I can't get a read on this guy or what we're doing.

[arpeggi]

I met this guy on Scruff about a month and a half ago. Let's call him Devin. We had some really great conversation over about a week and then exchanged phone numbers. He invited me over for cartoons and ice cream (so adorable) and I was immediately attracted to him. We were not physical or intimate and left it at that. We continued to text every 2-3 days. Had another very platonic night or two of cartoons and ice cream or dinner. We're both fairly active and met for a run one night, and went out for dinner after. So it went on like this for a few weeks, developing some great chemistry but not being physical. I wasn't getting any signals from him and wasn't sure if we were just budding a friendship or what, so I never made a move.

Since it seemed like more of a friendship than dating, and he has been traveling very frequently, I saw other guys. I had a couple terrible dates but also have a FWB I slept with during this time (who is now monogamous and no longer WB)

The night before Christmas Eve, Devin and I had dinner again and we ended up being intimate. This physical chemistry was out of this world. No penetration but everything else was so great, we did it again in the morning. Everything from his touch, to kissing him, to lying in bed cuddling, could not have been better. We kissed goodbye in the morning and I left with some of his delicious cookies.

A few days later he picked me up to go trail running. We had brunch after and it was nice. When he dropped me off though, I kind of thought he was going in for a kiss, but it ended up being a hug. So it felt a little awkward.

He went on a ski trip after that so I didn't see him for several days. He came back and we met up again at his place. We were again intimate and it was great and hot and awesome. I even swallowed his cum while blowing him, which I never ever do. I knew he had to work early in the morning, but after being intimate I kind of expected (wanted) to stay the night again. Or at least to cuddle for a little while before leaving. He kind of abruptly asked me if I was planning to sleep over. I was caught a bit off guard and decided it probably was best for both of us if I left. i wasn't upset but just a bit disappointed.
Also, it turns out he was leaving for a 7 day trip to Hawaii (via San francisco) in two days. I don't recall him ever mentioning it. Not that he's obligated to tell me at this point, but it seemed a bit odd that I didn't know.

I didn't hear from him for about 7 days until his flight back was delayed in SF, and he texted and we had a nice chat again. He invited me over the next day and he showed me his trip photos and everything. We cuddled on the couch a bit, but I didn't make a move or anything because I knew he had to work early again and was tired from his flight, so left it at that with a hug.
He invited me over again the next day. I brought over some food to make soup at his place and we ate dinner and watched a movie. We cuddled on the couch and he fell asleep on my shoulder and it was nice and sweet. He had to work early again, so I decided to leave at bedtime. But this time when saying goodbye, I kissed him goodbye. It was a long kiss and he joked about us both getting hard and he kind of grabbed at me. But it was already getting late and I didn't want to keep him up.

And that's that. And I'm feeling alot of mixed signals, and perhaps giving some. Things are just so unclear. Are we "seeing each other"? Are we FWB? I feel like I can cross eliminate fuck buddies.

Also, when he was in SF he said he had coffee with a guy he met on Grindr. The guy wanted to fool around but he told the guy that isn't his style...

I sure wish I knew what his style is. I want to just ask him, but I feel it really could go either way.

I just really don't know how much of myself to invest in this guy because I feel like I'm kind of falling for him, but trying not to rush it. I've only been out of an LTR for about 5 months. My Scruff profile did say I'm not looking for LTR, so maybe he's confused too.

 

[62624rd]

it is best to ask him. I had someone do me that/this way one time and i tried to figure out and even ask friends about it. There reply was just ask him how he feels without freaking him out.

 

[arpeggi]

it is best to ask him. I had someone do me that/this way one time and i tried to figure out and even ask friends about it. There reply was just ask him how he feels without freaking him out.

Yeah I really don't want to freak him out. That's what I'm afraid of. He told me once he thought of moving to New York, but would stay in Portland for the right person...

But nothing related since. He hasn't talked much about exes or anything like that. So I know he is relationship minded. And I know he doesn't just hookup with guys. And I know he doesn't have time to be seeing anyone else. Part of me thinks it might be too early to ask.

 

[mcbrion]

You can say to him that you're finding yourself liking him and you were wondering if he was feeling the same or is it something different for him? That way, it frees him up: you're allowing that he might feel different and that it's okay for him to express it to you. It's direct, but lets him feel he has permission to say whatever's on his mind.
If he vacillates when you're being open, then you at least know he's unsure in his mind where he wants thing to go with you, and you can make your own decision, independent of what he wants. It gives you more freedom - even if you like him - to decide to date other guys, and if he comes around, and you're available, then fine.

 

[62624rd]

mcbrion nailed it.

 

[kallipolis]

And I'm feeling alot of mixed signals, and perhaps giving some. Things are just so unclear. Are we "seeing each other"? Are we FWB? I feel like I can cross eliminate fuck buddies.

You may well be over thinking your friendship with "Devin."

Let the relationship flow freely without concerning yourself with your perceived need to know what your partner may, or may not be thinking about you. An obsessive over concern for your status might well speak more of your sense of insecurity.

Your intuition is a much better guide on the "status" of your friendship with "Devin."

