Idaho Baptists' Accused of Stealing Haitian Children

[White Eagle]

Coming from someone who makes entire threads about how time is running out and we must accept Jesus as soon as possible....I will urge you, as I have others, to try only talking about the issues I bring forth, rather than about me personally, or better still, not say anything, if you can't say anything relevant to the topic.

I have to agree with you. Things there are not at the best of course. But these people have gone into the country and decided to do what they wished without talking to people in charge. The issue of adopting children has been talked about a lot in the past couple of weeks. I saw where anyone had to have written signature of that official. They should have known what to do.
There are people in Idaho with questionable life styles, to say the least. I will give them the benefit of the doubt but down deep I feel they weren't interested in how legal it was.

 

[Kulindahr]

I have to agree with you. Things there are not at the best of course. But these people have gone into the country and decided to do what they wished without talking to people in charge. The issue of adopting children has been talked about a lot in the past couple of weeks. I saw where anyone had to have written signature of that official. They should have known what to do.
There are people in Idaho with questionable life styles, to say the least. I will give them the benefit of the doubt but down deep I feel they weren't interested in how legal it was.

I'd say they believe that since they had permission and approval from the parents, the authorities had no business meddling in the matter.

Morally, they'd be right. Legally....

 

[Ambrocious]

[Text: Removed by Moderator] Also once more, thanks SoulSearcher for bringing up my past again and my foolish post that never came true.

Quite often when a person hates something strong enough, they openly and actively seek to find the weakness in the hated thing so that they may destroy the thing they hate in any way possible. What is lacking in this method is that it ultimately is a cannibalistic way of life because no matter how you look at it, we are still all human and by attacking each other with intent to destroy by moral or status is still a form of self hatred.

I have done some changing since I posted those 'predictions' (posted those when I began to wake up to the reality of whats all happening in the world) and I am seeing the bigger picture. Once a person can get to the place where he hates no one nor attacks anyone but actually loves all life, this person will actually begin to hate the fact that he can do little to help the world.

I have reached a point and am slightly divided in my mind as to what comes next and it is no small thing as to what I will do next and what I will decided to follow next or not follow next. Perhaps I will lead next, not that I would lead with similar teachings as I have learned all from one source but that I will soak in as much knowledge as I can and then go forth and promote anything good that I can.

As for the Baptists that took the kids, this act wasn't al too bad all things considering. Lots of people are dying and homeless and what needs to happen is a lot of people need to get in there and help rebuild everything and bring in lots more food and water and clothing and medicine.

I suppose that everyone has to hate something aside from themselves; it leaves the road of maturity blocked to you and any further progress with a constant consent to place blame and constrains responsibility so that you may find moral excuses to be angry. Be angry first with yourself and all of your personal flaws in which being human has in common with everyone and seek to carefully correct people for the actions that they do and not because of the mere belief in which they hold. If you don't start with yourself in the route of correction, it will be evident by a partisan view of hatred and anger towards anyone unlike yourself.

 

[SoulSearcher]

"God is the one who called us to come here and we just really believed that this was his purpose," said Carla Thompson, another member of the group, which called itself the New Life Children's Refuge.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100201/ts_nm/us_quake_haiti

 

[SoulSearcher]

I'd say they believe that since they had permission and approval from the parents, the authorities had no business meddling in the matter.

Morally, they'd be right. Legally....

Using natural disasters and the poverty of other countries as an opportunity to forward a religious agenda is morally wrong in my book. We obviously have different morals.

 

[Kulindahr]

Using natural disasters and the poverty of other countries as an opportunity to forward a religious agenda is morally wrong in my book. We obviously have different morals.

The decision of the parents overrules your notion.

 

[SoulSearcher]

The decision of the parents overrules your notion.

Again, blackmailing poverty stricken parents who are victims of a natural disaster to forward a religious "god driven" agenda is immoral to me.

 

[Kulindahr]

Now you've shifted your ground.

But what "blackmail"?

 

[Ambrocious]

Again, blackmailing poverty stricken parents who are victims of a natural disaster to forward a religious "god driven" agenda is immoral to me.

Was it a "god driven" agenda or was it an act of salvation and kindness and love? Where you see those baptists as evil people, your obviously NOT seeing the action of saving those kids from death as being the most important thing here. Would they have died if they were left there? Probably a lot sooner than normal. Ultimately what happened was good yet all you see SoulSearcher is the evil Baptist who were trying to twist the minds of the poor children. [Text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[White Eagle]

[Text: Removed by Moderator] Baptist's are Christians. Also once more, thanks SoulSearcher for bringing up my past again and my foolish post that never came true.

Quite often when a person hates something strong enough, they openly and actively seek to find the weakness in the hated thing so that they may destroy the thing they hate in any way possible. What is lacking in this method is that it ultimately is a cannibalistic way of life because no matter how you look at it, we are still all human and by attacking each other with intent to destroy by moral or status is still a form of self hatred.

I have done some changing since I posted those 'predictions' (posted those when I began to wake up to the reality of whats all happening in the world) and I am seeing the bigger picture. Once a person can get to the place where he hates no one nor attacks anyone but actually loves all life, this person will actually begin to hate the fact that he can do little to help the world.

