I dont Understand flaming queers

[Crackberry]

i know where you're going with this question, so i already know what your opinion on this matter is.

the way that i move and talk has always been the same way that i move and talk since i was a child. feminine gay men were not born into this world immediately with feminine voice and feminine movement; there is a conscious choice in making one's self act, feel, and behave like a woman. as men, we were born to sound and move differently than women that's why our body structure is different. it is almost a process with which a man learns to act and talk like a woman once that conscious decision has been made.

Uhm, no? You're absolutely wrong. And you have nothing to back that up other than the thoughts in your own head. Feminine men and masculine women can be traced back to very early childhood. You move, act, and speak the way you do because that's what comes naturally to you. Feminine men do the same. And unless you're in their heads and bodies, you can't really say differently.

what you're not understanding here is the fact that what i am confused about is not so much the respect and equality that everyone deserves (which i support 100%). my initial comment was just an agreement with the OP that i don't quite get men who wants to look and act like women when that goes against what being attracted to men is all about. just because i feel that way doesn't mean that i treat everyone differently. all i care about when i judge people is what's inside of them and not the physical aspect of their lives.

Right, and people keep answering your question but you refuse to accept the answer because it does not fit into your world view. Feminine men are not ACTING a certain way. They ARE a certain way. Who gets to decide what being attracted to men is all about? Some people are attracted to beer-guzzling sports guys. Some people are attracted to geeks with glasses. Some people are attracted to skinny emo guys. And yes, as evidenced here in this forum, some people are attracted to feminine men. There is no rule book or manual somewhere telling us what a man should be like and what a woman should be like. There really isn't anything to understand beyond that.

 

[Crackberry]

who are you to say that i'm absolutely wrong? i have a degree in psychology and have taken many classes about people's behavior, so i don't need insults from anyone.

this is a no flame zone, so i will not go any further than this. i am not asking you to change your opinion on things, so respect my opinion and the opinion of those who don't agree with your ideas.

That's what happens in a discussion. Both people think they're right, and through the discourse, one person or both people either changes their opinion, sees things in a new light, or walks away with nothing accomplished. You made a statement that is false, and you have no evidence or rationale to back it up.

 

[Caaake]

great response!

i don't understand the need to bash the OP...he simply is asking a valid question. i, for one, feels the same way about men acting like women; i don't judge them in any way, but like the OP, i just don't get where they're coming from. that doesn't make me a judgemental person because it is not my intention to judge them for who they are--i am just not understanding their behavior, i guess.

the poster above mentioned a pretty good opinion about the portrayal of gays in movies. where i came from, almost 90% of gay men act like women. that was looked at as the norm when someone is gay, and those who are not transgendered still act and talk like women. i never understood why that was the case, and it really didn't help me at all and didn't encourage me to come out because acting like a woman was never my intention, and the only thing different about me as a gay guy is that i like men not women. it was a big shock to me living here in the US and knowing how being gay here could be as normal as i imagined it would be (not that there's something wrong or abnormal about being feminine). if anything, i think being gay in the US emphasizes too much on being way too masculine and having those "to-die-for" bodies we see on gay porn. i guess society plays a role as well whether we consider it a factor or not.

i really don't see anything wrong with lewis1's question for as long as he doesn't treat the feminine gays differently than the rest of us.

Thank you! I agree with and appreciate your response back.

Why do you have to understand? In addition, it almost seems as if you're implying that it is a conscious decision. Either way, for whatever reasons, that's who they are as people.

So why are you implying that its an unconscious decision. Those who do it consciously might be offended, right??

Who's to say that those men who changed from masculine to feminine were not being true to themselves? So while it may have been a conscious choice, they may have made a choice to be themselves.

No one is judging you. I have not said anything about your character, so you do not have to be defensive.

So no one can theorize?

That's what happens in a discussion. Both people think they're right, and through the discourse, one person or both people either changes their opinion, sees things in a new light, or walks away with nothing accomplished. You made a statement that is false, and you have no evidence or rationale to back it up.

None of us are right about everything. and you also cannot make a generalization or insinuate that there are NO effeminate gays that put this characteristic "on"... because simply we don't know why ALL, every single effeminate gay persons ARE OR act this way. You can say "I think that most or some effeminate people, in my experiences..blah blah, have been doing it consciously." Just like women are not all one way and men the other, personality wise..sexually.. whatever, as studies/books suggest they are different, example; The popular book, "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus." These things are simply generalized, which cannot happen because when putting people into categories we are never going to have every single person put in those categories fit the mold, nor should they!

