im out

[jockboy01]

hang in there, sounds like you are doing fine. One comment, not to defend your parents in any way, but my relationship with the 'rents has never been that great (and I've never told them that I'm gay) and once my dad and I were having a reasonable discussion about this and he said something that I'll never forget b/c it gave me a bit of a new perspective....

He said.... "You know, children don't come with instructions. Nobody ever tells you how to be a parent. It is just kind of a learn on the fly type of process and we do the best that we can."

I'd never thought about it that way... but really, it's quite true. And I think that based on your mom's last email they do in fact love you. They just aren't dealing with this the best way, but it's the best way they know how. So we can criticize they're handling it, but I think they are trying in the way they know. I second the book about having a gay son idea. Based on that email, I think they'd read it.

And about the religion... that sucks. I thought if Catholics acknowledged the scientific evidence for the inherent nature of homosexuality, everybody would. Guess I was wrong.

 

[jockboy01]

Well, not to hijack the thread a bit. But Catholics accept the inherent nature of homosexuality. They just are against homosexual acts.

Summary: It's okay to be homosexual, but not okay to act on it.

Sounds like this religion says it's not okay to be homosexual.

P.S. In the future, I'm using gay and homosexual interchangably b/c gay is a lot shorter to type.

 

[3nipples]

"We're not perfect parents, there are no perfect parents, there are no
perfect children either. We're not perfect but we tried to do our best."

Many parents' first reaction is to worry that they are somehow to blame. They need to hear that it isn't their fault. (It also makes them a bit more susceptible to the argument that it isn't a choice).

 

[Roland00]

Not meaning to hijack and make this a religion discussion.

But Catholic official doctrine recongize that homosexuality is innert in at least some people. (They don't recongize it for all people) They just have a problem with homosexual acts. There are 3 official statements that deal heavily with homosexuality.

The 1975 Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics, (Everything from homosexuality to masturbation). In this document they recongize some people's homosexuality is inert and homosexuals should be treated with respect. Homosexual acts are still grave sins though.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

In 1986 the Church clarified its position with the The Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons. The previous document said you should treat homosexuals with respect for its innate, but homosexuals acts are still a sin. This document "clarified" the position, and mostly talks about homosexual acts are always wrong and immoral, and thus special focus should be given to make sure you don't step off the path of rightenous. Homosexuality orientation is innate, and because its innate it makes the temptation even stronger Also homosexuals "had it comming" when violence is performed against them by introducing civil legislation creating equality

Note this document was authored by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the current man who is serving as pope.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...faith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendancies in the View of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders. (2005) This document concerns whether its okay for a homosexual to be a priest. Short answer nope if you been a homosexual within the last 3 years you can't be a priest. This is because the deep seated tendancies of homosexuality make it incompatiable with a role of a priest. You can't possible understand and counsel men and women if you are a homosexual and that is one of the innate duties of a priest.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html




Sigh, religion it can be so screwed up at times and unfortunately it affects everybody's lives.

End Hijack

 

[douseiai]

i understand no parents are perfect... i don't want them to be... the thing is my parents don't understand that they had very little to do with my becoming gay... they don't seem to get that its not their fault even after i tell them... *shrug*

 

[jockboy01]

i understand no parents are perfect... i don't want them to be... the thing is my parents don't understand that they had very little to do with my becoming gay... they don't seem to get that its not their fault even after i tell them...

Huh, that's what it says happens a lot on the pflag website. I'd never thought of it that way until I read it there. Great site. Can't remember how it says to help them get past it.

P.S. Good synopsis on catholic teaching roman. All very accurate... and while a lot I don't agree with, at least they don't contradict science.