Simply, enjoy the moment, with "Devin."

There are no securities in life, save knowing that nothing lasts forever.

 

[KaraBulut]

Since it's been a month and a half and this guy sounds like he has a pretty complicated schedule, it sounds like it's too early to be giving a lot of consideration to where it's going. You're both still in the process of getting to know each other- as friends and as FWB.

What's probably more important is for you to decide what you want. If you are looking for a relationship, this is probably the wrong place to look. If you're okay with continuing to let things play out (as they would with anyone that you were in the process of getting to know), then continue seeing him (and other people) until you determine whether he's someone that you might be interested in pursuing a relationship with.

 

[eastofeden]

It sounds to me like he is still looking for "that guy" to make him stay in Portland. The reason I say this...he had a date with a guy he met on Grindr..so it is a safe bet that he hasn't made up his mind....or maybe he has which is why he is looking....

Other than that..I got nothing. My experience is always love at first sight and I don't know any other way to do things because my goal was always to avoid love..not look for it. A guy like this would be my perfect excuse to think I get a little more free single time.

 

[jaysizzles]

I'm always one to advocate talking about what the both of you want or are looking for in a relationship once you each realize you like each other and there is intimacy. I mean, you had his dick in your mouth, you should be able to ask him what he's thinking...no? Why be afraid to ask him if he would like you to spend the night, rather than just assume he doesn't? So what if he says "not tonight"...no harm/nothing personal and not a rejection.

It can be awkward to bring up any relationship talk though, but how can you relax and enjoy each other when you don't know what to expect...it's in the back of your mind and will gnaw away at you until you find out what he's thinking and looking for. With this guy traveling a lot and potentially moving, you may expect that he'd be more interested in keeping the relationship casual...but maybe not. Are you afraid of the answer he'll give you...do you sense that he's not looking for anything more than FWB?

I assume you are looking for some kind of acknowledgement that you're in a relationship or at least have the potential to be in one, otherwise you wouldn't be asking advice on how to "read" him...you'd just be going with the flow. If you do have that desire, then I think you're about at that time in this to find out if he can give you what you are looking for. It's not just about what he wants...from your perspective it should be more about what you want. If he isn't on the same page, then you need to know so that you can make a decision on what to do, or perhaps what you're willing to compromise on. Communication is key in any relationship...so just talk to him...find out if you're more than FWB. Good luck.

ps...I assume you are no longer "partnered"...as in your status?

 

[mcbrion]

Arpeggi: if your profile says one thing, and your actions say another, any guy, especially one who's got all his marbles, could be confused about what you want. The 'mixed signals' is not merely a 'maybe': your profile - along with your inexpressiveness - is creating this confusion. And the fact that you've been out of a relationship for only 5 months (and does he know this?) isn't providing any clarity here.

Change your profile so that what you want reflects what you are doing. And don't expect others to be mind readers. I don't think you could scare him away at this point, if he's being open enough with you to tell you that he has a meeting with a guy he met on Grindr (which IS a sex app, isn't it? Isn't that the point of Grindr? I wouldn't know, but I'm going by Grindr's reputation). If you're interested in him, speak your mind and stop trying to "figure him out." If you're truly vulnerable to him, better to find out now, than hang around, dropping hints, as far too many people do. My mother used to say, "I'm not a mind reader. If you want something, ask me for it." It's good advice, and I've found it clears up any misunderstandings immediately. Why don't you try it? We only know what you think you know, but from re-reading your post, you don't know anything for sure, and you haven't asked, either. As the song goes, Express yourself.

 

[arpeggi]

Very sound advice from everyone. Thank you.

He does know I have been out of a LTR for 5 months. No secrets there.

Prior to meeting him, I just wanted connection and whatever that may lead to. I've been in a place the past few months where I need to work on myself. My LTR was very co-dependent, on both ends, and I need to re-establish myself and my needs on an individual level. There are many things I want to do and work on that I could not possibly have done in my previous relationship. Since then, I haven't spent time looking for a boyfriend. Just connections and sometimes sex. And I didn't expect to find someone I like this much. I go onto Scruff now and close it within minutes because I'm so satisfied by what I have with "Devin". Scruff feels pointless when I have someone I already want.

So while I haven't been looking for a relationship, or meeting guys on Scruff with a relationship as my agenda, I wouldn't push away someone I felt strongly about. This isn't the first guy I've met or hooked up with since ending my relationship. I've had numerous dates lead to nothing and a couple FB and FWB situations. I'm not rushing into things, nor do I want to. But with those other guys, I knew what it was. One guy was in an open relationship, for instance. I know where the boundaries are there. More importantly, I know how much to invest myself. It allows me to have fun, no strings attached, and move on. But what those situations lacked for me was passion. And with Devin, I feel so passionately drawn to him.

I very much agree about having open communication. I really do like how things are going with him right now. The sex is great. The kissing is sublime. The cuddling is perfect. I don't recall having this great a physical chemistry with someone. I find myself holding back on trying to do romantic things, thinking it's too soon for that. There's so much we don't know about each other. And sometimes I just crave being with him throughout the day. I often get so turned on just thinking about him. The word "love" sometimes comes to mind, and it kind of freaks me out. I want to kiss him hello and goodbye and cook breakfasts in our underwear and call him "babe". I tell myself these are romantic extremes that we are not ready for. But it really starts to make me think about what I REALLY want, with him or without him.

