I bet Gov. Jindal feels like an idiot.

[jackoroe]

Don’t underestimate what a Yellowstone eruption might do. The US government continues to fund research and monitoring of the volcano.

(Maybe some people would rather not know.)

If Yellowstone lets loose, we won't need the government to tell us, that's for sure!

 

[Sausy]

If Yellowstone lets loose, we won't need the government to tell us, that's for sure!

If Yellowstone lets loose,global warming will be the least of our problems.That is a truly frightening scenario and I hope that nothing to that extent ever occurs there.

 

[Shafted]

You people? WTF?

Hey, I'm just saying we didn't spend $140m and yet we knew it would erupt? Am I right? Am I right? Dude, lighten up. I understand fully.

Well, as long as you know that we're monitoring more than one volcano with $140m.

 

[TickTockMan]

Then there's the one in downtown Portland that they used to think was dead, but once nearly melted a parking lot.

Do you know what the name of it is or when it happened? I want to look up more infomation on it.

 

[Kulindahr]

And yet somehow we knew it was going to erupt without spending $140m.

Heh.
Well, yes -- but we have a good number of volcanoes around that aren't being watched well. Since St. Helens shocked the volcano world by revealing that the one magma chamber, one volcano scenario wasn't the nice tidy reality everyone thought it was, a lot of things have been re-evaluated, and among those has been that a good number of volcanoes once rated as extinct have been recategorized as dormant -- which means they need watching. Besides that, there are volcanoes that are woefully sub-monitored; Rainier is one, a mountain which could potentially kill millions if it did a burst/cataclysmic eruption -- towns are actually growing right up its flanks, and the only way evacuation can be done well and efficiently is if there is clear, definite warning (the last time I talked with a geologist who dealt with Rainier, they had a wish list of about $15 million for monitoring for that mountain alone!).
And the truth is that we don't know enough yet. Most predictions of eruptions are in a form much like weather forecasts here in the Pacific Northwest: like, 60% chance of precipitation, which could mean we might get rain most of the day, might have some brief showers, could get hail, or might see nothing at all. That's not definite enough for politicians to be willing to order people to evacuate -- and if they put their money on the 40% chance of nothing at all, and it turns out to be the extreme other end with violence that kills people, it isn't just their careers that will be hurt.

On the local news here in Seattle -- they mentioned that several pilots said the advanced warning very possibly saved their lives -- since they were routed AROUND it instead of OVER it...

Volcanic ash and Jet engines don't mix well...

Not just jet engines -- when St. Helens erupted, and scattered ash around the world, the larger ash particles (still not as big as sand grains) ruined car engines, air conditioners, lawn mowers, even bicycle pedal bearings. Basically, anything with moving parts that isn't sufficiently sealed against near-microscopic grit is at risk from volcanic ash -- the degree of risk depending on the type of volcano and type of eruption.
And that latter is another good reason for monitoring: we know that some volcanoes can erupt in more than one way, and it would be very helpful to know what sort of eruption is coming, so preparations can be made. If a mountain is going to shove out blobs of semi-molten material (sort of like the earth taking a dump), there's usually not much need for any evacuation; if it's just going to be ash and cinder, evacuation and other needs will depend on the weather (some St. Helens ash fell on ships 500 km west of Oregon in one eruption; in a few places it rained mud when ash mixed with clouds -- and some of that rain wouldn't have occurred had there not been the ash!), and if there could be pyroclastic flows (think a tidal wave of dust and grit hot enough to melt the windows of your house on contact, even as it's setting the walls on fire), people need to move NOW, because those buggers can rip down a slope and across the land at better than 150 kph.

Also interesting to this story is that the $140 million includes more than volcano monitoring …

What is rather ironic about Governor Jindal’s complaint is that some of the stimulus money will be expended for US Geological Survey equipment used to measure rising river waters and storm surges – quite likely deployed to areas of coastal Louisiana. [Link]

Trivia time: flow meters are also used for volcano monitoring. When a volcano is a mountain with glaciers, no warming may appear on heat sensors, because the ice has a cooling effect -- but the glacial ice can be melting from underneath, and a sudden surge in flow (apart from heavy precipitation) from glacial streams can mean it's getting hot under there (ice underneath a glacier can melt and accumulate until it finds a way out).
Sudden flows like that can also precede sudden rushes of glaciers downhill... an event that is possible as a precursor to an eruption.

One thing I learned from volcanology at OSU was that volcanoes are scary critters. If I were a billionaire, I'd be easily persuaded to write checks for improved monitoring anywhere people I know live -- which would cover about every volcano in the lower 48.

