I have a newfound respect for Gaddafi

[Lostlover]

Say what you want about him. Call him a dictator, a murderer, a thief and more. But, just don't call him a coward.

He could have bailed and accepted exile, but decided to stay (and died) in Libya.

Compare that to his peers here like Reagan, Bush, and Cheney who all dodged the wars they could have participated in. Cheney even enrolled in a community college several times to get out of war and by then, he was a law school graduate.

While Gaddafi died a brutal death, at least he stood for what he believed in. I can respect that. I don't respect starting wars, getting people killed while you yourself refused to participate in it.

 

[Kensei]

What the hell is this? He pleaded for his begging for mercy before he was murdered. He was a coward and scum. He didn't stand there like a man and accept it.

I don't see how you can have an ounce for respect for him at all, despite any qualities you find he has to be noble.

 

[Phlash]

I guess you might have a point. My opinion was that he was a moron for not leaving.

I've never been a dictator before. I guess I can't really get into his head to see what he was thinking.

 

[JB3]

*Pulls up couch and grabs popcorn*

 

[hotatlboi]

Wtf?

I'm no fan of Bush/Cheney but comparing them to a mass murdering dictator is simply absurd.

 

[zardoz]

Lostlover, Amen! But for NATO's violation of the UN resolution to "protect civilians" and, instead, bomb the hell out of Gaddafi's forces in violation of that resolution is despicable. This rag-tag group of rebels could never have won on their own. Now, watch Libya fall into chaos. Obama was complicit with Britain and France in violation of this resolution. I thought he was so big on international law.

Why, then, doesn't he go after Bahrain's and Yemen's dictator-thugs? Oh, that's right: Bahrain bases our Fifth Fleet, and Yemen helps against al-Qaeda! What nauseating hypocrisy!

He probably wants to go after Assad next: Good luck! Unlike Gaddafi, Assad will have the support of China, Russia and Iran. Watch a Mideast war start if Obama, Britain, and France fuck with Syria!

The rest of you: read the UN resolution. And, Bush and Cheney ARE war criminals!

 

[LittleDove]

Say what you want about him. Call him a dictator, a murderer, a thief and more. But, just don't call him a coward.

He could have bailed and accepted exile, but decided to stay (and died) in Libya.

Compare that to his peers here like Reagan, Bush, and Cheney who all dodged the wars they could have participated in. Cheney even enrolled in a community college several times to get out of war and by then, he was a law school graduate.

While Gaddafi died a brutal death, at least he stood for what he believed in. I can respect that. I don't respect starting wars, getting people killed while you yourself refused to participate in it.

You seem to neglect to note that the end came while he was attempting to flee the country, which rather undercuts your position. It seems to be undercut even further when one notes that this was his second flight, having already fled once before, abandoning his capital.

He didn't die in Libya because he was courageous; he died there because he was caught by the other side before he could get the Hell out of the place. And rather than attribute his actions to any bravery on his part, I think that, given his history, it's much more likely that his delusional megalomania had more to do with his still being in the country when it was plainly obvious to any rational being that his regime was long since over.

Eulogising Gaddafi's 'heroism' simply because he was caught hiding in a drain pipe seems somewhat akin to extolling Martin Bormann's bravery for dying while trying to escape through the sewers of Berlin. I can think of few people who would honour the latter's memory, and I will leave the former to you.

 

[blotterboy]

Wtf?

I'm no fan of Bush/Cheney but comparing them to a mass murdering dictator is simply absurd.

Well if it quacks like a duck...

 

[Just_Believe18]

I'm no fan of President Bush and Cheney, but to compare them to Gaddafi to make the former Libyan dictator as someone respectable is ridiculous.

Gaddafi was a mass murderer, a butcher of his people. There is nothing redeemable or respectable about a monster who drug his country into civil war because of his eccentric ego to stay in power no matter the cost.

This is like creating a thread saying you somehow respect Hitler for his efficiency or Egypt's former dictator Mubarak for providing a good life for his family.

Your partisanship has clouded your common sense, LostLover. At least post a topic that provides new information with a source to actually debate. There's nothing to discuss here except for an offensive opinion.

 

[jackoroe]

Agreed. The comparison is odious. But if I close the thread, I'll be accused to showing favoritism to foreigners again.

If the membership wants it closed, I could just argue it's the will of the people. What do you all think?

 

[rareboy]

I can't fucking believe it.

This man didn't fight for an set of ideals or beliefs.

He fought to hang on to power and wealth. Like Hitler, he is one of the last to die after sending out all the soldiers to fight for him.

A brave man, even one that is batshit insane like gaddaffi is on the battlefield, not in the bunker.

This grovelling rat, hiding in the sewer in the last moments of his life is no hero, He is not worthy of pity or adoration. He is no different than all the other tin-pot dictators who finally are caught and flushed out.

I'd vote for throwing a lock on the thread. It can't go uphill from here.

 

[palbert]

Bush/Cheney not mass murderers.

News to me.

Let's see, we invade a country for contrived reasons and a lot of people die. Oh, I see, it's because WE did it.

And by the way, just why did we go into Afghanistan? To blow a load? I'll never understand that one.

Keep the Thread.

 

[palbert]

I'm no fan of President Bush and Cheney, but to compare them to Gaddafi to make the former Libyan dictator as someone respectable is ridiculous.