 

[jaysizzles]

Perhaps all you really need to say to him, when you are cuddling up, is that you really like what you have with him right now. I'm sure he'll have some kind of positive reaction to that, and then you can play by ear what should or shouldn't be said from there. And...nothing wrong with a hug and a kiss when you greet him...even a "I missed you". I can tell you don't want to jump too many steps all at once...keeping it slow and steady, but adding a little more affection from time to time, or letting a "babe" slip out, isn't going to doom the relationship or cross the line.

 

[mcbrion]

I agree with jaysizzles.

I've found that when people are "thinking" their way thru being with someone instead of just "feeling" and expressing those feelings, that's what prevents natural expansion of a connection. You can't get closer by being closed down. Affection will draw someone closer to you if they like you, too. It doesn't make them run out of the room. That is more likely to happen when someone is afraid of the fact that they like you. Touch his hand or just rub the back of it sometime if you're watching a tv show or movie. That sends a non-verbal message that says "I like being with you." That happens to be a very sweet gesture, and is romantic without having to say words. Expressing yourself is not always a verbal thing. A gentle touch, or putting your face up to his and nuzzling him (yes, like your dog might do) for a few seconds is endearing. And he either wants you to be endearing or he doesn't.

 

[arpeggi]

I agree with jaysizzles.

I've found that when people are "thinking" their way thru being with someone instead of just "feeling" and expressing those feelings, that's what prevents natural expansion of a connection. You can't get closer by being closed down. Affection will draw someone closer to you if they like you, too. It doesn't make them run out of the room. That is more likely to happen when someone is afraid of the fact that they like you. Touch his hand or just rub the back of it sometime if you're watching a tv show or movie. That sends a non-verbal message that says "I like being with you." That happens to be a very sweet gesture, and is romantic without having to say words. Expressing yourself is not always a verbal thing. A gentle touch, or putting your face up to his and nuzzling him (yes, like your dog might do) for a few seconds is endearing. And he either wants you to be endearing or he doesn't.

We actually do this quite a bit, far more than hooking up. We spend a lot of time cuddling on the couch, watching cartoons or movies. He's been the one to initiate it actually. Lots of brushing fingers on each other's legs, while spooning, embracing, and very affectionate touching and light massaging. I respond to it very well and reciprocate. I fucking love it. And it's in these moments when I feel most connected to him and wanting more. So when he's more distant and acting like things are more casual, this is what I mean by signals being mixed and being a little confused. This is why I made the move to kiss him goodbye last week. After cuddling like this and it feeling so real and connected, how do you just leave that with a hug? Maybe he is sending a non-verbal message, like you say, and he's wanting to express the same things I am.

I totally get what you're saying about expressing myself though. Expressing myself directly is not within my comfort zone. That's not an excuse. I'm very aware of the problems it causes. I'm a very conflict avoidant person and working on making positive changes in this regard. Never a better opportunity to work on that than now...

 

[mcbrion]

Thanks for expanding on the level of affection you guys demonstrate to each other.
The New York Times has an article on Modern Love, which would work just as well for gay as for straights. Here's the link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/f...all-in-love-with-anyone-do-this.html?emc=eta1

Maybe you could just read up on it. There are 36 questions (they're buried in the article) that help people develop intimacy. You could pull out a few of the questions and ask them to yourself, although it's meant to be done with someone else. I've looked it over and it's great for giving people getting closer. Since being direct is not your style, you may want to wait to do this exercise with him, if you two get to the point where you're speaking affection instead of keeping it non-verbal.
And don't wander too far into staying inarticulate about what you want. It hurts far more when you get into liking someone and let things drift and just hope for the best. That's why so many people become bitter: they avoided doing what was needed to advance the relationship, and found out, a year later, that the other person wasn't where they were at all. And unfortunately, it can't be blamed on the other person if both are avoiding "that conversation." I've had boyfriends whom I realized were inexpressive and - at least for me - it caused problems resulting in my walking away, because I didn't know what was going on inside them.
Leo Buscaglia, in Born To Love, has a very wise last paragraph in the section "Avoiding Ourselves":"We cannot, hiding who we are, ask strangers, hiding who THEY are, to love us, and expect to find happiness."
From what you've written so far, you're self aware. I hope you and this guy can bring happiness into each other's lives.

 

[mcbrion]

P.S. I just saw the article again (I'd emailed it to myself) and couldn't see, easily, where the questions were. This is quicker - and you can download it on your phone (it's an app). It's also in Psychology Today:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/open-gently/201310/36-questions-bring-you-closer-together

 

[mcbrion]

One of my buddies took this and then said, the questions got repetitive. He has rather a hard time recognizing what real intimacy looks like (oh, the things our parents do wrong, bless their hearts!). If you take this, put aside YOUR way of thinking and just do all 36 questions. They're not repetitive: each one is meant to get at something from a slightly different angle. It might LOOK repetitive, but it is not.