I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary results!

[JackFTwist]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Let's take a look at Arizona, for example. <clip>

You cannot win a general election by ignoring your base.

yeah I'd go back that far to find a supporting exit poll if I were you

I assume you know that last eight set of exit polls tell us something very different from Arizona's

Clinton and the base?

You can't win a single election with "the base"

that is 35% of the vote

and actually the base is for Obama anyway, plus an expanding number of independents and republicans

Clinton may appeal to the minority of that base but that is all - which is why she loses primary after primary and more important for the base, caucus after caucus (only in bizarro world does a caucus vote not reflect the base because dear friend that is who shows up at a caucus: the base)

Clintons - after 8 years of them before we lost the white house, the senate, the house -

we have done it your way and that wass 8 years of post Clinton bush with six years of gop senate and house


we are not going back to the old days

we are winning this time

and after we win, we will be be able to govern as a United States of America without the name calling old ways of the Clintons

Obama

we are the change we have waited for

 

[NickCole]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Obama has never in his life won an election against a strong Republican candidate. You're basing your "critical thinking" on guesses and propaganda and the way the wind is blowing at the moment. Hillary, in her first Senate race, faced an opponent with a lot of Hate Hillary support and money from across the nation; and she won.

Rick Lazio was a strong Republican candidate? Please.

I didn't say Lazio was a strong Republican candidate.

Why do you guys have such a hard time comprehending simple sentences?

What I wrote is above, which appeared in your own post: "Hillary, in her first Senate race, faced an opponent with a lot of Hate Hillary support and money from across the nation; and she won."

I didn't say Lazio himself was a strong candidate, I said he had a lot of support and money raised nationally by saying if you hate Hillary send me money to defeat her. He spent $61 million trying to defeat Hillary who spent $41 million. Furthermore he had strong support from people like the Governor of NY and the popular Mayor of NYC, and major media people like Tim Russert who hates the Clintons and was moderator for the big Hillary/Lazio debate. Lazio himself was not a strong candidate but his campaign against her was a formidable one because he had a lot of strong artillery behind him -- and Hillary defeated it.

You accuse Sen. Obama's supporters of mania, but your support for Sen. Clinton leads you to make statements like this that are downright delusional.

My statement was spot-on. Your comprehension is delusional.

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Jack, please grow a pair. Some people aren’t going to worship Obama and are going to say nasty things. Not every single Clinton supporter should have scan each forum and reprimand every 'I hate Obama' post. I hate to see how you're going to react if he gets the nomination and the negative ad's begin. I have seen a few posts where Clinton has been called a 'Cunt' and a 'Bitch'. And I don't see you rushing over to scold them for doing so. I'm sick and tired of being treated like a leper because I support Hillary. But I don't expect to be treated any other way because thats how it goes arond here.

Supports Hillary= Bad, Racist, Moron.

26 hours ago I asked for proof of that. Since then two threads with that offending word have gotten a lot of posts here, which is in fact a bad commentary on JUB. I have not read those offensive threads. I just want to know that if 28 hours ago, when this post was made, where are the links to verify that truth is being spoken or is this just another post filled with made up stuff - lies - which I ever more suspect that it is.

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Obama has never in his life won an election against a strong Republican candidate. You're basing your "critical thinking" on guesses and propaganda and the way the wind is blowing at the moment. Hillary, in her first Senate race, faced an opponent with a lot of Hate Hillary support and money from across the nation; and she won.

well, now it depends on what the meaning of "is" is, you are denying your implication that in 2000 she faced a strong candidate. we'll argue about having it all ways another time.

for now: in 2004 Obama faced a well respected Republican who had been a major contender for the Republican presidential nomination in 2000, a man, Alan Keyes, with a national following, with a national base - and Obama kicked his ass with the biggest winning margin in Illinois history.

Of course Obama carried Illinois not only over home state Clinton, but carried Illinois by double the margin of which she carried NY. Interesting.

It is a marvel that you dudes try to pretend in your make believe world that somehow Obama is not tough enough. He not only was the first black editor for Harvard Law Review which does not go to the faint of heart...

but he is a politician from Chicago.

If you think an elected office holder from Chicago cannot slice and dice in ways you have never seen before, then for your own safety, stay out of Chicago.

 

[NickCole]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

you are denying your implication that in 2000 she faced a strong candidate.