 

[Kulindahr]

If Yellowstone lets loose,global warming will be the least of our problems.That is a truly frightening scenario and I hope that nothing to that extent ever occurs there.

Oh, come on -- you don't think we could handle something that could wipe out Pocatello, Bozeman, Billings, threaten Boise and Salt Lake, and dump tons of ash and even rock across half the continent?




But thinking of truly cataclysmic eruptions, a geologist at OSU thinks it's possible for another Bonneville flood basalt eruption to occur -- lava a few meters deep racing at 50 kph or more across three states....

Volcanology reminds us that while the earth seems like a nice place to live, the planet itself doesn't really 'care' if we're here or not -- it just keeps doing its heat-driven thing.

 

[Kulindahr]

Do you know what the name of it is or when it happened? I want to look up more infomation on it.

I'm thinking it was Mt. Tabor, but I'm not certain. It was back when St. Helens erupted -- it was something that made volcanologists take a second look at the one magma chamber, one volcano model.

I'll try contacting OSU geology about it -- they should know.
And if that's the one, I'm going to have to edit the Wikipedia article....

 

[Sausy]

Oh, come on -- you don't think we could handle something that could wipe out Pocatello, Bozeman, Billings, threaten Boise and Salt Lake, and dump tons of ash and even rock across half the continent?




But thinking of truly cataclysmic eruptions, a geologist at OSU thinks it's possible for another Bonneville flood basalt eruption to occur -- lava a few meters deep racing at 50 kph or more across three states....

Volcanology reminds us that while the earth seems like a nice place to live, the planet itself doesn't really 'care' if we're here or not -- it just keeps doing its heat-driven thing.

All those more local events would be terrible,but the impact of all that ash and rock will be devastating socially and economically for the country as a whole.We're having enough trouble dealing with a serious recession as it is now... the impact of something like that plus the Bonneville flood basalt eruption in cost of lives lost or impacted,money to clean up and rebuild....the dvastation to much of our breadbasket and economy overall....I like think myself a cautious optimist at heart but I really think that will throw us for a major loop for quite a while.

The funding for the volcano research is well worth the price tag.While it can be debated whether it belonged in the stimulus,any science we can gather in understanding how volcanoes work is vitally needed.

And history does show Mother Earth can be a motherfucker at times.It did its thing without us for 4 billion or so years....we just have to best understand how to adapt to the circumstances of her cycles so we can best protect ourselves as necessary as it is to be good stewards of her resources and natural richness and beauty.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ I was being a bit sarcastic. Losing several major cities in several states would be devastating -- just rebuilding the interstates and other transportation infrastructure through the areas Yellowstone could wipe out would cripple the economy!

 

[Sausy]

^ I was being a bit sarcastic. Losing several major cities in several states would be devastating -- just rebuilding the interstates and other transportation infrastructure through the areas Yellowstone could wipe out would cripple the economy!

I thought so.Barack Obama's responsibility right now is to help set the economy on firm ground.No fast tracking for however well intentioned incredibly risky and undebated social revolution in policy.Incrementalism,experimentation on the state levels on what programs in the health,energy and infrastructure is important but policy in those areas and others must be roundly debated and fleshed out.With trillions at stake there is no room for error....and in the case oif severe national emergency we must be able to have as much flexibility and capability to handle something really devastating.

I'm not quite the libertarian you are Kuli but I believe our government must be as accountable to the people as possible.The Republicans failed in their time of controlling the White House and Congress,the Bush Administration passed along a trillion dollar deficit.However,that does not in turn allow President Obama to potentially lead us,in transforming our society to incur deficits of ten times that amount,with the annual service of that debt in the neighborhood of 800 BILLION dollars.

Sorry for wandering off the topic,but he amounts being merntioned are staggering.Almost incomprehensible.That a meager percentage of the money
allocated for the volcano project couldn't have just been passed through an independent bill is a matter of debate but it is targeted money well spent.One of the few cases of money well spent we're seeing in Washington now.I was a big Obama supporter hopeful he would govern from the center and gradually try enacting those measures of his agenda dearest to his set of priorities after he tackled getting our economy on track.So far,he's proven anything but ...depressingly stubborn and mistake prone and arrogantly tin eared about the impact of what he has been prioritizing.

 

[TickTockMan]

I'm thinking it was Mt. Tabor, but I'm not certain. It was back when St. Helens erupted -- it was something that made volcanologists take a second look at the one magma chamber, one volcano model.

