I have lost faith...

[NickCole]

It's a devastating loss.

And don't get cocky just because you don't happen to live in Virginia. That kind of law can get snuck in anywhere.

Back when AIDS first happened none of us had legal documents giving us the right to hospital visitation. Being barred from the bedside of a suddenly dying boyfriend is a story many of us who were around then could tell. It's a heartbreak not only for your own loss but knowing someone you loved so much had to die all alone and afraid while you fought with stupid heartless hospital employees twenty feet away.

I'm with you lunarus: I could almost cry over it.

 

[tx_doc]

I know what you mean. The same law was passed in Texas. Every county voted for the constitutional ammendment barring gay marriage or even a legal contract that would appear as a marriage - well, every county but the one that I live in. My advise is NOT to leave your home. Stay and fight. Do not give in to the hate. Many of the laws that now protect women and some other minorities were started because someone stayed and fought. I wish you luck.

 

[NickCole]

My advise is NOT to leave your home. Stay and fight. Do not give in to the hate. Many of the laws that now protect women and some other minorities were started because someone stayed and fought.

Oh, and ...

 

[troyboy]

I still think that in 10 years or so all these unconstitutional laws will be overturned. If they are whoever I would be willing to bet that VA would be one of the last states to change. I would suggest that if you stay in VA you find a good lawyer that can word your wills so they can't be challenged. Maybe even contact a group like HRC and they could help you. There are ways around these laws.

 

[ticktickboy69]

I really am sorry for you, but why should you live in a place where they would rather see you dead than happy? You can always move to Massachusetts were (for now) gay marriage is LEGAL!!!!! I am also so sick that it's okay for Brittany Spears to get divorced again and gay people can't even get married at all anywhere, but Massachusetts!

 

[Ben1]

That is very sad. I hate that intolerance, too. But don´t give up and fight for better times. If you don´t want to fight -hey, come to Germany.

 

[Homoaffectional]

Damm it's back to 51% 49%, I knew it was to good to be true.

I know this will be small consolation to Virginians, but Arizona did indeed defeat that anti-gay Prop, being the first state in history to do so. No other state has ever managed that feat -- not California, not Wisconsin, nor Oregon. None of these 'liberal' states could do what Arizona did last night.

We're proud of you, Arizonians!

 

[frankfrank]

I'm so sorry to see your anguish, lunarus. Of course what you feel is entirely justified.



I know that doesn't make it better, either.

I hope that you can find a way to stay and fight it. Your friends will realize that the sky isn't falling because you love another man. I'm confused, though - are you saying that even things like power-of-attorney cannot be designated except to somebody related by blood or marriage?????? And can't somebody will their property as they see fit? I thought that one could designate anybody they choose, for such things.

But I've been hearing stories, most of my life, about denial of hospital visits, inheritances and the like.

There is a bright spot in your state, though - they did get Webb in by a sliver, and he turned out to be the key for shifting the balance of power in the Senate!

Whether the eventual arrangement is called a MARRIAGE or what, I won't feel that there is true equality until is becomes FEDERAL - to the point that the Internal Revenue Service recognizes joint filings for recognized gay couples, and "Don't ask, don't tell" laws exist no longer for the Military or elsewhere.

That so totally sucks though, lunarus. But again I doubt that moving to another state is the most logistical solution, because I believe that MA and VT (and I think CT, too?) are the only states that recognize any such relationships, and those states might not be "your thing" at all.

We can only hope and, yes, PRAY (for those of us who do) for a change to sweep those bad laws from this country, however it will take a while. And we must all fight for our rights.

 

[lunarus]

Well updates:

AssHole Allen is OUTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is some good out of this.

Also my partner and I have been hearing many MANY other people all being straight by the by extremely pissed about this being passed. They feel duped, I had to laugh at their stupidity! Just read the entire thing that has been printed in the news paper and online for years now.

So I believe the lawyers will be getting into this sometime very soon. So we shall see.

When more develops I will let you all know and thanks for all the support!

Oh and Prairie, it is how it is worded. Mean the wording of this shit amendment is such that it cancels out everything for everyone not MARRIED.

 

[Homoaffectional]

Maybe even contact a group like HRC and they could help you.

The only thing HRC helps is themselves... to expensive, black tie dinners that do virtually no one any good. Even their lower level employees don't get invoted to that shit.