Anywoo the THEORY of men putting on and/or acting this way (...I think i mentioned this earlier in the thread but anyway its worth mentioning again) there was a male I went to college with who spoke in one of the most effeminate voices I have ever heard a human make, even higher pitched little girl's tone, everytime I heard him spoke, he sounded this way, then in the library one day, I heard a deep groggy low pitched voice similar of that of..i dont know, Joe Biden (haha), talking to the librarian behind the counter and I could barely believe it was him!
I tell this story to a lot of my friends because for one, I had a crush on this kid, and two.. I think its quite suprising that one has the ability of changing the way they interact, the pitch of their voice, and characteristics/mannerisms at the drop of a hat, no?
He spoke a few words to this woman this way, and so I thought to myself, if his voice has the ability of reaching the low point, why is he speaking in the highest pitch possible all the time. Which is natural? I dont think anyone is this thread (tell me if i'm wrong) is saying "I KNOW that this is the reason 100%." Noone has the answer, and now there are some people defending and/or attacking other individuals for asking a question. We are just trying to find out collective reasoning, a consensus. I could attack anyone on this forum for asking a question, and it would be just as valid, but whats the point? Example; Why do guys enjoy sniffing the skid marks on boxer briefs? A good question, in my opinion. Good so whoever else finds it a good question will discuss and come together and come up with a possibility, using everybody's experiences the best choice, or an answer from someone that makes us think about it more in depth than we have about it before. An response such as "They just do!" does not contribute but rather is a distraction. So, as a few of you may not find this a good question, isn't it distracting to have anyone interupt with attacks, an intelligent conversation on ANY topic? And thinking about why I get frustrated over users who defend and attack others in the thread or the question, is because it suggests to the people contributing to finding answers in the thread (or to me at least), that you are better that us and in a way saying "I don't need to find the answer, because I am entitled enough to name this question an invalid one." Who made you king of what's right and what's wrong to suggest/insinuate/wonder about? No question is a dumb one, right?? We are learning here.....

 

[clorox]

It seems somewhat obvious to me that if you're a gay guy and you know so from a very young age you see all these hetero couples walking around and you begin thinking to yourself consciously or otherwise that the way to get the guy is acting like the girl. Not to say that there are not masculine gay guys that know from a very young age that are not feminine, but it seems the most likely answer. lol How many of you wanted Prince Eric or Duke from G.I. Joe when you were younger? It seems the most likely way to get these people would be to personify traits from the female characters Ariel or Scarlet (I think it was) for example.

I myself will intentionally do something "gay" from time to time so other questionably gay guys will figure it out and approach me.

 

[Crackberry]

None of us are right about everything.

I never claimed...anyone was?

and you also cannot make a generalization or insinuate that there are NO effeminate gays that put this characteristic "on"... because simply we don't know why ALL, every single effeminate gay persons ARE OR act this way. You can say "I think that most or some effeminate people, in my experiences..blah blah, have been doing it consciously."

Regardless of anything anyone says, there's going to be anecdotal evidence to the contrary. But when people make blanket statements such as "I don't understand why effeminate gay men act that way", you're going to get a response on the other side of the coin.

Just like women are not all one way and men the other, personality wise..sexually.. whatever, as studies/books suggest they are different

There are various biological and neurological differences among men and women. What that has to do with someone's speech pattern, pitch of voice, clothing, and mannerisms, I've yet to hear.

example; The popular book, "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus." These things are simply generalized, which cannot happen because when putting people into categories we are never going to have every single person put in those categories fit the mold, nor should they!

Yeah....that's kind of my point.

 

[Caaake]

^ thank you for posting that and really having an open mind.

the problem with some people sometimes is that they are too afraid of questioning what they don't fully understand so they just make a generalization on things based on what they feel is right. there really is nothing wrong with questioning certain things for as long as we admit what we don't know and respect those who do.

my pleasure.

It seems somewhat obvious to me that if you're a gay guy and you know so from a very young age you see all these hetero couples walking around and you begin thinking to yourself consciously or otherwise that the way to get the guy is acting like the girl. Not to say that there are not masculine gay guys that know from a very young age that are not feminine, but it seems the most likely answer. lol How many of you wanted Prince Eric or Duke from G.I. Joe when you were younger? It seems the most likely way to get these people would be to personify traits from the female characters Ariel or Scarlet (I think it was) for example.

I myself will intentionally do something "gay" from time to time so other questionably gay guys will figure it out and approach me.

Thank you for your contribution! That's something that i've wondered as to why and makes sense to why its there. So it is the same as when a female is changing the way she behaves/dresses/acts when searching for a dominant male as a partner as a male searching for a dominant male as a partner. It's interesting that one must change how they behave/dress/act to attract the demographic they are going after and/or make it easier for the other to stand out to them.

 

[AngelFromAbove]

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that while being gay is not a choice, acting and looking like a woman is. I may not understand why some would want to be like a woman, but I do have respect for them nonetheless.

You're missing the point. I am not accusing you of lacking respect for effeminate men. These men are behaving in a way that may be natural and/or comfortable for them; these same men may also make a conscious decision to behave in such a manner.

