Identity

[darian]

It took me a long time to accept that I was sexually attracted to men only: the era in which I grew up, infused me with a perception that homosexuality was unacceptable, if not evil and I detested myself, trying desperately to be "normal" for the longest time.

Whilst I eventually tried to identify as gay, that identity seemed to be predominantly associated with a desire and practice of frequent, often casual, sex with little emotional intimacy, from my observations: it had little relevance to how I actually expressed myself, as someone who needed to develop a connection with a man before I was comfortable having sex; but who had little interest in sex because it was experienced as uncomfortable rather than pleasurable.

In some respects, I have a more female response to sexuality than male, yet I do not feel like a woman trapped in a man's body and I am not overtly effeminate. I can better identify with women having sex to achieve intimacy, rather than being interested in the sex itself and there is a sense of enjoyment in giving someone else pleasure, which is not wholly satisfying because I don't experience my own sexual pleasure.

There does not seem to be an identity I can point to and say "that describes me best, so I can use it as a shortcut to identify to people who I am". Without such a shortcut, identifying as gay usually results in interest from other men who think I am interested in frequent casual sex simply because I am gay. When I explain in more detail who I am, they generally lose interest.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I am still struggling to find an identity I can relate to, that will better help identify me to others and thus attract more compatible individuals. There's also a sense of shame in being who I am as it doesn't measure up to my perception of a true homosexual man.

I think it would have been easier if I was actually born female as then I would have an accepted, (mostly) understood, identity that would be consistent with who I am.

I guess I identify as a unique individual, which is kind of a lonely category to be in, with no sense of belonging or commonality.

This is more about triggering discussion than seeking solutions, but any contributions would be appreciated.

 

[KaraBulut]

Whilst I eventually tried to identify as gay, that identity seemed to be predominantly associated with a desire and practice of frequent, often casual, sex with little emotional intimacy, from my observations: it had little relevance to how I actually expressed myself, as someone who needed to develop a connection with a man before I was comfortable having sex; but who had little interest in sex because it was experienced as uncomfortable rather than pleasurable.

In some respects, I have a more female response to sexuality than male, yet I do not feel like a woman trapped in a man's body and I am not overtly effeminate. I can better identify with women having sex to achieve intimacy, rather than being interested in the sex itself and there is a sense of enjoyment in giving someone else pleasure, which is not wholly satisfying because I don't experience my own sexual pleasure.

You didn't request advice but I will offer this comment.

Millennials have rewritten the sexual orientation and gender terms. Older generations had a Kinsey view of sexuality- with homosexual on one end and heterosexual on the other end with a continuum scale in between. The criticism of Kinsey's approach is that it focused solely upon sexual behavior and not upon sexual attraction or emotional attraction.

Millennials have a rather confusing set of terms for sexual orientation. From what you've described, you would likely be a homoromantic asexual- someone who has a romantic interest in their own gender but little or no interest in sexual activity?

I find these new definitions of sexual orientation confusing and I don't provide this information as if it were fact. But it sounds like you think you're alone in this feeling. The fact that there's a name for what you're feeling would indicate that you are far from alone in your feelings.

 

[EJMichaels]

... that identity seemed to be predominantly associated with a desire and practice of frequent, often casual, sex with little emotional intimacy, from my observations: it had little relevance to how I actually expressed myself, as someone who needed to develop a connection with a man before I was comfortable having sex;

.... I can better identify with women having sex to achieve intimacy, rather than being interested in the sex itself and there is a sense of enjoyment in giving someone else pleasure,

There does not seem to be an identity I can point to and say "that describes me best, so I can use it as a shortcut to identify to people who I am"....

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I am still struggling to find an identity I can relate to, that will better help identify me to others and thus attract more compatible individuals. There's also a sense of shame in being who I am as it doesn't measure up to my perception of a true homosexual man....

This makes a lot of sense. My usual response to the issue of defining "gay" is that there isn't one way to be gay. I think holding onto the idea of a "true homosexual man" will be counterproductive. We're all individuals. Some follow the stereotypes more than others, and the more you differ from the "shortcuts" of common labels, the harder things are, or seem. I've struggled with feeling different and alone, and I made some compromises in my love life.

