialist dream but an intermediary step. It was how they justified the utter failure of their system to provide the people's needs. I'll take your word that a socialist state cannot be initiated but that was the tripe they were feeding their people. If we can only get rid of the US and the other capitalist dogs out there then what we've created will finally become the world socialist paradise so just keep on working hard and don't question. It was all a Big Lie and Orwell saw it clearly.

You can't initiated it, fine but some folks try anyway and that makes big messes.
 
Again, being simplistic. You take the most trivial aspects of a paragraph to sway others away from the original concept because you feel intimidated to discuss the most complex view points that you can not come to terms with. I don't speak for an entire generation, I was making a statement that said much of the youth from my generation (Globally) is becoming far more progressive then generations before.

Your reading comprehension is quite poor based on the years I've seen you try to interpret certain discussions and links to distorted news obviously filled with bias ideologies formed by the propaganda machine.

It's not anyone's comprehension skills that are at issue, but rather your ability to communicate via the written word.

Your topic title is "How my generation sees Socialism." It is a reasonable assumption, based on the topic, that you either speak for your generation or at least provide an authoritative citation for that claim. Seeing no such citation, a reasonable person would assume then, that you speak for an entire generation. Then you deny that assumption as well.

It's pretty easy to see how people are getting confused, would you not agree?
 
Perhaps you should read mine more in depth, I essentially agree with your view of the Soviet Union and you say I'm making it up. No they did not say in so many words that 'State Capitalism' existed, I used those words because that was your description of what existed. They did tell their people that what they currently had was not the end product of the communist/socialist dream but an intermediary step. It was how they justified the utter failure of their system to provide the people's needs. I'll take your word that a socialist state cannot be initiated but that was the tripe they were feeding their people. If we can only get rid of the US and the other capitalist dogs out there then what we've created will finally become the world socialist paradise so just keep on working hard and don't question. It was all a Big Lie and Orwell saw it clearly.

You can't initiated it, fine but some folks try anyway and that makes big messes.

You have a copy of the manifesto? Please share it with me I have a digital copy as well as a hard copy and a soft copy from a different publisher.

Folks try it because they DON'T READ. The Government lied and said the revolution would begin with socialism, and then they quickly declared the state a communist one. What they called a socialist stage was just another form of Capitalism. Nothing changed. Trotsky disagreed with Lenin, because Lenin wanted to create the vanguard party to lead the revolution. There can never be such thing as a socialist party or communist party. Marx stated that communists would have no need to create a political party, because political parties are what dominate and dictate how people are oppressed in their own nation. Had the citizens read the manifesto, they would see that NOTHING was taken from the manifesto to begin with. The ideologies from the manifesto were NEVER attempted, because they CAN'T. When I say they can't I don't mean because of human nature, I mean because of how the development takes place. Many things Marx said would come true years after his death, CAME TRUE in his manifesto. He even claimed people would misinterpret his ideologies and would create multiple eras of devastation in society.

The early stages of TRUE socialism would occur in each nation alone when the proletariat, (The laborers, basically everyone here on this forum unless they own a major corporation, then those are Capitalists) becomes so oppressed when each foreign economy crashes so bad and overproduction grows out of control (Overproduction is a domestic issue currently because not enough citizens make enough money to harness the productive forces and acquire needs and wants) that eventually the majority of society realizes they are being taken advantage of. Money and countries would exist in early socialism, but the act of SOCIALISM would be the citizens socializing in their own countries and seizing control of the means of production. Currently all the resources in the world are OWNED in the private hands of Capitalists who play a monkey-in-the-middle based system for power and control over society. When the proletariat class settles the score with the minority, the Capitalists, the laborers are able to break free of money and control over who has access to food, health care, housing, materials, etc. The laborers would already know how to produce the products, and they wouldn't need an employer to oppress them in order to acquire the goods. By this time when society has become so oppressive and gloomy people will have learned to socialize and work together when they band up as a team. Slowly the citizens would become mobilized and would overthrow the strict control of government, politics, and religion as the concept of COUNTRIES would no longer exist over time. Eventually because people begin to view their "employer" as themselves and human society, people develop a communal mentality because they benefit far more then ever before. Thus once the borders have fallen the world would become what is true world communism. This is why the USSR was NOTHING close to a communist state. ;)