 

[douseiai]

ok first off yes i know this isn't a big update or anything i just kinda have to say it... and i don't wanna put it on my LJ cause my former friends have no sympathy for me... so i'm just gonna put it here cause i just kinda need to say it...

ok we move in on friday we at least get the entire weekend to move... i really like the new apartment its got a bigger... everything... we figured rent is gonna be about $340 a month then after utilities maybe $450... which means that i need to get more work in... which is cool since i am getting hired by a blockbuster 5 minutes away and theres a sub shop down the road that may higher me too... so $6.50 at both places and tips from the sub shop will do well enough to get my rent in... so that'l be fun... workin 2 part time jobs... unless the sub shop wants full time in which case that works for me...
i got quoted for car insurange... $2,277 dollars a year... which is $189 dollars a month... which is $100 more then i was paying... and is just all around insane for someone with my driving perfect driving record...
oh and we finished my resume so i may get an office job instead of the sub shop...
so aside the big news which i will say last thats it on financial front...

social... last saturday i went to my first frat party... it was my sisters friends 21st birthday so i went along since he for whatever reason wanted to meet me... *shrug* it was a lot of fun though... i was greatly amused by drunk peopels antics... as expected nobody talked to me and i just kinda followed my sister around...

family front... bum buh bummmm...

my parents have not talked to me since the last posted emails... however... my former youth minister emailed me askin how it was goin... nothin to personal just seein how i was doin and all... so i told him...
and yesterday one of the elders of my former congregation called me and asked me questions to which i answered at least 75% honestly... let me tell you something funny about this elder... first off he is new... maybe been an elder for 3 monthes... and he was one of 2 that came to speak to me before i left california... this man i do not like... and since he hasn't been an elder for very long i have not had a chance to really get a relationship with him that i had with the others... this man i littlerally giggled when he was talking to me in california... he sat on my couch and was talking to me about pleasures and how men were givin a way to sate our thirst and he literally made the hand motion which is why i giggled... anyways so i talked to him... he asked if i found a congregation i said not yet cause i'm working on settling finances first so i can... you know... live out here... so his conversation went pleasant enough...

ok so i was talking to my sister last night and well... we were talking about my night with parents and how they had mentioned telling my grandparents... she gasped and i asked why... well basically its because i am apparently a trust fund baby... i don't really want to go into details but i really don't want my grandparents to know now... so theres been this big whole family cover up which kinda makes sense of what my dad said when he was talking about "i don't know what i would me loseing" so that has kept me up half the night just with the thought of that... so yeah... meh...

nothin else really knew i just kinda had to say that all sort of get it off my chest *shrug*

 

[Riverrick]

The stuff about the trust fund is kind of disgusting. Sigh! It would be like being disinherited, huh?

One thing I've noticed about you, douseiai, is that you are psychologically waaaaay out of the closet already. Your posts read like you're an old hand at being gay; your comfort level with yourself seems really high. So no matter what the enemy troops muster, I just can't see how it would ever accomplish their goal, to make you a nice straight boy.

All I can see it causing is a lot of mental anguish and that just pisses me off.

 

[douseiai]

thats what my parents seem to be good at... actually one thing when my dad saying that i wouldn't know what i would be loseing my response is "well if i don't know about it how can it affect my decision?"

yes i am out of the closet... keep in mind i have be somewhat... i guess wrestling... with this for about 5 years... i decided when i was 18 that it was the only logical path and have not really turned back since...

 

[douseiai]

lol... ok my parents actually sent my stuff! and so i have my papers i have to go through and double check for everything and stuff... but otherwise awesomeness!... sept today we moved basically everything from apartment a to apartment b in like 8 hours between 3 people... hazzah!... we still have a bunch of stuff to get out by 1pm today (meaning 9/10/06)... so yeah... and well after today was awesome i got this...

"kevin,

We need to know what's going on with you. Have you gone to counseling? You agreed to do that and you need to give it a chance. Please talk to us about what you're doing, are you trying to control your thoughts? Are you staying away from the things you need to stay away from? Are you going to worship?

Is there a good time to call you and talk on the phone or do you want to talk thru email?

