I am Baffled

[rareboy]

So when we go into the City, there is a mall near us and someone has taken up residence next to a bus shelter.

In a tent now.

With extra coverings.

And odd bits of furniture.

She is obviously one of the 'hard to house' who has determined that she will live in proximity to the booze outlet and other plaza services and probably gets a health check daily from City Police.

We see that the poor soul that built a castle around the bus shelter about a block away has either succumbed or has finally been convinced to go into shelter for the winter....

When we lived full time in Toronto, we used to support the 'Bag Ladies' charity, recognizing that there are women that just can't be settled into sheltered housing or care...but 20 years on...I wish that I could see some advancement everywhere in making sure that these vulnerable souls with mental health issues were able to be taken under more protection.

Please don't forget about the rootless and wanderers and disconnected this winter.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Therein lies the paradox. They don't feel "protected" when forced into shelter, and it's not society's mandate to follow them around and make the world fit them.

We either have the choice of returning to institutionalize those who cannot function as adults, or we get to accept the consequences of valuing their independence over their safety.

We will never get both.

Empathy can be a curse. When 20 people die prematurely of their willfulness, whether fueled by mental illness, drugs, or sloth, how is that more tragic than living out another decade or two in aimless subsistence? What exactly is the virtue of living more years in (imputed) misery?

 

[cabinfever]

Yesterday we were driving on a frontage road next to the freeway where alot of homeless people have built cardboard shelters and we saw a bunch of flowers and teddy bears and realized one of them had died there - it is so cold at tonight.

It shook me up and I had to dry my eyes a few times. I don't know him (or her) but I want to leave some flowers and a warm blanket there tonight or tomorrow.

 

[LeicsDom]

Where I live they constantly say that there are always spare beds for the homeless. The problem is that some don't want to be homed, don't want a bed

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We either have the choice of returning to institutionalize those who cannot function as adults, or we get to accept the consequences of valuing their independence over their safety.

Nothing says safe quite like understaffed underfunded shelters with no security, lots of mental illness and addiction and meals servced with cheese that blinks at you cuz it's been stored so long it's become sentient and living.

Empathy can be a curse.

Oh, you were serious.

 

[MusicMan321]

I've seen a few people standing outside near traffic holding up signs and sometimes some people will give them money I wouldn't give them anything just keep passing by

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Where I live they constantly say that there are always spare beds for the homeless. The problem is that some don't want to be homed, don't want a bed

The shelters themselves, at least in the US, are very problematic. Filthy, unsafe and serving food I wouldn't give my dog even if she chewed up every pair of shoes I own. I believe in golden standards, don't serve food to the homeless you wouldn't serve to the mayor, don't house them in living quarters you wouldn't sleep in.

The system is so broken, the ones who do need help don't get it while some that do get hundreds of dollars every month from the state and blow it all on crack, cuz there's no oversight or compassion. It confounds all reason the rich can order anything their heart desires and get it in seconds while people, even families and mothers, needing homes are on waiting lists for years. Not like there's a shortage of space or homes, just a surplus of apathy or worse, people that actively enjoy seeing others suffer. These people are prime candidates for sexual, physical and financial abuse. I know some who get checks but their family gets them and has them walking around in tattered shoes using flip-phones and eating at shelters.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We're not even going to talk about the fraud and theft that happens at social services places that get money from the state and donations from the city. The center for homeless people where I live, I've watched as churches or businesses bring in food donations and the name-brand chips, snacks and soda get loaded right into the center operator's car and the stale or off-brand stuff gets carried into the kitchen. God only knows how much employees at these places are skimming cream off the top. /rantover

 

[NotHardUp1]

Too often, the "aid" given the "homeless" is to assuage the adopted guilt of the donor. He or she believes that the "homeless" are suffering and that they are therefore victims of society's inequities and disparities. Whereas that is true statistically, and disproportionately true for the mentally ill, there are vast numbers beyond the mentally ill, outnumbering them by far, of individuals who reject working for a living, who refuse shelter, who prefer drugs, including alcohol. They then live their preferences.

Their lifestyle is their preference. Panhandling is their preferred income mode.

