if not for Israel's Iron Dome system, the fight would be much worst ??

[Kulindahr]

Don't be so quick to think that. The Jewish synagogues in Los Angeles get vandalized regularly, sometimes several times a year. And plenty of the graffiti isn't Arabic or Muslim in content...

Maybe the reason Christians and Jews don't have open hostility anymore is because after WWII the west just exported them to Palestine? It's a lot easier to get along when you never have to deal with someone next door. That plus shame over WWII but frankly it's naive to think Christians love Jews.

I suspect "The Race", an 'Aryan' neo-Nazi group that holds that Jews should be persecuted wherever they're found.

BTW, there are a lot of Christians who honor Jews as the cousins of Jesus.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I suspect "The Race", an 'Aryan' neo-Nazi group that holds that Jews should be persecuted wherever they're found.

BTW, there are a lot of Christians who honor Jews as the cousins of Jesus.

Probably. I try not to give hate groups too much of my attention, I figured it was probably something like that.

 

[Kulindahr]

I agree that secularism is more responsible for the lack of street violence against Jews in western countries than Christianity is. Not that many people care that much about religion to go out and attack someone of a different one in the west-- general statement of course. We do have our pockets of crazy.

My only point was-- opposing Hamas on the grounds that it's anti-gay is silly as if there are so many different non-Muslim political choices in the Muslim world as alternatives and are pro-gay. Hating them for that is like hating the guy who beat up your mom because he was in an A&F t-shirt and you hate A&F.

Anti-gay is a separate issue that is fairly universal. Few of the world's major religions or religiously political groupings approve of homosexuality.

The most "persecution" of anyone I've seen from Christians was when I was at OSU, and a large group of Campus Crusade for Christ members would cross over and walk on the other side of the street from a mosque.

 

[xbuzzerx]

The most "persecution" of anyone I've seen from Christians was when I was at OSU, and a large group of Campus Crusade for Christ members would cross over and walk on the other side of the street from a mosque.

Ever heard of Cracker Barrel? Chik-Fil-A? Boy Scouts?

 

[Kulindahr]

Probably. I try not to give hate groups too much of my attention, I figured it was probably something like that.

I learned a lot I didn't want to know when a kid I knew ended up in prison and sent all this crap people were giving, to get my opinion. What drives me crazy is they think they're Christian.... even when they issue "edicts" that some other skinhead has to be killed because he was seen being friendly to "niggers" or "Judases" (i.e. Jews).

 

[Kulindahr]

Ever heard of Cracker Barrel? Chik-Fil-A? Boy Scouts?

Never heard of Cracker Barrel, haven't seen anyone turned away from a Chik-Fil-A, and the Scouts aren't Christian.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I learned a lot I didn't want to know when a kid I knew ended up in prison and sent all this crap people were giving, to get my opinion. What drives me crazy is they think they're Christian.... even when they issue "edicts" that some other skinhead has to be killed because he was seen being friendly to "niggers" or "Judases" (i.e. Jews).

And I don't blame the Christian faith as a general set of teachings and beliefs for those groups though yes, they do identify as Christian and say what they're doing is for white Christians or whatever else. But by the same token I recognize that most scholarly imams who don't come from a severe backwoods or weren't handpicked by crazies because they were crazy say that Islam is not a religion that smiles upon killing people whether they drink alcohol or pray to Jesus. Despite the fact that the net is rife with people quoting obscure lines or things out of context from the Qu'ran to say Islam wholeheartedly endorses killing and violence. One of the biggest sites that used to do that finally got called out by a military translator who pointed out that the quotes they had up about cutting off heads and killing the filthy were actually (intentionally) misappropriated from the section on halal and were basically instructions on the Muslim version of the kosher preparation of meat.

So I have a mountain of salt when it comes to people trying to say this religion > that religion because (insert instance of extremists.)

 

[xbuzzerx]

Never heard of Cracker Barrel, haven't seen anyone turned away from a Chik-Fil-A, and the Scouts aren't Christian.

Cracker Barrel fires gay peple on the spot. Chik-Fil-A donates money to 2nd class citizenship efforts (or at least, did, until the hard PR spank.) The Scouts as an organization may not be a "Christian organization" but bucktons of its membership is, and boots gay people.

I don't really see any religion except the ones that sorta stay out of the temporal stuff for the most part like the broader mainstream Buddhist sects as having much claim to a "well WE don't persecute anyone, we're better than those other evil religions that do." Because it's all coming from the same place, fundamentalist interpretations of really friggin old holy books.

 

[JayHawk]

Chick-fil-a is tasty for fast food and the owner is free in the country I live in to donate to whom he wishes... just as I am free to not eat his chicken...

 

[xbuzzerx]

Chick-fil-a is tasty for fast food and the owner is free in the country I live in to donate to whom he wishes... just as I am free to not eat his chicken...

Has nothing to do with why it was brought up.

 

[JayHawk]

Nope nothing at all but it being brought up has nothing at all to do with the conversation... they hire and do not discriminate.... unlike the terrorist in Hamas or even the psychos in the christian church or the Aryan nation....

Just here to help.... the BSA does and I have never seen Cracker Barrell do so but I will take your word for lack of giving a shit about looking it up.... however if I was a homo fired from CB I would fucking destroy them....

