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I'm I the only one???

Yes well I guess we agree again as well. I also would hope that this happens a lot less in 2009. That was the one thing that I did notice about most of the guys in my situation, we were all around the same age and grew up in the 70's and 80's.
 
Sixthson, excellent points, particularly concerning how children observe and recall much of what their parents do and say. I think its also likely that a boy who learns that his father is gay wll automatically question his own sexuality, and question the meaning of marriage when his own father violates the sacred oath.

I am offended by old men trying to justify their behavior because of the times they lived in. They are the reason gay rights are not further advanced. They were cowards, afraid to challenge the status quo. It is equally offensive when they pat a coward and liar of this generation on the back for following their cowardly path. That is pure bullshit. I don't respect these people and certainly don't consider them role models.
 
And what makes you such a great role model??? I am not seeking or want your respect. I lived my life they way I saw fit, and I have no regrets. I and can assure you that I am no coward or a liar for that matter.

What I can assure you is that I love my children and they love me and I am a great dad.
 
This is probably not exactly true. Children most likely pay the greatest price of all. Any divorce is most difficult for children because it is hard for them to understand how the two people they love most can stop loving each other.

The implication in my original statement was not that the end of a straight marriage with a gay husband/wife was less painful than a conventional divorce. The point was that it is no more or less painful. Divorce is no fun for anyone.

The issue in divorce is not so much love between the parents as much as it is the child's love for both parents. When divorce turns ugly and one or both parents are battling, it places a child in a very difficult position of having to chose between two people- both of whom they love.

It's the stability of the family, the child's daily life and the acrimony that sometimes develops during the divorce process that determines whether a bad situation becomes an awful situation.

Children are very resilient. Unfortunately, the parents often are so busy and stressed battling with the spouse that the children get lost in the mix.



I am offended by old men trying to justify their behavior because of the times they lived in. They are the reason gay rights are not further advanced. They were cowards, afraid to challenge the status quo. It is equally offensive when they pat a coward and liar of this generation on the back for following their cowardly path. That is pure bullshit. I don't respect these people and certainly don't consider them role models.

When I was in my teens and twenties, I got to see a glimpse of what it was like for gay people who grew up in the pre-Stonewall era.

In those days, there was no such thing as "gay rights". or "equality". The term generally used was "homosexual rights" . The term "homosexual" was the polite term - "homos", "fags", "dykes" or the great general category of "degenerates"was more commonly used.

When most people thought of a homosexual person, they pictured a lecherous pervert hanging out in the schoolyard waiting to molest children. It's no surprise that the average gay person couldn't identify with the "perverts" that society represented as being a "homosexual".

The police often raided gay bars and arrested the patrons.

Employers occasionally hired private detectives to go to the bars and write down license plate numbers. On Monday, employees would be fired if their car was one of those in the parking lot of the gay bar over the weekend.

In these days when our biggest battle is whether gays can marry or serve in the military, it's very easy to forget- while we're watching Queer as Folk, or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy or Project Runway- that life for a homosexual wasn't a whole lot of fun until very recently.

And to call anyone a "coward" who survived those days with their dignity and self-worth intact- well, it just shows that you need to actually talk to some of the people in their fifities,sixties and seventies who lived through those times.
 
"In these days when our biggest battle is whether gays can marry or serve in the military, it's very easy to forget- while we're watching Queer as Folk, or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy or Project Runway- that life for a homosexual wasn't a whole lot of fun until very recently."

We obviously don't live on the same planet. Here on earth, homosexuals are beaten and killed with golf clubs in Canada, hanged in Iran, imprisoned in China, Senegal and Tanzania, and fired from their jobs in the US.

I am glad your planet has bought into the ideal presented by silly television shows, but on earth we know its not "reality." The only thing I guess I know now is that when our two civilizations meet, I know who is getting the pretty beads in exchange for land.
 
