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"if you disagree with him you disagree with God "

The only difference I see between a cult and a religion is the amount of money and the amount of followers.
 
He blends pop psychology with a semblance of religion and a dash of mysticism with time-proven manipulative methods very effectively. And he conveniently dodges criticism from the Bible by saying right up front that some of it is wrong -- and he knows the truth.

There are a number of places where, Christologically, he could be tripped up, judging from the video material, but they aren't places that his followers are going to listen to, because they've been twisted to see spirituality as emotion at its root. That's a major factor in cults as well, that they link the emotions to the leader and then link belief to the emotions, so there is no room for reason. Pentecostal churches especially, and now many 'evangelical' churches, skirt that line constantly, the only thing holding them back being a commitment, however tenuous, to the historic intellectually rigorous adherence to basic doctrines such as the Trinity. By naming himself Jesus, this guy cuts that foundation away, because the emotion he engenders replaces reason, so there is no foundation except him.

Scary.

BTW, he's clearly a New Age Gnostic, a variant of a heresy combated in several books of the New Testament. Of course, for that he has the reincarnated John the Apostle around to correct misconceptions....
 
FirmaFan said:
The only difference I see between a cult and a religion is the amount of money and the amount of followers.
Click to expand...

You really believe that all religion is based on money?

You should go learn more about 'religion'.
 
zoltanspawn said:
You really believe that all religion is based on money?

You should go learn more about 'religion'.
Click to expand...

I don't believe religion is based on money. I believe that, when compared to what are called "cults", what is called "religion" is usually the wealthier of the two.
 
FirmaFan said:
I don't believe religion is based on money. I believe that, when compared to what are called "cults", what is called "religion" is usually the wealthier of the two.
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Wealthier-ness isn't much of a criticism.

Your reply in post #2 seemed to imply something more substantive. What specifically is it about cults that is wrong?

And does it apply to religion in general?
 
zoltanspawn said:
Wealthier-ness isn't much of a criticism.

Your reply in post #2 seemed to imply something more substantive. What specifically is it about cults that is wrong?

And does it apply to religion in general?
Click to expand...


My first response was to highlight the similarity between religions and cults and to illustrate that the differences are of little significance, like wealth...the wealth part isn't much of a criticism, but that was the point. The criticism comes from the general reaction people have to the label "cult", which I have equated with mainstream religion.

Unsubstantiated claims believed to be fact despite a shear lack of evidence and/or evidence to the contrary is what is wrong with both religion and cults. Cults seem to have a more exclusionary policy, a greater sense of us-vs-them and seem more manipulative, but the vices used are the same - threat of eternal damnation, promise of eternal salvation, etc.
 
Kulindahr said:
Take a close look, and you'll find many churches that are extremely poor, and cults that are very rich.
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My post was not meant to be taken as literally as you are making it, the point was to say that I find little difference between what is a religion and what is a cult.
 
FirmaFan said:
My post was not meant to be taken as literally as you are making it, the point was to say that I find little difference between what is a religion and what is a cult.
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I tend to agree with FirmaFan, that there are no big differences between a cult and a religion.

One might argue that all religions have started as a cult, that some cults slowly grew into a religion, that people of some cults don't consider their particular cult as a religion, that people of other cults definately consider their cult as a religion.

One might also argue that it is impossible to draw very fixed lines between 'movements' which are a cult and 'movements' which are a religion.

On a global scale, people also don't agree about borders between countries, and on the amount of independent countries, and about which countries belong to the list of independent countries and so on.

On a global scale, there is agreement which animals living at this particular moment belong to the species Human = Homo sapiens, and which animals don't belong to the species Human.

And what about 'the church of the flying spaghetti monster or Pastafarianism'? Is this a religion, or a cult, or something else?

Thanks in advance for some replies.
 
FirmaFan said:
Unsubstantiated claims believed to be fact despite a shear lack of evidence and/or evidence to the contrary is what is wrong with both religion and cults. Cults seem to have a more exclusionary policy, a greater sense of us-vs-them and seem more manipulative, but the vices used are the same - threat of eternal damnation, promise of eternal salvation, etc.
Click to expand...

Only some religions make factual claims. Only some religions use the threat of eternal damnation, promise of eternal salvation. These aren't universal qualities of religion.

The true nature of a cult is found in your middle criticisms: exclusion, introversion, manipulation.

When a better case is laid out that religion is by nature exclusionary, introverted and manipulative I'll buy it.
 
zoltanspawn said:
Only some religions make factual claims. Only some religions use the threat of eternal damnation, promise of eternal salvation. These aren't universal qualities of religion.

The true nature of a cult is found in your middle criticisms: exclusion, introversion, manipulation.

When a better case is laid out that religion is by nature exclusionary, introverted and manipulative I'll buy it.
Click to expand...

That seems a sound distinction. Generally a "cult of personality" is held to be a mark of a cult as well.
 
FirmaFan said:
I guess that would depend on what religion you are talking about.
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Yes, absolutely. A broader understanding of the spectrum of religious thought and expression makes our notion of religion better. It also sharpens critiques of religions' faults.
 
Telstra said:
Is Culture a cult ? :)
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Paul Tillich argued that religion is the substance of culture, and culture the expression of religion.

So, maybe a cult is the substance of pop culture? :)
 
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