 

[maxpowr9]

Cracker Barrel fires gay peple on the spot. Chik-Fil-A donates money to 2nd class citizenship efforts (or at least, did, until the hard PR spank.) The Scouts as an organization may not be a "Christian organization" but bucktons of its membership is, and boots gay people.

I don't really see any religion except the ones that sorta stay out of the temporal stuff for the most part like the broader mainstream Buddhist sects as having much claim to a "well WE don't persecute anyone, we're better than those other evil religions that do." Because it's all coming from the same place, fundamentalist interpretations of really friggin old holy books.

Actually Mormons, not Christianity have a stranglehold on the Boy Scouts. It's pretty much a requirement for Mormon boys to join boy scouts.

Buddhists are not the saints that people make them out to be. Buddhists and Hindus have been fighting each other long before the Christians showed up in India. Not to mention the Buddhist violence against Muslims in Burma too.

 

[JayHawk]

Maxpwr you kinda nail my opinion... religion in general is the base reason so many die and so many more will die. It is sad really when the basic tenant of all religions is peace....

 

[xbuzzerx]

Actually Mormons, not Christianity have a stranglehold on the Boy Scouts. It's pretty much a requirement for Mormon boys to join boy scouts.

Buddhists are not the saints that people make them out to be. Buddhists and Hindus have been fighting each other long before the Christians showed up in India. Not to mention the Buddhist violence against Muslims in Burma too.

I'm not someone who is going out there saying any religion is a paragon of peace and nonviolence in its actual historical presence. Buddhism was extremely bloody, especially the further back you go in history. However Buddhism today in most of Asia is if anything even more secular than the "Christianity" in most of the west, or at least in Europe (the U.S. is slowly getting there) and no one could give a crap what sect you are or if you ever practice, no one knows or cares. (Unless you're SGI in Japan which they regard as like the scary fundie cult version, it is the version of Buddhism which has more followers outside of Asia than in Asia, like Tina Turner is a "big name" convert to it, a very evangelical type of Buddhism.)

My basic point was... anyone who is Christian or defends Christianity but goes out on a limb to talk about the persecutions or social injustices empowered by other religions is really just asking for that position to backfire. And I do not and never really did understand the urge people have to validate their own religion by trying to make some objective presentation about how it's better than another. Christianity has plenty of sins to answer for in history.

 

[maxpowr9]

Sorry to go off-topic but you do realize that Buddhist violence against Muslims in Myanmar is like 5 months old
Myanmar to examine Muslim-Buddhist violence. That is why it was unprecedented that Obama visited the country recently as they try to bring peace between the two sides and transition from a dictatorship to a democracy.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Sorry to go off-topic but you do realize that Buddhist violence against Muslims in Myanmar is like 5 months old
Myanmar to examine Muslim-Buddhist violence. That is why it was unprecedented that Obama visited the country recently as they try to bring peace between the two sides and transition from a dictatorship to a democracy.

Yes, I also realize it doesn't reflect the majority of Buddhism any more than 9/11 or Westboro Baptists reflect all of Islam or Christianity.

 

[TX-Beau]

Are we hating on Buddhists this week? No one sent me the memo.

The Palestinian problem isn't about religion, or at least no JUST about religion - religion is used as a proximate cause but there are a whole lot of things both sides hate each other for that aren't about that.

I suppose if we wanted to be fair, the actual genesis of the present situation was the original partition of Palestine, and the wholesale importation of European Jews whose only claim to Palestine was like a thousand years old. That certainly had nothing to do with Islam, and I can see how the Palestinians might get a little miffed with all these self entitled Europeans walking in like they owned the place because other Europeans turned out to be Jew hating monsters.

 

[TX-Beau]

Does that make someone "right," and someone "wrong?"

Who the hell knows, in that situation you can try to be right, or you can try to find a solution. You CAN'T have both, and that's the reason there will be no solutions - everybody, including here, is trying to be right.

Fuck that, I'm tired of this being a factor in my life.

 

[JayHawk]

Are we hating on Buddhists this week? No one sent me the memo.

The Palestinian problem isn't about religion, or at least no JUST about religion - religion is used as a proximate cause but there are a whole lot of things both sides hate each other for that aren't about that.

I suppose if we wanted to be fair, the actual genesis of the present situation was the original partition of Palestine, and the wholesale importation of European Jews whose only claim to Palestine was like a thousand years old. That certainly had nothing to do with Islam, and I can see how the Palestinians might get a little miffed with all these self entitled Europeans walking in like they owned the place because other Europeans turned out to be Jew hating monsters.

Wars result in changed boundaries... but to the point... the land called Israel was actually Palestine before WWII? or no?

Not trying to be a shit either... i have seen a ton of maps prior to WWII that detail Palestine as a different place with different boundaries...

 

[TX-Beau]

"The formal objective of the League of Nations Mandate system was to administer parts of the defunct Ottoman Empire, which had been in control of the Middle East since the 16th century, "until such time as they are able to stand alone."[5] The mandate document formalised the division of the British protectorates - Palestine, to include a national home for the Jewish people, under direct British rule, and Transjordan, an Emirate governed semi-autonomously from Britain under the rule of the Hashemite family.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_(legal_instrument)

It's all Britain's fault.

BTW I believe that is modern Palestine, Israel, and Jordan, which were all booty from the destruction of the Ottoman Empire.