I'm Latin, not Hispanic

[StationToStation]

Wow, you'd consider it a deal-breaker if a guy referred to himself as "Hispanic" instead of "Latino"?? Sounds so trivial.

no deal breaker, it's my issue of the term. if a guy is hot like this one i'm emailing he can call himself anything he wants

 

[saymyname]

I'm no expert myself, but Latin is an Italic language originally spoken in Latium and Ancient Rome. With the Roman conquest, Latin was spread to countries around the Mediterranean, including a large part of Europe. Romance languages such as Aragonese, Corsican, Catalan, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, Sardinian, and Spanish are all descended from Latin, hence Latino. I know that the cultures of many of these regions have evolved on their own, but they all still share a common heritage. That's how it was always explained to me anyway, but then again I'm only a quarter Latino and more German White Anglo-Saxon.

But, then again, I think you're emphasizing more cultural heritage than language.

"Descended from Latin, hence Latino"

this is the point I'm making... Latin ≠ the same connotation as Latino.

Elvin, care to emphasize?

 

[kallipolis]

Such diversity of opinion. A human trait. There lies the commonly shared gene.

 

[kallipolis]

An Irish girl, called Colleen, met an American man who proposed marriage to her.

The American declared that he was 1/8 Cherokee, 1/8 Spanish, 1/8 Portuguese, 1/8 German, 1/8 Italian, 1/8 Norwegian, 1/8 Dutch and 1/8 Scottish.

Colleen after much reflection decided not to accept the marriage proposal, fearing that her future husband's, many relations would make language and cultural differences too much of a burden to bear.

The American spoke 'Merrycann that had already contributed to Colleen's communication difficulties.

 

[Críostóir]

It's complicated, and different groups of people descended from Spanish-speaking ancestors have different preferences. It doesn't come up that often for me, but when it does I make a guess, let the person correct me if they have a different preference, and call them whatever they prefer for the duration of the discussion, which for me is almost always about racial politics (I don't usually ask guys who I'm going to fuck...hot is hot and I don't care if they're Hispanic, Latino, or Etruscan once I've decided to fuck them).

I'm no expert myself, but Latin is an Italic language originally spoken in Latium and Ancient Rome. With the Roman conquest, Latin was spread to countries around the Mediterranean, including a large part of Europe. Romance languages such as Aragonese, Corsican, Catalan, French, Italian, Portuguese, Romanian, Sardinian, and Spanish are all descended from Latin, hence Latino. I know that the cultures of many of these regions have evolved on their own, but they all still share a common heritage. That's how it was always explained to me anyway, but then again I'm only a quarter Latino and more German White Anglo-Saxon.

Still, no one would call a Frenchman, an Italian, or a Romanian "Latino." It's about Latin American descent, not speaking a language descended from Latin. Spanish-speaking people of Caribbean origin aren't "Latino" by that standard.

the english language, as we know it, didn't come into existence until the 13th century and it was written down by church clerics that were trying to recreate the english sounds using the latin alphabet.

Well...depends on what you count. English kind of began in the late 11th Century, but English as we know it is more like an 18th Century thing. If William Shakespeare spoke to you in his native language and accent you wouldn't understand a WORD (yeah, 'loved' and 'proved' really did rhyme back then).

 

[SimonSays]

Rather or not Latino is the most accurate term that could be used, it has become to mean a person of Spanish Speaking decent from Central or South America. Language morphs and changes over time and takes different meanings.

And, Spain does not necessarily have a unified or homogeneous culture or language. Latino is as close as a Universal Term as it comes.

It is much like the morphing from Negro to Black to African-American. At the end of the day we are all human, and that should be the key.

Nevertheless, because the USA is a Nation founded by immigrants and has such a short span of history in the scheme of things there is a bit of an obsession with tracing ancestry and legacy.

And, with the USA becoming more multi-racial a new group of identifiers will come into being. Blatino is becoming more prevalent, Black Indian, and any number of other words that are becoming coined. It is the nature of things.

 

[bankside]

Ultimately this is the sort of question that I hate just making up the answer to myself. I'd at least like to start somewhere with someone's research.