I would like to point out that, in my own case, I did not marry someone to decieve anyone. I married someone that I loved and wanted to make a family with. My concept of homo sexuals was so negative that it was evident that I could not be one. I didn't fully understand what my attraction to men was all about, but what I knew for sure was that men marry women, make a home, and then begin raising children. That was what my family, my church and, wait for it, Society! told me was our (men's) mission. But having brought a child into the world, and finding my marriage falling apart, and questioning very intimate things about my relationship and myself and my sexuality, I found myself to be a father who had come to the realization that he was both gay and divorced, none of which I wanted or worked for. I don't think I'm wrong to say most gay fathers fall in to the same exact category and "realization" that I do. No one started out trying to trick some sweet, unsuspecting heterosexual woman at all. But if you grow at all through your life, you learn to accept and to incorporate change, and in my case it meant that A) my marriage was not going to survive, btw, for reasons that really didn't have a lot to do with sex, and B) I could take the time to learn just who I was sexually and emotionally after the divorce, and incorporate that new knowledge into my new life. That led to my coming out. And it never left me off the hook as far as being a father, either.
I also feel sympathy for women who's husbands "come out", but that is a long way from blaming the men who grow into their sexuality and are honestly trying to live their lives.
 
Beautifully stated.

The purpose of any social movement, be it women's rights, civil rights, or workers' rights, is to change or correct societal and legal norms so that people can live regular lives. A thought just occured to me that helps explain why gay rights lag behind. I'll put it as a question.

What group in the gay community was enjoying the maximum rights in society and would have suffered immensely had they come out of the closet and led a gay right's movement in the early 20th century?
 
What group in the gay community was enjoying the maximum rights in society and would have suffered immensely had they come out of the closet and led a gay right's movement in the early 20th century?

The only "gay community" that I'm aware of from the 1920s into the early 1930s was the homosexual, libertine community in pre-war Berlin. It's the community chronicled in Christopher Isherwood's Berlin Stories and the musical "Cabaret".

In 1933-1934, the Nazi party began cracking down homosexual conduct and homosexual gathering places. This led to the Nacht Der Langen Messer when homosexuals in leadership positions were purged from the Nazi Party.

In 1935, Parapraph 175 of the German Criminal Code was expanded. After this, many homosexuals either left the country, went into hiding or were sent to concentration camps where they were literally worked to death.
 
Well guys, somehow this thread has turned from a guy who was looking for a little support and advice as to deal with his situation into a full on history and politcal debate.

This is the place for neither, so before we turn on a member of our own community and derail his thread looking for hope and the best way to correct his mistakes of the past to build a future for his kids, lets get this back on topic.

Thanks.

TG

offtopic:
 
I would like to point out that, in my own case, I did not marry someone to decieve anyone. I married someone that I loved and wanted to make a family with. My concept of homo sexuals was so negative that it was evident that I could not be one. I didn't fully understand what my attraction to men was all about, but what I knew for sure was that men marry women, make a home, and then begin raising children. That was what my family, my church and, wait for it, Society! told me was our (men's) mission. But having brought a child into the world, and finding my marriage falling apart, and questioning very intimate things about my relationship and myself and my sexuality, I found myself to be a father who had come to the realization that he was both gay and divorced, none of which I wanted or worked for. I don't think I'm wrong to say most gay fathers fall in to the same exact category and "realization" that I do. No one started out trying to trick some sweet, unsuspecting heterosexual woman at all. But if you grow at all through your life, you learn to accept and to incorporate change, and in my case it meant that A) my marriage was not going to survive, btw, for reasons that really didn't have a lot to do with sex, and B) I could take the time to learn just who I was sexually and emotionally after the divorce, and incorporate that new knowledge into my new life. That led to my coming out. And it never left me off the hook as far as being a father, either.
I also feel sympathy for women who's husbands "come out", but that is a long way from blaming the men who grow into their sexuality and are honestly trying to live their lives.

I think you sum up a lot of men's experiences beautifully. It is such a prevailing theme, in fact, that I think any of the gay fathers I know who have come out and made changes could have written this.
 
Hi,

I am now out, told everyone close to me and I mean everyone. It was surprisingly easy coming out!!
Yeah there is going to be sh*t said at work and quite frankly I aren’t bothered, as at least I know who I am.
Btw to answer one question about my kids, you can't really tell a 6 month and 1 1/2 year old you’re gay. Unless you can talk baby talk lol. As they grow up they will get to know as soon as they can understand.
Why does the world look so different now??? I feel I now belong, you could say at one with the world..
 