Please start studying your bible. Please read Colossians 3: 1-17, read it and meditate on it. Open your heart and mind to God instead of evil.

We are praying for you. Many people are praying for you.

Love, Mom & Dad."
so i just felt like posting it after getting a little giggle in... any suggestions on a responce would be cool.. i do have a decent idea of what i'm gonna say but hey i like you guys' suggestions...

 

[Roland00]

Off the top of my head James 2:8-10. In sum, whenever you are breaking just one part of the Jewish Law, you are breaking all of it. But when you love your neighbor you are keeping it.

Hugs, my mom has progressed faster than you. She is no longer sending me religious stuff, now she is just sending stuff like info on hepatitis vaccines.

I am glad things are going well for you, and that there were no kinks in the move

 

[justsimon]

Dousie, I just searched around for resources for you and couldn't find anything. Sorry. I'll keep an eye out, though. Hope you're doing okay.

 

[Soilwork]

Dear Mom and Dad;

The counsellor refuses to see me again because he says that there's nothing wrong with me. He does, however, suggest that you get some counseling of your own.

I have the number of some PFLAG meetings that he suggests you attend.

Love D

 

[justsimon]

Dear Mom and Dad;

The counsellor refuses to see me again because he says that there's nothing wrong with me. He does, however, suggest that you get some counseling of your own.

I have the number of some PFLAG meetings that he suggests you attend.

Love D

That could work... Douseiai, PFLAG is a really great organization. They're used to dealing with all types of parents. I don't know if you've contacted them at all?

 

[frankfrank]

Dear Mom and Dad;

The counsellor refuses to see me again because he says that there's nothing wrong with me. He does, however, suggest that you get some counseling of your own.

I have the number of some PFLAG meetings that he suggests you attend.

Love D

HEAR, HEAR!!!!!!!

 

[muscleboy82000]

Dear Mom and Dad;

The counsellor refuses to see me again because he says that there's nothing wrong with me. He does, however, suggest that you get some counseling of your own.

I have the number of some PFLAG meetings that he suggests you attend.

Love D

It is a little strong but it might be time for a little tough-love for the parents

 

[douseiai]

That could work... Douseiai, PFLAG is a really great organization. They're used to dealing with all types of parents. I don't know if you've contacted them at all?

i have yet to contact pflag... though I am going to a meeting tonight, so i will talk to them and see what they think about my situation as well as my parents...

soilwork thats a great idea its just that i don't wanna be hostile to them... they are taking my lack of talking to them as a hostile move so imagine what that would come off as ... this in part stems to not wanting to lose my trust fund because i know they will tell my grandparents (who set up the trust fund) and i know its bad to say this... but that trust fund looks mighty tastey ...

i have yet to email them back so i still need to think about it some more... i will go to the pflag meeting and see what i thinks... i have an excuse for not emailing back cause well we just moved into the apartment and we are on a wait list to get the internets...

so yeah thanks for the imput once again (would've commented earlier but that whole moving thing got in the way )

thanks again

 

[Roland00]

good luck douseiai , enjoy the pflag meeting.

Oh a trust fund, the saga is getting more interesting....by chance would the grandparents be as hostile to you being gay as your parents?

 

[justsimon]

... this in part stems to not wanting to lose my trust fund because i know they will tell my grandparents (who set up the trust fund) and i know its bad to say this... but that trust fund looks mighty tastey ...

I understand the trustfund issue. For years, my dad has been holding the possibility of a fund from my grandmother over my head. I don't even know if it exists. It's very possible that it doesn't, knowing my grandmother. It's so difficult when family members have control like that.

 

[jockboy01]

I'd say forget about the trust fund. You'll never have enough money anyway b/c your desires will increase proportionally. "Live simply so others can simply live." Okay, enough on my preaching there, but I do believe this. Once you let go of the need for more money, money all works itself out some way.

As to the parents, I like soilwork's answer. I think I would consider using something like that. Their email was ridiculous btw imo.