It turns out one of the people who leaked the Foley documents to the media, probably sealing the deal for the Dems' victory, was an employee of HRC. His reward? Being fired.

HRC is about as effective in getting anything done as Halliburton is.

 

[riprock]

Lunarus, I feel your pain, I have had to go through this twice now. Once in Texas and now in Virginia. When the Texas vote passed I was so pissed I was yelling FUCK YOU TEXAS at the top of my lungs all the way to work. After going through it once I refused to get my hopes up that the Virginia bill might be defeated. One thing that did make me feel better is that while the asshole right wing talk show hosts were crowing about how the vote was like 78% for the admenment I did the math and the voter turn out was so low that only 12% of the registered voters actually voted for the thing. So that told me that most Texans were not for the bill but however did not really care. I will take apathy over hate any day. And thank god Allen is out.

 

[kce24]

When i hear things like this it makes me so pleased i live in the United Kingdom , and i hope one day you have the same rights as we do over hear .

 

[Kulindahr]

This is the problem with democracy, which Benjamin Frnaklin described as two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. This is why the exaltation of "One man, one vote!" as the basis of power is beyond dangerous: it is wicked, because it means the 50%+1 can define what is "right" and "moral" for the rest.
The United States was not founded on democracy; democracy was a tool that was added. It was not, and never has been, the core value; putting it at the core is costing us the soul of our nation.
The core was, and was always to have been, individual rights, which are intimately connected to the concept of individual sovereignty: that each person belongs to himself, is in charge of himself, and that that principle stands above and beyond any government authority.
But we have drifted to the -- and I mean this word thoroughly -- worship of democracy. Because we are a democracy, the majority thinks they can do no wrong. Because we are a deomcracy, we have put everything in terms of winning and losing. Because we are a democracy, we think that winning means we can demand, we can coerce, others into being what we want, what we like, what we wish and hope. So leaders with agendas come agitating, stirring up the mob, arousing the "righteous" of a state, and imposing law that is contrary to what constitutes America.
The irony is that it has been the Democrats pushing us toward worship of democracy, and Republicans who make use of that to wrench us into the shape of a neo-puritan police state. However stridently they might deny, we can thank both parties for these new laws.

 

[turtle]

I said, several years ago, that it was too soon to push for Marriage, that the general public was not ready for it.


After 40 years of people coming out (the essential ingredient), sodomy laws are history and likely to stay that way.

But in most people's minds Gay Marriage and Straight Marriage are not the same thing, and until they come to the understanding that they are the same, this sort of backlash is just what we should expect.

Straight people do not stop and think that their definition of marriage as a union between one man and one woman reduces the essential element of their marriage to an act of coitus. "Common" knowledge and "common" sense tell them that marriage is, simply by its definition, a heterosexual institution.

Well, it's too late now to progress in a more incremental way, and I do understand. For the first time, in 2007, I will be a "registered domestic partner" with Ed's company, and I could be covered by his health insurance. Of course, since it costs $140/mo to insure him alone, and it would cost $480/mo to cover both of us, it is of little practical use to us. We did sign me up for the Vision plan, so as to make some use of the rights extended to us.

Please understand that, of those who support gay rights, many do so only because they do not believe the government has any right to regulate private, adult sexual activity, not because they believe being gay is natural and normal. A great many still think it is immoral and wrong, they just don't think it should be criminalized any longer.

These people, though supporting gay rights, still believe that being gay is a moral choice, not a natural condition. Do not expect such people to support gay marriage, or anything which would mimic it.

And whatever you do, Virginians, do not abandon your state to the other side. You have a fight to fight, and you have allies you may not recognize in the persons of heterosexual unmarried partners, both the young and, perhaps surprisingly, many unmarried Senior Citizen couples.

-D

 

[Ben1]

turtle, in Germany Gays came into the KZ 60 years ago...and now Marriage is possible...we learned. It can´t be to soon in the US. Greetz Ben

 

[turtle]

KZ?

Modern understanding of homosexuality as a natural phenomenon, rather than a moral choice, are much more advanced in Europe than in the USA, mostly because your churches have not taken the same sort of stand against homosexuality as the vast majority of American churches (even most of the non-fundamentalists) have.

-D