When I first came out, I was more or less told that being a lesbian meant smoking and liking softball. I wanted neither of those. I eventually found partners at venues where neither of those things happened. For women and later with men, I met almost everyone at some sort of support group or club where we started out with something in common. One relationship started when camping at a women's music festival. (Okay, that was a stereotype, but the woman I met was there to protest being told BDSM was not welcome there.)

Anyway, as we get older, finding compatible friends and lovers becomes more difficult -- I mean for everyone, but especially for those who start out as a minority. How you label yourself might not be the main problem. While it's true that the shortcuts help, another way is to put yourself in situations where people learn about you as an individual -- some sort of organized group or whatever.

Labels are difficult to avoid. They are helpful, as you point out, as shortcuts to communicate something about yourself. They can be a problem when you use them to identify yourself to yourself, but they still have a function. I invested a lot of myself in my lesbian identity. It was important to me in many ways and very difficult to revise when I realized I could be involved with men. That happened because I came out a second time, as kinky. I realized the sex of the person was secondary and after some failed relationships, I believed I was much more likely to find someone compatible if I opened the options to men. Despite being with the same man since 1998, I consider myself a lesbian-leaning bisexual, or something like that. I don't have your problem for two reasons -- that label won't stop me from meeting people since they don't need to be the same, and because I'm not looking for anyone now.

For the record, I've never made much connection between sex and emotion/love/intimacy/whatever, and therefore am more "male" in my approach. I tend to get along with men more than women, although I remain physically/sexually attracted to women primarily.

Thanks for the thoughtful and thought-provoking post. I wish you the best.

 

[darian]

From what you've described, you would likely be a homoromantic asexual- someone who has a romantic interest in their own gender but little or no interest in sexual activity?

Thank you for your interesting comments.

As an almost 60yo, I am certainly familiar with the Kinsey perspective, however it has always troubled me as it focused, as you say, on sexual behaviour and largely ignoring the many other aspects of human behaviour. Whilst I connect with the Kinsey 6 model, it doesn't describe any of the other facets of who I am and thus other gay men naturally assumed I was as interested in casual sex as they were, merely because I identified as gay as the closest matching descriptor (I certainly wasn't straight).

However, I am not really a homoromantic asexual as I have more than a little interest in sexual activity: I quickly become aroused and excited, it's just that its practice is uncomfortable (stimulation is bordering on painful) and whilst I reach ejaculation it's as pleasurable as a sneeze and I don't experience what most men do with an orgasm. Consequently, the practice part is more trouble than it is worth and merely being excited is also inadequate. I am more than pleased to engage in sexual activity if the other person is the focus, and do not want it for myself, but pleasing someone else and not oneself can only take one so far as it's ultimately unfulfilling and envy-provoking and I wish things were different. The medical fraternity are not interested in my dissatisfaction with sex for myself as they seem to have more important fish to fry.

I think our human experiences are all on a spectrum, albeit with mostly binary peaking, so when we reduce it to a few categories, there are often expectations of similarity that are not met in practice (ie by labeling myself gay, I would often receive interest from others who are expecting lots of casual sex as that is what they perceive the label means to themselves) but conversely, expanding it to a more finely detailed set of combinations that is well understood can be problematic (I was not even aware of homoromantic asexual or similar categories) as it still may not describe an individual accurately.

I often find other men want to move too quickly to sex (like at first sight) when I'm still trying to work out whether I even like this person. I prefer to develop a friendship first before sex, even though I might be champing at the bit to get them naked. That does seem contradictory and it has troubled me for a long time. I think I have abandonment issues stemming from being isolated immediately after birth and so I want to ensure there is a connection before opening myself up to the possibility of pain.

I guess it doesn't help in identifying myself to others when I have such a bizarre sociosexual behaviour.

 

[darian]

My usual response to the issue of defining "gay" is that there isn't one way to be gay. I think holding onto the idea of a "true homosexual man" will be counterproductive. We're all individuals. Some follow the stereotypes more than others, and the more you differ from the "shortcuts" of common labels, the harder things are, or seem. I've struggled with feeling different and alone, and I made some compromises in my love life.

Thank you for your informative response.

I do agree that there isn't just one way to be gay, however using such a reductionist label guarantees it is not very descriptive. At best, gay=same sex attracted and says nothing about other sexually related forms of behaviour or interest.

I suspect we need to define a limited range of behavioural descriptors that relate to fundamental characteristics of sexual behaviour, to provide more information than simply sexual orientation (eg emotional and physical dimensions).

