Idle No More New Year’s Eve Round Dance at Mall of America

[White Eagle]

just wanted to add this to the above

- The Drums, and Songs is not protest, they are prayer, ceremonial and celebrations. MOA is ignorant.

 

[White Eagle]

I might as well make this thread a "Abuse aimed at the Native Indian Nations across North America."
Here's one aimed at our Lipan Apache Tribe, a recognized Tribe by the State of Texas.
From FaceBook:

Robert Soto
I am asking for prayer. It is a long story and I will keep it very short. But on March 11, 2006, the federal government sent agents to spy on our family Native gathering. That was in the morning. In the afternoon they sent agents and took 42 of our Eagle Feathers. After we settle with the Federal Government, they threaten to visit every pow wow in Texas and take all eagle feathers that were not obtained through the Federal Government. They called the clean up "Operation Texas Powwow." Because I felt our religious rights as Native People had been violated, I filed a law suit against the Department of Interior. That temporally stopped the harassment of our people which has already started in a couple of pow wows. After Seven years of going in and out of Federal Court, on February 21, 2013 we lost our case. Since I promise to take this all the way to the Supreme Court if possible, we appealed the decision by the lower federal courts. Anyway, our lawyers have been summon to District Court in New Orleans Louisiana on January 8, 2014 to hear our plea. Once again, whatever is decided at the district court level will effect all American Indians nationally. So please pray for our lawyers, Milo Colton and Marisa Salazar that God the Creator will give them wisdom as they go before the Federal Government and fight for the rights of all Native people. God bless and thanks for your time and prayers.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Facebook is really buzzing this AM. Another look at the arrest aftermath. MOA Security really stepped in it.

http://idlenomorewisconsin.tumblr.com/post/71970704868/click-for-a-shareable-version-of-this



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTbU0FQfVVU#t=103

Despite all of the political correctness, it is amazing how fast allusions to alcoholism and poverty or welfare/services come up when people get in the least bit annoyed by a Native.

 

[xbuzzerx]

just wanted to add this to the above

- The Drums, and Songs is not protest, they are prayer, ceremonial and celebrations. MOA is ignorant.

Yeah, like I said earlier I still remain bewildered to this day why you can't convince the U.S. of this. Nothing has changed since the 1880s seems like. I've never heard of anything remotely like a Native dance going out of control into property damage or violence unless people attacked them during it, which has certainly happened.

 

[Kulindahr]

I might as well make this thread a "Abuse aimed at the Native Indian Nations across North America."
Here's one aimed at our Lipan Apache Tribe, a recognized Tribe by the State of Texas.
From FaceBook:

WTF???

When I had a friend in Colorado who was a falconer, he told me that the only people who were allowed to collect eagle feathers without government paperwork were native tribes who had traditionally used them for ceremonial purposes. Since then we've seen a law passed to protect religious freedom, but now this? I don't get it.

 

[Kulindahr]

I noticed that a whole string of comments on the news article were supposedly "libertarian" defenses of private property.

Libertarianism holds liberty to be more important than private property. The actions of MoA show that they hold private property as more important than liberty -- they are not libertarian.

 

[xbuzzerx]

WTF???

When I had a friend in Colorado who was a falconer, he told me that the only people who were allowed to collect eagle feathers without government paperwork were native tribes who had traditionally used them for ceremonial purposes. Since then we've seen a law passed to protect religious freedom, but now this? I don't get it.

I know that the Feds reserve the right to limit or restrict this based on EPA recommendations if the species is particularly threatened or the population is getting too low, but it sounds to me in this case like they're simply being bullies about it and in violation of the treaty laws. Although it should be clear that the Feds doing this is utterly nothing new or strange.

 

[bankside]

The ability to own property and dispose of it as one sees fit is clearly an expression of liberty. Holding private property to be more important than liberty, is simply holding liberty to be more important than liberty; that is, a red herring.

 

[Kulindahr]

I know that the Feds reserve the right to limit or restrict this based on EPA recommendations if the species is particularly threatened or the population is getting too low, but it sounds to me in this case like they're simply being bullies about it and in violation of the treaty laws. Although it should be clear that the Feds doing this is utterly nothing new or strange.

I don't know if the tribes in Texas do it, but when I was in Colorado that falconer friend went along with a medicine man and assistant to collect feathers, and he got the job of videotaping to document that they did nothing to disturb the birds and only collected fallen feathers. He kept copies of all the tribe's documentation videos as a backup. His only complaint about the effort was that he wasn't allowed to touch the feathers, except once when he had (in triplicate) certified permission to collect one for a university professor.

 

[Kulindahr]

The ability to own property and dispose of it as one sees fit is clearly an expression of liberty. Holding private property to be more important than liberty, is simply holding liberty to be more important than liberty; that is, a red herring.