I'll try contacting OSU geology about it -- they should know.
And if that's the one, I'm going to have to edit the Wikipedia article....

Thanks for the info.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Mt. Tabor seems to be the only volcanic spot in Portland. I haven't been able to confirm the event, so I sent a message to the volcanologists at OSU. If it's associated with the St. Helens eruptions, I'm sure someone will remember it -- that's a very important event to the entire geosciences department, since they lost a brilliant volcanologist when the mountain blew.

 

[Glafna]

Oh, come on -- you don't think we could handle something that could wipe out Pocatello, Bozeman, Billings, threaten Boise and Salt Lake, and dump tons of ash and even rock across half the continent?

Actually, estimates are placing it at world-changing if it erupts.

 

[Kulindahr]

Actually, estimates are placing it at world-changing if it erupts.

I was limiting myself to the first 24 hours.

 

[Lewis1]

jindel Is Still Right On The Money
So What The Volcano Erupted Spending Loads On Top Of Loads On Top Of Loads Of Money Just To Say When Where & How It Will Erupt Is Just Plain Wastefull & Stupid. If That Money Is Not Being Used To Somehow Stop The Eruptions & Their Aftermath Then Watching It Is Really Pointless & Adding Money In The Millions Really Makes It Basically A Wastefull Earmark Of Money

 

[Kulindahr]

^
I guess you didn't read the thread.

I'm sure that when an eruption happens that no one could predict because you didn't want the money spent, the tens of thousands of people who die will feel happy that there weren't any earmarks.

Speaking of "stupid" -- that's a good word to apply to the notion of "To Somehow Stop The Eruptions". Do you actually know what a volcano is????

 

[pmpinla]

jindel Is Still Right On The Money
So What The Volcano Erupted Spending Loads On Top Of Loads On Top Of Loads Of Money Just To Say When Where & How It Will Erupt Is Just Plain Wastefull & Stupid. If That Money Is Not Being Used To Somehow Stop The Eruptions & Their Aftermath Then Watching It Is Really Pointless & Adding Money In The Millions Really Makes It Basically A Wastefull Earmark Of Money

Lewis1, your comments are, arguably, some of the most idiotic ever posted on a JUB thread. As Kulindahr correctly questions, do you even know what a volcano is and what force it can generate? There is no power on earth that can stop a volcano from erupting. When a volcano decides to explode, there's nothing we humans can do about it. The purpose of monitoring volcanoes is to gain some insight when an explosion is imminent and thus to give the surrounding population time to evacuate and thereby save lives, a very worthwhile expenditure of funds. While magma doesn't generally travel at high speed, the same is not true for pyroclastic flows which can exceed 100 mph and devastate everything in their path.

 

[Glafna]

I was limiting myself to the first 24 hours.

Ah, I see, although you failed to mention how the initial ash clouds would hit the Canadian border.

 

[Glafna]

jindel Is Still Right On The Money
So What The Volcano Erupted Spending Loads On Top Of Loads On Top Of Loads Of Money Just To Say When Where & How It Will Erupt Is Just Plain Wastefull & Stupid. If That Money Is Not Being Used To Somehow Stop The Eruptions & Their Aftermath Then Watching It Is Really Pointless & Adding Money In The Millions Really Makes It Basically A Wastefull Earmark Of Money

Money was used for: Maintaining and replacing equipment responsible for general surveys, as well as monitoring volcanoes. Monitoring the volcanoes for signs of activity, and making it more likely to predict an eruption, therefore saving lives.

We CANNOT stop eruptions, as it would cause unknown damage to the surrounding area, and the planet. OK then, lets follow your logic. How many people would die if a volcano erupted? How many could we have saved if we had known about it ahead of time??

 

[Lewis1]

Money was used for: Maintaining and replacing equipment responsible for general surveys, as well as monitoring volcanoes. Monitoring the volcanoes for signs of activity, and making it more likely to predict an eruption, therefore saving lives.

We CANNOT stop eruptions, as it would cause unknown damage to the surrounding area, and the planet. OK then, lets follow your logic. How many people would die if a volcano erupted? How many could we have saved if we had known about it ahead of time??

blah blah blah we have always had warnings in place for natural disasters but eventually the warnings became preety standard while being embedded in our local evening news from meteorologists im not saying do not try to predict them & warn ppul im saying stop fronting like volcanic activity is so rare & foreignh that an over abundance of money has to be allotted for a simple 'its erupting warch out' & there lil warning neverstop the extreeme devistation it may cause

wasrefull spending