^ You can make it into a natural situation for your kids, though. They're too young now to understand interpersonal relationships, but when they do, it's already an established fact that their father's gay. They can see it as normal.

Cheers,
a young 'un with limited experience with gay dads who applauds your bravery* :=D:
 
Yeah I'm still around and my life still continues.
I'm sure my kids will understand as we are very close and very loving.
Everything seems to be going at such at fast pace now, as more of my friends are finding out about me, which is good as I can introduce them to my bf and we can go out drinking and stuff.
I really hope that the comments written above help someone who is thinking or going through the same thing as me.
I may be lucky in having an understanding family and friends, but I didn't know I had these people until I came out.
 
"Grew into my sexuality" I like that line. May I borrow it?

For I am a guy who fought to the bitter end to stop the divorce. When that failed I decided to move on with my life, and dated and nearly married a woman who had a son of her own. But something was wrong, so I ended not only the relationship but all social avenues as well. My kids were priority, but after I dropped them off I sat and pondered: "What was wrong?"

And then there was JUB. And some good advice. I tried it, I liked it.

Today my teenage kids are fine with gay dad and his partner. Gay dad's partner and the kids' mother get along a hell of a lot better than the kids mother and the "woman I nearly married" ever did.

The kids don't care at all. They are happy to talk about the many sports they play, driving lessons and know that dad is a pushover when it comes to filling the gas tank. They invite friends over dads because he lives near NYC and they can take mass transit in. My daughter told me that some of her friends are gay, that it simply doesn't matter. My gaydar is horrible - there is no way I can figure "who is, and who isn't"

I call my kids the children of the "Gay 90's" - born during an age of acceptance. The 60's sure weren't!
 
Wow...after reading the last half of this thread, I'm almost afraid to post! Oh well....

I, too, am a gay dad -- two kids and two step kids. Of the step kids, my former step daughter will say hello if she sees me; my former step-son remains close and comes to visit whenever the other kids do and had joined me for dinner when I was in Iowa recently.

I knew I was gay when I was 12....I had a relationship with my brother-in-law's nephew until we were both going to college and we decided we were "straight." There's a lot more to that part of the story but let's just say I cried when I saw Brokeback Mountain!

I met my ex-wife through friends who thought we would be perfect together. I was in law enforcement and she worked as a civilian in a State Law Enforcement office. I was trying my best to be "straight" because I thought I could convert -- like it was a switch that could be turned on and off. Church and religion convinced me that I could be "cured" of the gay feelings I had and also instilled in me a horrible guilt with which I was saddled. It got to the point of hoping I would die or killing myself; and I stumbled onto JUB.

In talking to people here, I realized there were others who struggled as did I. My ex-wife and I had pretty much been living separate for three years (me downstairs and she upstairs in the same house, coming together for events). I was always close to my own son and daughter who were 17 and 15. I had been trying to stay in the house until they graduated.

I went to Chicago for a weekend to see the gay scene and try to wrestle with the feelings I was having. It was a great weekend and enjoyed every minute of it. I finally said three words, "I am gay" and could not believe how free I suddenly felt.

I came home and was trying to decide what next when a job offer came out of the blue -- in Washington, DC. I told my kids who told me to take it. They knew we were heading for divorce; it was no secret to them. I took the job and over the next year came out to my son and daughter who both accepted me totally (my son plays in the gay football league with me and has gone to gay parties with me and his girlfriend along with my boyfriend; so has my daughter and her boyfriend along with my former step-son). The ex knows I am gay -- thanks to rumors and Facebook. She didn't believe when I said I was gay; I guess she is now thinking it is a phase and if she keeps praying, I'll someday come back to her!

My kids and their future spouses love coming to visit and my ex has put more and more distance between them and her. My step-son told his mother he views her as dead but has remained close with his siblings and me. Even my ex step-daughter recently told her mother off ... I highly doubt I'll see her anytime soon.

When I hear people judge for how I came to where I am and the relationship I had -- know you never walked in my shoes or faced the challenges I faced. I thought I could fall (and did) in love and I also realized when it was over. It happens regularly in the gay world -- all too easily I migh add. I am not ashamed of who I am or what I am nor what I have done -- it has made me the person I am today. For those that cannot accept it -- too bad; it's your loss.
 
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