The true homosexual man was a projection of what I thought being gay represented: that is a same sex attracted man who wanted lots of casual sex without much connection. I felt ashamed using the label gay for myself, because that is not who I was and I felt like a fraud.

Becoming involved in groups that tend to attract individuals who may be compatible with myself would normally be an option, however I have struggled with being Social Phobic my whole life and such gatherings are very difficult as my anxiety is so high I can't engage. I did however once become involved in a mens group that led to a friendship and then a brief sexual relationship, that at the time was uplifting, until he suddenly and without warning abandoned the sexual relationship to take up with a woman, but expected the friendship to continue as it was. The experience confused me, shattered my confidence and sabotaged further attempts to reach out.

I have been on my own for so long now, I'm not sure I could tolerate a traditional relationship and its demands, but it would be nice to have occasional meetings with a compatible man that involved an ongoing intimate sexual and emotional dimension.

For the most part I identify as a unique individual and that is enough for me, however it doesn't really help in identifying who I am to others. I think part of my brain is wired as female, so I am some form of hybrid. I get on quite well with women, perhaps because I have no sexual interest in them and am not a threat: I get on less well with men as I can't fully identify with their world, yet am exclusively sexually attracted to them.

 

[darian]

I find these new definitions of sexual orientation confusing...

I think they highlight the growing awareness of diversity in human behaviour and the developing sense of rights for all individuals and not simply those who best match prevailing reductive norms.

However, creating a profusion of categories for people to slot themselves into is, in retrospect, counterproductive in that diversity requires an infinity of combinations of fundamental behavioural states to describe an individual and is thus impractical to create and achieve a common understanding. I'm not even sure we have defined the fundamental behavioural states (which would be unrelated to combinatorial states such as "man" or "woman" but more fundamental) in order to form a basis for those combinations.

As we move towards greater equality and inclusiveness, it seems to me that trying to describe ourselves in terms of combinations that will often still be reductive, is futile. The only time we need to describe ourselves is in intimate relationships, as the other person is generally looking for an initial specific match to themselves and this can be most effectively achieved by outlining our physical and behavioural characteristics and those we are looking for in others. Does your boss really need to know you are a male who is sexually attracted to other males? A prospective partner, however, probably would.

Upon further reflection, I am comfortable with my identity as a unique individual of the human species: I do not need to belong to a specific sub-category to feel I have worth. When it comes to intimate relationships, I would describe myself as a (currently) somewhat overweight 59yo caucasian male who is primarily sexually attracted to other caucasian males; who prefers to develop a connection before being comfortable with sex; who likes to pleasure a partner but who has difficulty with their own sexual pleasure; who has health issues that restrict the frequency of engagement; and who is looking for occasional intimate friendship with a compatible other. I guess the fine details could be further worked out with anyone who was interested. Not sure how I would convey that in Millenial definition terms.

My biggest fear, I guess, has been that I would be unable to find someone compatible, as I feel somewhat unique, rather than not having an identity or group to identify with.

 

[Shadowdweller]

"The heart wants what the heart wants" guess what? That's the same for all of us so feel free to join the club : )

Seriously though I'm with EJMichaels when she says that holding onto the idea of there being "a true homosexual man" may not be the best thing to do.
I know there are other men like you, my uncle is for a start and I've known a couple of others. Labels are for parcels not people but if you must have one how's this? 'I'm me'

 

[ass eater]

For me it was always simple, I've known I've been attracted exclusively to the same sex since childhood. I knew I was gay before I even heard the word gay. I never had problems identifying as anything other than I am of black and Italian descent. Growing up I learned you're supposed to act like you are interested in girls, act like you're confused about your sexuality. But this causes you to lash out at innocent people. When I first was introduced to the gay scene, it wasn't any easier. I once again felt I had to act like all other gay men so I started to try and be edgy, going to clubs all the time (don't get me wrong I did like to party), but the extremes of the lifestyle was exhausting. I went back to being my natural boring self. Even though I had two sexual experiences with female, I still knew I was totally gay. I guess the question should be what's the motivation behind your encounters. Peer, and social pressure is a big big factor. Your behavior doesn't always reflect your real true self. Maybe if you're in the adult porn industry lines could be blurred because you are paid to have sex with people sometimes not of your choosing.