Even the mentally ill usually prefer to live with their freedom rather than be drugged and controlled by handlers.

Our problem is that it is so alien to us, it looks like suffering. Often, it is not. It's poverty. There's a difference.

And yes, some freeze to death, but it's rarely from lack of access to heat or warm clothing. There are plenty of donors, free coats and blankets and socks, and shelters. When they freeze to death it is because they decided to live outside anyway, and usually it includes alcohol and drugs and death from exposure during intoxication.

I'm not sure about that being sad any more than it being sad when gangbangers shoot and kill one another. At this point, it just is.

 

[LeicsDom]

I've seen a few people standing outside near traffic holding up signs and sometimes some people will give them money I wouldn't give them anything just keep passing by

Most homeless agencies say not to give money as it will be spent on drink or drugs. If you want to give then give a hot drink or food

 

[NotHardUp1]

I don't have a problem with donors supporting their drug habit. It's what the beggar wanted, so that was the idea, to make them "happy."

I've always given food, meals, clothes, a bed or room when I thought it safe, or paid for a hotel room.

But, if another man wants to support a drug addiction, that's a choice.

 

[unloadonme]

You can lead a horse to water and all that. There are people who just won't be helped.

Has anyone seen The Lady in the Van?

 

[KaraBulut]

So when we go into the City, there is a mall near us and someone has taken up residence next to a bus shelter.

In a tent now.

With extra coverings.

And odd bits of furniture.

She is obviously one of the 'hard to house' who has determined that she will live in proximity to the booze outlet and other plaza services and probably gets a health check daily from City Police.

We see that the poor soul that built a castle around the bus shelter about a block away has either succumbed or has finally been convinced to go into shelter for the winter....

When we lived full time in Toronto, we used to support the 'Bag Ladies' charity, recognizing that there are women that just can't be settled into sheltered housing or care...but 20 years on...I wish that I could see some advancement everywhere in making sure that these vulnerable souls with mental health issues were able to be taken under more protection.

Please don't forget about the rootless and wanderers and disconnected this winter.

In the US, this is now known as "public camping" because vagrancy is still a misdemeanor but most jurisdictions allow "camping" as long as the person is on public property (which technically, is owned by the citizenry).

The thing with homelessness is that it tends to get reduced to a single cause - like substance addiction. It's much more complicated and it has a lot of causes, most of them related to mental illness (or conditions that we consider mental illness).

It always surprises me to hear about homeless people in places like Canada that have socialized healthcare and miserable winters. A couple years ago, one of my friends who lives in the South commented that after an unusual cold snap where they had sub-freezing temperatures for a week, the people in homeless encampments disappeared. The media didn't cover the story, so it's not clear whether law enforcement picked them up... and whether they were picked up alive or dead.

 

[nycguydowntown]

Our mayor in nyc has a new policy- first responders can take a crazy homeless person off the streets and into a medical facility if they conclude they are a danger to themselves or to the public. The big problem is many are attacking with knives and clubs innocent bystanders. Of course radical civil liberty assholes are against it.

 

[rareboy]

In the US, this is now known as "public camping" because vagrancy is still a misdemeanor but most jurisdictions allow "camping" as long as the person is on public property (which technically, is owned by the citizenry).

The thing with homelessness is that it tends to get reduced to a single cause - like substance addiction. It's much more complicated and it has a lot of causes, most of them related to mental illness (or conditions that we consider mental illness).

It always surprises me to hear about homeless people in places like Canada that have socialized healthcare and miserable winters. A couple years ago, one of my friends who lives in the South commented that after an unusual cold snap where they had sub-freezing temperatures for a week, the people in homeless encampments disappeared. The media didn't cover the story, so it's not clear whether law enforcement picked them up... and whether they were picked up alive or dead.

And this is the baffling part. We have safe shelter for everyone. But I understand that some people just do not want to be housed. And in the very cold weather, one of two things happen. Either they are convinced to come to a warming shelter by the police and social workers...or are loaded up with coats and blankets and food to keep them warm. Even then, every winter, there are those who die of exposure in the cities.

