I know I shouldn't be, but I'm now genuinely scared of a Trump presidency

[SaskGuy]

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I agree, we shouldn't tolerate hate, no matter what side it comes from.

Who would tolerate this outside of other irrational people?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Here's a problem.

I saw someone yesterday say that they are for gay rights but they voted for Trump. You do not get to do that, you cannot say that and then vote for someone who is an partners themselves with a very anti-LGBTQ politician.

You cannot also say that you disagree with that side of it and then still vote for that person because when that person does actually take action on taking away rights from these people said voter supported that by voting for said candidate.

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone who does not think LGBTQ people should have rights and someone who will actually be able to take those rights away.

 

[Benvolio]

^While being aware that a welfare system can generate a wilful indifference, or inertia to carry out low paid work, in many Northern European countries there are incentive schemes encouraging the " work shy" to work by threatening to stop welfare benefits.

I am not insensitive to the arguments that you raise here, but also understand that the United States can learn from similar experiences in other countries how best to remedy those matters that you raise for our consideration.

That is not the way democrats think. No democrat would ever admit that welfare encourages illegitimate births or that it encourages people to be work shy or criminal. They would prefer to ignore the problem of black unemployment and crime than admit a flaw in the welfare ideology. Any one who thinks about the subject is a racist, etc.

 

[SaskGuy]

Here's a problem.

I saw someone yesterday say that they are for gay rights but they voted for Trump. You do not get to do that, you cannot say that and then vote for someone who is an partners themselves with a very anti-LGBTQ politician.

You cannot also say that you disagree with that side of it and then still vote for that person because when that person does actually take action on taking away rights from these people said voter supported that by voting for said candidate.

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone who does not think LGBTQ people should have rights and someone who will actually be able to take those rights away.

While it seems odd that a gay person would vote for Trump, stranger things have happened... such as gays, lesbians, women, etc. rabidly defending a certain religion that is violently homophobic and misogynist.

 

[Benvolio]

Here's a problem.

I saw someone yesterday say that they are for gay rights but they voted for Trump. You do not get to do that, you cannot say that and then vote for someone who is an partners themselves with a very anti-LGBTQ politician.

You cannot also say that you disagree with that side of it and then still vote for that person because when that person does actually take action on taking away rights from these people said voter supported that by voting for said candidate.

There is a difference between disagreeing with someone who does not think LGBTQ people should have rights and someone who will actually be able to take those rights away.

Wrong, very wrong. If you think for yourself at all it is unlikely that there will ever be a presidential candidate with whom you agree on all points. There is no reason to believe that Trump or even his followers are anti gay. I doubt if he is at all concerned with gay marriage for instance, and most Republicans are now accepting of it. Of course, there are a minority of very religious people who are anti gay, but they really are a small minority. There is little chance that the supreme court decision on gay marriage will be reversed, since it is based on the equal protection clause. Other items that gays want must stand on their own basis. I am gay but I have never favored laws prohibiting employers from hiring and promoting whom they think is the best person available. I see no reason why the prospective employees rights should be superior to the employers.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I can see Benvolio is trying to play this stuff down as usual. Here is a link to the shit that more than likely are from Trump supporters.

https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.6f990os76

You can believe not believe these if you want, but I used to live in Philly and know people from Philly who actually saw the Swaztika shit. Those I can confirm are legitimate the other of course I cannot say for certainty, though it shouldn't be a surprise if everything here is true.

 

[mikey3000]

Labelling an immigrant/refugee is a distraction.

Please bear in mind that service industries rely upon low cost immigrants to work for a pittance. With a five percent national unemployment rate clearly there are jobs for those willing to work for a low salary....with recent immigrants eager to work to guarantee their future living in the USA. For this reason immigrants are popular with employers anxious to keep their labour costs under control.

Don't immigrants deserve a living wage too? Once here, labour laws should protect them too. But that is NOT what is happening. Service industries are using willing immigrants as an excuse to devalue everyone's wages, and that is what Trump wants to fix. Business is getting richer while the middle class is disappearing. 5% unemployment is nothing to brag about when many are actually working below the poverty line.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

And just so people understand, if they didn't want to be perceived as a racist, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. Then you shouldn't have voted for a racist, misogynist, homophobe, xenophobic, etc.

 

[gsdx]

https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.6f990os76

You can believe not believe these if you want

I believe it, and I'm glad we have laws to make the people who spout such hatred responsible for it. I fear it is going to get worse.

 

[Benvolio]

I can see Benvolio is trying to play this stuff down as usual. Here is a link to the shit that more than likely are from Trump supporters.

https://medium.com/@seanokane/day-1-in-trumps-america-9e4d58381001#.6f990os76

You can believe not believe these if you want, but I used to live in Philly and know people from Philly who actually saw the Swaztika shit. Those I can confirm are legitimate the other of course I cannot say for certainty, though it shouldn't be a surprise if everything here is true.