Here's just one paper I haven't read yet:
ETHNIC CLASSIFICATION IN GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE: A CROSS-NATIONAL SURVEY OF THE 2000 CENSUS ROUND

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/sconcerns/popchar/Morning.pdf

 

[SimonSays]

bankside,

Ethnicity and Race is subjective and varies from Culture to Culture and from time period to time period and there is no definitive, objective, or scientific answer to it.

It is like Nationality. It is fluid across time and space. It is a factor to create unity, history, etc. And, at times can be something used to be decisive and create an enemy.

But, because Racial/ Ethnic Identity is so subjective, all answers are essentially made up.

 

[bankside]

bankside,

Ethnicity and Race is subjective and varies from Culture to Culture and from time period to time period and there is no definitive, objective, or scientific answer to it.

It is like Nationality. It is fluid across time and space. It is a factor to create unity, history, etc. And, at times can be something used to be decisive and create an enemy.

But, because Racial/ Ethnic Identity is so subjective, all answers are essentially made up.

Yes, but we could approach a consensus on it with enough effort. I'm not sure it is worth the effort, but it is interesting to see that some researchers have tried to at least gather all of those perspectives for consideration.

Nationality though has had a fairly well-defined meaning since 1648 and the Peace of Westphalia.

 

[Críostóir]

I never said that!

If you had read all my posts you'd know that I was just questioning the the full extent of saymyname's comment, "The Italian and French are not "Latin" - Latin was a language." I agree, he is correct in one sense, but that he's not correct in the whole sense. I understand that all these countries evolved separately after the fall of the Roman Empire and have their own identity and that includes Latinos. The fact is Latin was not always just a language. I personally believe there is a historical relevance here, that's all I'm saying. You can take it or leave it, it just an opinion! Would you say most of Latin America is Roman Catholic? If so, the official language of Vatican City is Latin and the church has influenced much of Latin America! History, culture, and language all play a significant part.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I didn't say you did say that. I wasn't accusing you of anything, honest!

 

[Beachguyj]

As for me? I am American of hispanic descent and consider myself "caucasian" because I do not look black or Asian.
I think the census is a mess and it should just have 4 options:

Black
White
Asian
Other (please explain)

Maybe you should consider yourself Caucasian because you are white, not because you don't look black or Asian.

Hispanic/Latinos come in all colors. White, black or mulatto. Some white Hispanics are olive skinned and look Italian (see Scarface) some white Hispanics are lily white with blonde hair and blue eyes.

 

[Red Storm]

Correct. I have blond/blue eyed cousins. But that's not the issue here. The issue is wether people descendant from Spain or Spanish speaking countries should be considered or called Latin.

I see Robertac's point to a degree. He has Italian blood. But Italians, French, Spanish don't consider themselves Latin in census. I mean yes, it's a language. The Moors also had control of Spain (like the Romans) and yet Spain is still Spanish.

In my opinion, if you are of Italian descent, you are considered Italian. Not Latin. Like I said, Italians and French check "white or caucasian". Not Latin.

Same goes to Romanians, they don't consider themselves latin either but caucasian.

 

[Marco Sensual]

Im Canadian with Italian background.Some people call me latin.Even if latin is a language.

 

[Críostóir]

Same goes to Romanians, they don't consider themselves latin either but caucasian.

That's because being Latino or Hispanic has to do with being descended from indigenous people in the Western Hemisphere who were conquered by the Spaniards, rather than with speaking a language descended from Latin.

The Spaniards came to our unfortunate hemisphere and spread European diseases (apparently unintentionally, from the best information I have), thus dramatically reducing the population (estimates range up to 90% reduction in native populations). They then enslaved all the peoples who could be enslaved, and systematically exterminated the rest (the indigenous population of Haiti, for example, is completely gone--and don't be fooled by the fact that the French were later just as brutal to the African slaves they brought there; it was the Spanish who did that).

Just to be fair, every European country with any colonial history has its episodes of systematic brutality--Belgium was unbelievably monstrous in Africa, and England about the same practically everywhere. But Spain was the main scourge of South and Central America, and most of the Caribbean.