For whatever reason(s), that's who they are as people. It's not simply gay men who are effeminate; there are straight men who are effeminate as well. Everyone does not share the same dispositions, whether they are psychological, sociological, or both. This means that every male is not going to act masculine, according to how you define it.

So why are you implying that its an unconscious decision. Those who do it consciously might be offended, right??

I'm not implying anything. I was offering a counterargument to an implication he made; there is a difference.

So no one can theorize?

Are you reading to what I'm replying? Or are you simply arguing with me just to argue? He originally made statements that effeminate men make these decisions; I offered counter-statements. Yes, people can theorize; however, theorizing and making faulty assumptions are two different frames of thinking.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>i know a guy who only three months ago was the image of a truly masculine guy. he speaks like a tv announcer and looks like a model from abercrombie. he was even married at one point, and he was the last person you'd think would start acting like a woman. he went to new york about a month ago and had undergone a major transformation--he decided to train with top fashion designers on how to act, speak, and dress like a woman. he said that it was one of the hardest things he had to go through but that he's happy that he's finally free. for him, having to look and act like a woman gave him a chance to re-establish himself as a new person. it wasn't something he's been feeling for a long time. it was simply something he had chosen for himself as a way of breaking free from what society considers as normal.

I think you're doing some ad hoc reasoning here. I read the story, and I think "I see. For years, he's felt pressured to act 'normal', but he finally decided he wanted to 'free' - to be who he feels he really is." To me, training with designers and so forth is simply going further with that - taking what he considers "natural" further along.

Semi-related, so I'll bring it up. Whenever people talk about homosexuality being a choice, I tell them this. I did not choose to BE gay. That's in my wiring. But I could've ignored it. I could've dated women, had sex with them, maybe married, had a kid. I didn't. I chose to LIVE gay. I chose to live by the programming, and do what came naturally.

And to me, that's what's up with effeminate guys. They didn't choose to BE femmy - I think it's part of their wiring. But they did choose to LIVE femmy. Do some of them push beyond what comes naturally? Probably. Which of us doesn't, though? I don't think stripping your shirts off and painting your team colors on your chest is ingrained as part of the competitive spirit of human beings, but I can understand how it's a natural progression. Similarly, being effeminate may be part of who they are, and wanting to dress the part simply springs from that.

Lex

 

[vegetaishott2003]

Let me tell you a bit something about Flaming queers!

They have more f**king balls than the rest of us str8 acting gays. They brush off anything that is offensive and move on. Personally....I would never date one....because of their fighting methods if you ever cheat on them...I'm not saying it happened to me before....ummmmm..............

 

[biguy732]

he he he - flaming queers, while I am not attracted to in a sexual way, are just so fucking funny! I mean, with that whole attitude and act, they can do whatever they want because it is JUST AN ACT! I just look at RuPaul - can be flaming and a total bitch - but funnier than hell. Another one is the Lady Chablis from Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil - total flaming queen - but total act.

Now, that being said, I don't think that this is appropriate at all times, such as church on Sunday or a nice family dinner - I think I would have a tough time introducing RuPaul in drag to the family at the dinner table.

 

[inlovewithblair]

he he he - flaming queers, while I am not attracted to in a sexual way, are just so fucking funny! I mean, with that whole attitude and act, they can do whatever they want because it is JUST AN ACT! I just look at RuPaul - can be flaming and a total bitch - but funnier than hell. Another one is the Lady Chablis from Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil - total flaming queen - but total act.

Now, that being said, I don't think that this is appropriate at all times, such as church on Sunday or a nice family dinner - I think I would have a tough time introducing RuPaul in drag to the family at the dinner table.

There are plenty of straight women who like to play up "the act". But, some of them aren't acting, at all.

 

[DanikShade]

despite these explanations, some people just don't fucking get it.

You, sir, just don't fucking get it.The fact that they know who they are, and they're going to be who they are. And they don't care about clods who sneer at them because they're not "acting like a man".

Femmy guys aren't necessarily a turn-on for me.
But guys who are confident and secure in who they are definitely are.

lol

Lex

LMAO! Holy Christ, Lex, you are definitely someone I'd like to have a beer with but there would probably be cops involved. I'm going to suggest that ALL of us have a slight touch of "fem" to us. It may be dominant like you see in the neon barbie boy club kids or it may be recessive to the point of being an "Ultra-Butch, but I think its there in all of us.

I'm a pretty masculine guy, I really don't get into the whole "Gay Scene" which drives a lot of my friends crazy. I dig classic rock, muscle cars, and building things with my hands. The "fems" I know can't fathom this at all lol, but that doesn't stop them from being my friends or our occasionally "getting together" lol. There are as many sub groups in the gay world as there are in the so called normal world.

Lex's comments made me think that there are far to many stereo-types, especially in the gay world where we supposedly hate stereo-types.