It only takes one person to draw a swastika. Would you prefer the philosophy of the democrat party: "minorities to the maximum extent possible"?Anti white is racist too, and a reaction to democrat anti white policies was inevitable.

 

[Benvolio]

Don't immigrants deserve a living wage too? Once here, labour laws should protect them too. But that is NOT what is happening. Service industries are using willing immigrants as an excuse to devalue everyone's wages, and that is what Trump wants to fix. Business is getting richer while the middle class is disappearing. 5% unemployment is nothing to brag about when many are actually working below the poverty line.

Wages are determined by supply and demand, like other prices. If you flood the country with surplus labor willing to work cheap, it pulls down wages. By competition, that lowers the wages for all but those who have valuable skills. By controlling immigration, we can reduce surplus labor and force employers to compete for good employees with higher wages.

 

[Benvolio]

And just so people understand, if they didn't want to be perceived as a racist, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. Then you shouldn't have voted for a racist, misogynist, homophobe, xenophobic, etc.

The problem is that you have allowed name calling to become an integral part of your thinking process, preventing you from actually thinking about social problems. Instead of calling people names, try to think about the social effects of immigration, for instance. Answer these questions: how does massive immigration help the people who are already here? How does it help unemployed black or hispanic people? Your impulse will to call me names. For once, try to think about the questions.

 

[mikey3000]

Wages are determined by supply and demand, like other prices. If you flood the country with surplus labor willing to work cheap, it pulls down wages. By competition, that lowers the wages for all but those who have valuable skills. By controlling immigration, we can reduce surplus labor and force employers to compete for good employees with higher wages.

In the last eight months, I have been to small town America from coast to coast and the decline I saw was very upsetting. Whole towns boarded up, shut down and empty. I was shocked to put it mildly. Los Angeles has neighbourhoods of extreme wealth, but go just a few blocks and you enter extreme poverty. The story is the same everywhere. The prevalent drug problem is visible everywhere. I couldn't believe how far America The Great has fallen.

 

[Kulindahr]

If the US accepts them as refugees, they receive welfare for a period of years, so of course many claim to be refugees and stupid old Uncle Sam lets them get away with it.

Far an alleged lawyer you are amazingly unaware how hard it is to get refugee status. The U.S. is quite good at sending people back to be killed, even sending people "back" to countries they've no memory of.

 

[Kulindahr]

We also regard economic freedom, including low taxation, to be a very important civil rights question. A heavily taxed people are not a free people. "Progressive" taxation and total taxation of inheritance were list by Marx as an element of Communism.

Your record here shows you don't believe in low taxation -- you constantly whine about people who don't have to pay federal income tax. If you believed in low taxation, you'd be thrilled that many people don't have to pay federal income tax and be eager to increase their numbers.

BTW, once again you classify Abraham Lincoln as a communist -- I leave the explanation of why as an exercise in history.

 

[Kulindahr]

You talk about low taxation like you're some high falutin millionaire, which you're not. I highly doubt that you are anywhere near the top tax brackets even if you are a lawyer (doubt that). So please spare us, you are not suffering from taxes.

Besides that, he talks of low taxation as important to freedom when at the moment it is exactly the opposite: reducing federal income taxes at this point is an exercise in tyranny, because all it does is increase the debt and lay that much more of a burden on everyone.

 

[Kulindahr]

Taxation is an extremely poor measure of freedom.

But it's the 'gold standard' to propertarians, who value possessions over people.

And when lowering taxation increases debt, it's the opposite of freedom: debt is slavery.

 

[Benvolio]

In the last eight months, I have been to small town America from coast to coast and the decline I saw was very upsetting. Whole towns boarded up, shut down and empty. I was shocked to put it mildly. Los Angeles has neighbourhoods of extreme wealth, but go just a few blocks and you enter extreme poverty. The story is the same everywhere. The prevalent drug problem is visible everywhere. I couldn't believe how far America The Great has fallen.

A century or so ago farms were small and transportation by horse and wagon. So small towns sprung up to serve them. Since then mechanization has caused farms to grow, with fewer farmers and they can travel further to shop. The demise of small towns has been inevitable and not necessarily bad. Small farms do not work: they do not generate enough income to support a family.
Beyond that poverty is largely caused by immigration and welfare. Hopefully Trump will make some progress against those problems.

 

[Stardreamer]

We also regard economic freedom, including low taxation, to be a very important civil rights question. A heavily taxed people are not a free people. "Progressive" taxation and total taxation of inheritance were list by Marx as an element of Communism.

There are some heavily taxed countries in Europe that would disagree with you. While taxation without proper representation is a civil rights issue, taxes being used to provide the services and needs that the people want is not. And you are not going to reduce the debt and balance the budget on spending cuts alone, not and have a country that resembles what you want. The problem is there are too many on the far right that thinks we can just cut our way out of deficit. The solution is a balanced, logical approach to both revenue and spending.