I want to know this woman's story. She is obviously a collector...but has made herself quite the estate...and is never panhandling or harassing anyone. Hopefully they can convince her to come indoors soon...we haven't had crippling cold yet.

I see that nearby, one of the other encampments is now vacated...he was definitely only a few steps away from having to give up his wnadering days when we last saw him in September.

 

[KaraBulut]

And this is the baffling part. We have safe shelter for everyone. But I understand that some people just do not want to be housed.

People who work in emergency rooms get very familiar with the homeless because they get brought in quite often. It a mixed bag of people who I couldn't put into one category but a surprising number of them were always appreciative of the care they were given (if they weren't under the influence when brought in).

Of the homeless that I got to know, quite a few had families who cared about them but had lost touch with them. Usually, there was a problem- like mild schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or substance use disorder - that started the spiral that ended up with them being homeless. Once the spiral starts, they start accumulating tickets for vagrancy or petty crimes, followed by failure to appeal citations which results in a length criminal record. Once you have a record, it's hard to get anyone to rent to you.

A social worker that I worked with commented that for people who have social phobias or difficulties navigating societal frustrations, living away from people in a space of your own has its own appeal, even if it is on the street.

And in the very cold weather, one of two things happen. Either they are convinced to come to a warming shelter by the police and social workers...or are loaded up with coats and blankets and food to keep them warm. Even then, every winter, there are those who die of exposure in the cities.

Or carbon monoxide poisoning or from accidentally setting their encampment on fire.

 

[cabinfever]

In the US, this is now known as "public camping" because vagrancy is still a misdemeanor but most jurisdictions allow "camping" as long as the person is on public property (which technically, is owned by the citizenry).

The thing with homelessness is that it tends to get reduced to a single cause - like substance addiction. It's much more complicated and it has a lot of causes, most of them related to mental illness (or conditions that we consider mental illness).

It always surprises me to hear about homeless people in places like Canada that have socialized healthcare and miserable winters. A couple years ago, one of my friends who lives in the South commented that after an unusual cold snap where they had sub-freezing temperatures for a week, the people in homeless encampments disappeared. The media didn't cover the story, so it's not clear whether law enforcement picked them up... and whether they were picked up alive or dead.

In my city - every year when it starts getting cold in October they open up the Arrmory and use it to shelter homeless people - lots of beds and supervision.

The problem now is that there are too many homeless people and not enough beds.

 

[NotHardUp1]

If you have any doubts about the constituency of the "homeless," work a soup kitchen for a time. You'll see how many perfectly sane folks are out there, basically opting out. It's still right to feed them, but it's not right to portray all of them as victims or crazies.

Terming people who are hoarders or drifters as people we redefine as mentally ill, doesn't make them so in any way that makes them incapable or not responsible for their choices, their ongoing choices.

 

[KaraBulut]

In my city - every year when it starts getting cold in October they open up the Arrmory and use it to shelter homeless people - lots of beds and supervision.

The problem now is that there are too many homeless people and not enough beds.

I've lived in places where there were people who preferred to sleep on the street outside the shelter. They said it was less noisy at night and they weren't bothered my the missionaries trying to save their souls.

If you have any doubts about the constituency of the "homeless," work a soup kitchen for a time. You'll see how many perfectly sane folks are out there, basically opting out. It's still right to feed them, but it's not right to portray all of them as victims or crazies...

I have worked in food pantries and "meal centers". The thing to keep in mind is that you're seeing the more social people in those locations. A lot of the time, it's not just about the food; sometimes It's about being around other people and combating the feeling of loneliness (which is true of a lot of the people volunteering, too).

There's another population that don't have the social skills and don't like to be around that many people. They're harder to reach and to understand.

 

[NotHardUp1]

That is most certainly true, as well as there being a criminal population that won't risk arrest, and an anti-social population that doesn't want anything to do with institutions or group anything.

Unfortunately, a lot of the people panhandling are not truly homeless, nor are many of those in tent cities, in that they have a choice, but choose a transient existence. Too many middle class people see that and assume it's a barometer of poverty, or involuntary poverty.