I have reached a point and am slightly divided in my mind as to what comes next and it is no small thing as to what I will do next and what I will decided to follow next or not follow next. Perhaps I will lead next, not that I would lead with similar teachings as I have learned all from one source but that I will soak in as much knowledge as I can and then go forth and promote anything good that I can.

As for the Baptists that took the kids, this act wasn't al too bad all things considering. Lots of people are dying and homeless and what needs to happen is a lot of people need to get in there and help rebuild everything and bring in lots more food and water and clothing and medicine.

I suppose that everyone has to hate something aside from themselves; it leaves the road of maturity blocked to you and any further progress with a constant consent to place blame and constrains responsibility so that you may find moral excuses to be angry. Be angry first with yourself and all of your personal flaws in which being human has in common with everyone and seek to carefully correct people for the actions that they do and not because of the mere belief in which they hold. If you don't start with yourself in the route of correction, it will be evident by a partisan view of hatred and anger towards anyone unlike yourself.

If this came from any other Jubber I might be offended. But I'm not. You don't know me and you cannot make these accusations. My opinion is just that, my opinion. We have read thread after thread of your Alex Jones madness and those we didn't read we just passed up. [Text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[construct]

Using natural disasters and the poverty of other countries as an opportunity to forward a religious agenda is morally wrong in my book. We obviously have different morals.

Jesus used disastrous events to forward a religious agenda. Remember when that tower fell and Jesus commented that unless everyone repented they would all likewise perish. Using disasters, large and small, to advance the cause of Christ goes all the way back to its founder. Is it morally wrong? I don't know, but it's certainly different from my usual reaction--usually something like "Oh, how awful!".

So Jesus and his followers have no qualms whatsoever about drawing parallels between tragic events and the fires of hell. Still, they don't generally run around kidnapping children to save them from said fires. I'm sorry. Thinking about the "morality" of Jesus and his followers hurts my brain.

People kidnapping Haitian children and transporting them across state lines to advance an immoral agenda--hmm. Is "advancing an immoral agenda" the same as "for immoral purposes"? Whatever happened to the Mann Act?

 

[opinterph]

When you take every opportunity to attack christianity and the US, you open yourself up to criticism.

Please be careful to limit your critique to the points of the other member’s presentation with which you may disagree, rather than attacking that member personally.

 

[opinterph]

Some insist that the earthquake was a punishment for the animist and voodoo religions practiced by Haitians, so it is no surprise that missionaries use these natural disasters as opportunities to promote Christianity in whichever way possible.

It's funny how threads on this forum get moderated, but non sequiters like this are allowed to stand. It is as much trolling and baiting as any personal attack could ever be.

The post you quoted references a point of fact:

One-time presidential candidate and evangelist Pat Robertson blamed the earthquake in Haiti on a pact with the devil that the Hatians made while under French colonial rule. [Religion Today]

Given the [arguably outrageous] proposition, the suggested logical consequence is not wholly unreasonable. Perhaps the best way to defeat the statement is to demonstrate conclusively that the proposition bears no relation to the activities of the Americans recently jailed in Haiti.

 

[White Eagle]

It does look like the nine didn't know what was going on. The Leader, Laura Silsby, knew that papers were needed and was told that the mission would be considered child trafficking.
22 of the children have parents. Some of the parents gave them up willingly. It's unclear in this article what the number was of the ones not given up willingly.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35256786/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/

(Their defense attorney is Edwin Coq)

No early release for jailed U.S. missionaries
Judge schedules 3 more days of hearings for 10 accused of kidnapping

--snip--

The lawyer said that at least nine of the Americans — all but the group's leader, Laura Silsby — clearly did not know they lacked the proper papers to remove 33 children from Haiti following the devastating earthquake and they should be immediately released.

--snip--

Coq says Silsby knew she couldn't take the youngsters without proper paperwork. But he characterized the other nine missionaries as innocents caught up in actions they didn't understand.

--snip--

But at least 22 of the children, ranging in age from 2 to 12, have parents. Some of the parents told The Associated Press they gave them up willingly because the missionaries promised the children a better life.

--snip--

Most of the children were from the village of Callebas, where people said they handed the kids over because they couldn't feed or clothe them. Their stories contradicted Silsby's account that the children came from collapsed orphanages or were handed over by distant relatives.

Silsby, also said she believed she had all the necessary documents to take the children. The Dominican consul in Haiti, however, said he warned Silsby her mission would be considered child trafficking if she lacked adoption papers signed by Haitian officials.

Silsby has had other problems. She has been taken to court for nonpayment of salaries to her workers in an online store of some kind. She was involved with buying a house in Idaho to be used as an orphanage and let it be foreclosed.

So it looks like Silsby would be the one in the wrong.

 

[Kulindahr]

 

[JB3]

Again, blackmailing poverty stricken parents who are victims of a natural disaster to forward a religious "god driven" agenda is immoral to me.

Now you're just making shit up. The parents of these children have admitted that they gave the children up willingly because they could not pay for or feed them. No blackmail involved.