Gaddafi was a mass murderer, a butcher of his people. There is nothing redeemable or respectable about a monster who drug his country into civil war because of his eccentric ego to stay in power no matter the cost.

This is like creating a thread saying you somehow respect Hitler for his efficiency or Egypt's former dictator Mubarak for providing a good life for his family.

Your partisanship has clouded your common sense, LostLover. At least post a topic that provides new information with a source to actually debate. There's nothing to discuss here except for an offensive opinion.

Is that our update from inside the Beltway?

As opposed to Bush/Cheney who started a civil war in another country. Oh, I see the difference.

Add: what zardoz said.

This "kinetic military action" was about France's Total Oil's access to the oil fields. And we joined in for our oil companys' stake.

This was a jihad by the classic three of Middle East meddling: Britain, France, and the United States. Next?

Libyan right of self determination. Give me a break.

 

[MisterMajestic]

While Gaddafi died a brutal death, at least he stood for what he believed in. I can respect that. I don't respect starting wars, getting people killed while you yourself refused to participate in it.

LostLover, I Love you man but what is your "Faith/Religion"? I'm asking because if you are a Muslim then that explains part of what you stated...My Father & Step-Mother are Muslims (they Love Farakhan) and I'm not even going to see them until I KNOW I don't have to sit and hear whatever they gotta say......

So Is there another reason why you feel the way you do? Or do you have an issue with "Assassinations" regardless of who the individual is?

Will you give a bit more details?

 

[palbert]

In the interest of full disclosure:

I have stock in Total (or, at least, believe I do).

 

[Lostlover]

What the hell is this? He pleaded for his begging for mercy before he was murdered. He was a coward and scum. He didn't stand there like a man and accept it.

I don't see how you can have an ounce for respect for him at all, despite any qualities you find he has to be noble.

He stayed in Libya. He could have taken asylum in Niger, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Burkina Faso, Algeria or Nicaragua.

Gaddafi wanted to live. I guess fault him for wanting to live.

Gaddafi isn't noble. He just isn't a pussy or a chickenhawk like people his age in the US. Bush, Cheney, and Reagan would have shitted their pants if they were in his position. I probably would have too if I was in Gaddafi's place, but unlike all of them, I'm not starting unnecessary wars.

 

[Lostlover]

Wtf?

I'm no fan of Bush/Cheney but comparing them to a mass murdering dictator is simply absurd.

Dude, where were you during the Iraq war? Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died because of Bush and Cheney's choices? Seriously? You don't hold them responsible for their own decisions?

 

[Lostlover]

Lostlover, Amen! But for NATO's violation of the UN resolution to "protect civilians" and, instead, bomb the hell out of Gaddafi's forces in violation of that resolution is despicable. This rag-tag group of rebels could never have won on their own. Now, watch Libya fall into chaos. Obama was complicit with Britain and France in violation of this resolution. I thought he was so big on international law.

Why, then, doesn't he go after Bahrain's and Yemen's dictator-thugs? Oh, that's right: Bahrain bases our Fifth Fleet, and Yemen helps against al-Qaeda! What nauseating hypocrisy!

He probably wants to go after Assad next: Good luck! Unlike Gaddafi, Assad will have the support of China, Russia and Iran. Watch a Mideast war start if Obama, Britain, and France fuck with Syria!

The rest of you: read the UN resolution. And, Bush and Cheney ARE war criminals!

Completely agree. I'd like to see Assad bloodied and wobbling to his death next. Or more like "hear" about Assad bloodied and wobbling to his death. Gaddafi's death was graphic and especially a video I saw where soldiers were yanking a dead Gaddafi's head by his hair.

 

[Lostlover]

You seem to neglect to note that the end came while he was attempting to flee the country, which rather undercuts your position. It seems to be undercut even further when one notes that this was his second flight, having already fled once before, abandoning his capital.

He didn't die in Libya because he was courageous; he died there because he was caught by the other side before he could get the Hell out of the place. And rather than attribute his actions to any bravery on his part, I think that, given his history, it's much more likely that his delusional megalomania had more to do with his still being in the country when it was plainly obvious to any rational being that his regime was long since over.

Eulogising Gaddafi's 'heroism' simply because he was caught hiding in a drain pipe seems somewhat akin to extolling Martin Bormann's bravery for dying while trying to escape through the sewers of Berlin. I can think of few people who would honour the latter's memory, and I will leave the former to you.

Gaddafi was fleeing Sirte. Whoever said he was leaving the country? He had the opportunity to flee to Niger like one of his sons two months ago or to Algeria to join his wife and daughter. There's an excellent article in the New York Times yesterday that discussed an interview with Gaddafi's chief of staff that survived the blast on Gaddafi's convoy. Gaddafi REFUSED exile telling those around him that he'll die in Libya.

Reagan would have shitted his Depends. "The Mad Dog of the Middle East" fought until the bloody end.

 

[Lostlover]

Bush/Cheney not mass murderers.

News to me.

Let's see, we invade a country for contrived reasons and a lot of people die. Oh, I see, it's because WE did it.

And by the way, just why did we go into Afghanistan? To blow a load? I'll never understand that one.

Keep the Thread.

Iraqis aren't humans to a lot of Americans, both liberals and conservatives. The befuddlement of people when they hear that Bush is a mass murderer goes to show how little (if at all) they think of Iraqis.

They might not look like us, but their blood is just as red as yours and mine.