This is why I occasionally have fantasies about going back in time and arming the Mayas and Aztecs with automatic weapons, or going back a little farther and just giving them the wheel. Just sinking the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria would have helped a lot. Imagine immigrants into Arizona who speak Nahuatl instead of Spanish! Imagine immigrants into Arizona who speak English, and who have to learn Dine to get by.

Ahh, what a nice world.

 

[Críostóir]

Im Canadian with Italian background.Some people call me latin.Even if latin is a language.

They're wrong though. You're no more Latin than I am.

 

[Críostóir]

LOL, I don't know about automatic weapons, but I've had similar thoughts. I always think about all the Maya codices that were destroyed by the Spanish missionaries and what a terrible loss that must of been our understanding of Mesoamerican history.

I know. It's a horrible tragedy. Not that the death of 90% of the population of the Americas doesn't dwarf it! And the Mayas weren't exactly nice people either (they had a tendency to eat their neighbors IIRC).

You know, keeping the Christians from taking over Spain might be a better point of historical intervention. The Moors were pretty liberal (certainly treated the Jews better than Ferdinand and Isabella) by the standards of the time. And today we'd have an Islamic country in Western Europe, which might have prevented the Crusades, and derailed the whole centuries long history of bad blood between Islam and Christendom, with each side capping the atrocities of the other, and leading to the current horrific situation.

Ah, I'm dreaming. People would have found SOME reason to murder each other. And who's to say the Moors might not have tried conquering America too? Wow: imagine a Muslim-dominated but still Spanish-speaking South America. The mind boggles.

Still, you're right. Christianity was the big destroyer of art and history at that time, just as it was earlier when Christians burned Sappho's poems and closed the Pagan academies in Greece. OTOH it was Christian monks who preserved knowledge in Ireland during the darkest part of the Dark Ages. No bag is unmixed, I guess.

 

[SimonSays]

What an interesting thought? Spain never becoming a Catholic Country and remaining Muslim. Now, if it were to Remain Muslim would they have made it to the New World in the Alternate Time Line, and would Central, South America, Florida, the Caribbean, and the North American South West be Muslim, or would you still destroy Columbus' Ships, I would actually enjoy reading a book on it either way. (My apologies I am an alternate history fan). Excellent thoughts though.)

Consensus wise I think we have to realize that Latino is a great umbrella term, and then various national identifiers Mexican, Cost Rican, etc.

I guess for me it would be something like a US American Latino- Hispano. But, anyhow.

 

[Críostóir]

What an interesting thought? Spain never becoming a Catholic Country and remaining Muslim. Now, if it were to Remain Muslim would they have made it to the New World in the Alternate Time Line, and would Central, South America, Florida, the Caribbean, and the North American South West be Muslim, or would you still destroy Columbus' Ships, I would actually enjoy reading a book on it either way. (My apologies I am an alternate history fan). Excellent thoughts though.)

Actually if I had a time machine I would rescue Jesus from the Romans, and prevent the development of CHRISTIANITY, never mind Islam!

Or maybe I'd just counsel Saul of Tarsus on emotional hygiene, so he wouldn't have that debilitating stroke on the road to Damascus and become Paul. We'd have a much better world if Christianity had more of Jesus' ideas in it, instead of mostly Paul's as we have in our ridiculous timeline.

Or make sure the Gospel of Judas was included in the Bible. Or that the Revelation of St. John of the Hallucinogenic Mushrooms was left out.

Gosh, it's hard to even pick just one good point of intervention! Keeping Egypt from being conquered by the Arabs (or earlier, Christianized, or even earlier Hellenized) would be good too. But keeping Europeans out of the Western Hemisphere for an extra couple of hundred years (especially if you also introduce the wheel to Mesoamerica) would make a HUGE difference. Imagine Europeans running businesses to cater to wealthy Aztec tourists!

 

[Jack Springer]

Why not just be an American?

 

[LilBit]

Why not just be an American?

Being Latino/Hispanic and being American aren't mutually exclusive. Nor is being black and American or being white and American. Or being a man and American. Or being left-handed and American.