I'll forward your name to the Koch Brothers fan club. They and Monsanto will appreciate your support.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I don't know if the tribes in Texas do it, but when I was in Colorado that falconer friend went along with a medicine man and assistant to collect feathers, and he got the job of videotaping to document that they did nothing to disturb the birds and only collected fallen feathers. He kept copies of all the tribe's documentation videos as a backup. His only complaint about the effort was that he wasn't allowed to touch the feathers, except once when he had (in triplicate) certified permission to collect one for a university professor.

Yeah my understanding of most special treaty rights for hunting or collecting is that they are still subject to inspection in many cases by government agencies. I know for example that when tribes harvest salmon from rivers they have to actually stamp the salmon "commercial" or "ceremonial" based on what it's being harvested for, and inspected periodically to examine the numbers being taken for each.

 

[Kulindahr]

Yeah my understanding of most special treaty rights for hunting or collecting is that they are still subject to inspection in many cases by government agencies. I know for example that when tribes harvest salmon from rivers they have to actually stamp the salmon "commercial" or "ceremonial" based on what it's being harvested for, and inspected periodically to examine the numbers being taken for each.

That makes one wonder why the hell federal goons would just charge in like that. The first move, under due process, is to ask for the documentation for those feathers. Some will show them grandfathered in, and the rest should be individually listed. I got the impression that the natives in Colorado engraved an identifier on each quill near the tip.

 

[xbuzzerx]

That makes one wonder why the hell federal goons would just charge in like that. The first move, under due process, is to ask for the documentation for those feathers. Some will show them grandfathered in, and the rest should be individually listed. I got the impression that the natives in Colorado engraved an identifier on each quill near the tip.

I honestly am not past believing it's merely throwing their weight around because they can. Any legal process initiated by tribes turns into a nightmare and takes forever due to the complicated legal status of tribes and the limited jurisdictions of courts to hear cases of tribal-Federal disagreement, and it costs a lot of money, too. It's much like the Feds bursting into CA medical marijuana dispensaries and just ransacking it regardless of documentation. They do it because they can.

 

[bankside]

I'll forward your name to the Koch Brothers fan club. They and Monsanto will appreciate your support.

Thank you for the hyperbole, but I don't think a living organism can be considered ordinary property. A shopping mall certainly can.

 

[White Eagle]

WTF???

When I had a friend in Colorado who was a falconer, he told me that the only people who were allowed to collect eagle feathers without government paperwork were native tribes who had traditionally used them for ceremonial purposes. Since then we've seen a law passed to protect religious freedom, but now this? I don't get it.

I don't think I've heard that. When I was white I heard you had to have Government paperwork. Thanks, something else to research!

 

[xbuzzerx]

I don't think I've heard that. When I was white I heard you had to have Government paperwork. Thanks, something else to research!

That's my understanding as well--- though it may vary from treaty to treaty/state to state.

 

[Kulindahr]

Thank you for the hyperbole, but I don't think a living organism can be considered ordinary property. A shopping mall certainly can.

A shopping mall is considered a public space for many purposes. If the owners can decide what speech is legitimate there and what is not, then we are headed for plutocracy.

Inside a store would be a different matter.

 

[White Eagle]

On Oct 12-2012 Holder signed a new policy. I think the secret about Texas is it has to be a federally recognized Tribe, Lipan Apache is recognized by Texas. Should be an automatic recognition as Texas was a recognized Republic by US.

http://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/public/documents/text/idc-022940.pdf

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't think I've heard that. When I was white I heard you had to have Government paperwork. Thanks, something else to research!

They just had to be for traditional purposes, was all.

I honestly am not past believing it's merely throwing their weight around because they can. Any legal process initiated by tribes turns into a nightmare and takes forever due to the complicated legal status of tribes and the limited jurisdictions of courts to hear cases of tribal-Federal disagreement, and it costs a lot of money, too. It's much like the Feds bursting into CA medical marijuana dispensaries and just ransacking it regardless of documentation. They do it because they can.

The tribe should have its own security; some of those here do. Their security should have arrested the federal agents for trespass, vandalism, and assault, and locked them up. In the meantime, they should sue for infringement of religious freedom -- ask for all of Texas....

 

[xbuzzerx]

The tribe should have its own security; some of those here do. Their security should have arrested the federal agents for trespass, vandalism, and assault, and locked them up. In the meantime, they should sue for infringement of religious freedom -- ask for all of Texas....

In principle I completely agree with you, in practice the reality is they don't have the authority to do it. Almost any grievance from the tribes is relegated through the court system. That's why you have things like a 90% decline to prosecute rate on rapes and similar felonies on reservations, the Feds assign so few resources for law enforcement on reservations and no one really cares; if anything, they blame the lack of good law enforcement on the tribes, even though they have no power to do anything about it, the Feds made sure of that.