Having society separated into different countries, states, etc just keeps us separated and afraid of foreigners. Keeping us separated is how the oppressive class keeps a non socialized mentality in our heads. So we have a bunch of dumb rednecks bitching about Mexicans coming over the border that happen to vote GOP and pro-business. Marx also states how the development of major cities provides a positive benefit due to the accumulation of people and laborers together, which opens the door for organization to unite. He also states urban growth frees us from the "Idiocy" of rural living.

When people depict socialism as people sitting on their ass and getting a government check, it just shows how misinformed and FAR OFF they really are.

In the USSR, the means of production and resources were still privately owned by a sole Capitalist and were acquired by the exchange of money. Not just for the early stages of the USSR, but for the entire existence OF THAT COUNTRY.

To go into every piece of this would take hours to type, I can send you the manifesto if you are interested in being educated about this philosophical ideology.


Communist Manifesto 1888:
Here: http://manybooks.net/titles/marxengelsetext93manif12.html
 
It's not anyone's comprehension skills that are at issue, but rather your ability to communicate via the written word.

Your topic title is "How my generation sees Socialism." It is a reasonable assumption, based on the topic, that you either speak for your generation or at least provide an authoritative citation for that claim. Seeing no such citation, a reasonable person would assume then, that you speak for an entire generation. Then you deny that assumption as well.

It's pretty easy to see how people are getting confused, would you not agree?

No I never said I speak for everyone in my generation.

One can say the 60's was a musical generation, but some people didn't listen to music. Not everything is so simplistic/black and white.

I thought people have moved forward and I did my job by sticking on topic. Please stick to the topic at hand and do your job. You are free to participate in the original discussion.
 
I know the motivation behind your response to my thread. I thought people have moved forward and I did my job by sticking on topic. Please stick to the topic at hand and do your job.

Sorry Kris, the motivation was to help us all understand what you're talking about. If you want to continue to write in a way that makes it a challenge to read for most here, be my guest. I think clarification is in order to move the discussion along. The topic at hand, is what exactly is your basis for making the claim contained in the thread topic? If it's your opinion, that's fine. If you claim to have some authoritative basis for making the claim, why not let us all in it? If your citing a source, what is it?
 
Sorry Kris, the motivation was to help us all understand what you're talking about. If you want to continue to write in a way that makes it a challenge to read for most here, be my guest. I think clarification is in order to move the discussion along. The topic at hand, is what exactly is your basis for making the claim contained in the thread topic? If it's your opinion, that's fine. If you claim to have some authoritative basis for making the claim, why not let us all in it? If your citing a source, what is it?

I actually requested in the mod forum to upload the Manifesto as a thread seeing as it would not violate copyright violations due to the age of the literature. I did provide a link to a digital copy a couple replies upward. I can also provide links to purchase soft and hard cover copies of the book if a physical copy is desired. I don't have an authoritative basis for making the claim, and it isn't my opinion. Everything I've discussed is stated in the manifesto, I just put things in my own words for others to understand. But if my word is questionable, which everyone has the right to do so, I provided the source which is the original origins of communist theory. The Manifesto is not a second hand interpretation, while American text books are and highly distorted.

Would you care for links to purchase a physical copy? I'm also sure you can pick one up at your local library. I recommended my friends to read at least 3 translations to grasp a better concept. :)
 
If anything Kris, "your" generation is going to feel the crushing burden of quasi-Socialism as you and your kin are forced to pay for Social Security, Medicare, and other "old people" programs that these very people never bothered to plan for, and in fact knowingly stuck you with.
 
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