Nope. I was clear in my initial post and further clarified in my second. Rick Lazio was not a strong candidate himself but his campaign was formidible because of the strong artillery he had behind him. He was able to outspend Hillary by tens of millions of dollars, he had the popular New York Governor, the popular New York City Mayor and lots of other endorsers. He was a native son, good looking, charming, young, likable. They mounted a bulldozing nasty campaign calling her a carpetbagger and an embarrassment, and had national coverage every night bashing her. And Hillary Clinton defeated them.

we'll argue about having it all ways another time.

Yeah right. Like I'd waste my time.

for now: in 2004 Obama faced a well respected Republican who had been a major contender for the Republican presidential nomination in 2000, a man, Alan Keyes, with a national following, with a national base - and Obama kicked his ass with the biggest winning margin in Illinois history.

Alan Keyes!

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

thanks Nick for more informed discourse, just what we expect from you

in 2004, the Democrats picked up how many US Senate seats from Republicans? Can you name them?

 

[syntax]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Nope. I was clear in my initial post and further clarified in my second. Rick Lazio was not a strong candidate

So Sen. Clinton, like Sen. Obama, has not yet faced a strong candidate.

Is that accurate?

 

[NickCole]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

So Sen. Clinton, like Sen. Obama, has not yet faced a strong candidate.

Is that accurate?

No that's not accurate.

You are being dishonest, cutting off my post that way and then using it to reframe my point.

Dishonest. Is that what Senator Obama is inspiring in his disciples? We're seeing more and more of it here and elsewhere.

This is accurate:

Rick Lazio was not a strong candidate himself but his campaign was formidible because of the strong artillery he had behind him. He was able to outspend Hillary by tens of millions of dollars, he had the popular New York Governor, the popular New York City Mayor and lots of other endorsers. He was a native son, good looking, charming, young, likable. They mounted a bulldozing nasty campaign calling her a carpetbagger and an embarrassment, and had national coverage every night bashing her. And Hillary Clinton defeated them.

 

[JackFTwist]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

JT thinks he is right about everything. Don't you know that.

He reminds me of that little mouse on those cartoons. He whore that little bennie on his head. I can't think of the name I saw it on cartoon network. LOL. I know he will run and cry and get this post deleted like he did my other.

Wow.

When did I get a post of yours deleted? I must have superpowers!

Getting paranoid there old chum?

Or I do have superpowers enough to know how to do research. By the way, if this were a forum on cars or 12th century French motets I would not say a word. But politics...

in 2004 (you would search at google.com, using the terms"u.s. senate elections 2004") you would see that there were only two Dem pick ups in the US Senate in 2004. One was Colorado. One was Illinois. The Dems lost six seats for a net loss of four. So Obama bucked the trend i 2004 picking up a Republican seat. That is called "a good candidate who beats Republicans."

In 2000, a good year for Dems US Senate wise (net pick up of four) Clinton held a Democratic seat. Whether she beat a strong opponent on not depends on your "depends on the definition of 'is' is" argument, whichever post of your one reads. She did not lose what was ours. Good for her. Obama picked on of theirs. Good for him. How you want to spin that, go right ahead.

We all await your next installment on the 2000 GOP candidate in NY, in which anytime anyone quotes you, they are wrong, because you say something the opposite of your prior post.

 

[syntax]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

No that's not accurate.

You are being dishonest, cutting off my post that way and then using it to reframe my point.

Dishonest. Is that what Senator Obama is inspiring in his disciples? We're seeing more and more of it here and elsewhere.

This is accurate:

Rick Lazio was not a strong candidate himself but his campaign was formidible because of the strong artillery he had behind him. He was able to outspend Hillary by tens of millions of dollars, he had the popular New York Governor, the popular New York City Mayor and lots of other endorsers. He was a native son, good looking, charming, young, likable. They mounted a bulldozing nasty campaign calling her a carpetbagger and an embarrassment, and had national coverage every night bashing her. And Hillary Clinton defeated them.

NickCole, you stated that Sen. Obama has not faced a strong Republican candidate. You stated that Rick Lazio, Sen. Clinton's opponent, was not a strong candidate.

You then made note that he had strong backing behind him, but that does not change the fact that you stated that Rick Lazio was not a strong candidate.

The only accurate conclusion that anyone can draw from your statements is that Sen. Obama AND Sen. Clinton have not faced a strong Republican candidate.

How is that dishonest?

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Bush's lack of qualifications didn't unnerve people one bit because Bush is white.

Experience as a governor is generally considered more valuable than experience in Congress. Bush had such experience, and that was a qualification.

I was planning to have some surgery soon. My surgeon is not immediately available, so his wife will be doing the operation.

She's had lots of experience. She's been married to a surgeon for years.

I have seen a few posts where Clinton has been called a 'Cunt' and a 'Bitch'. And I don't see you rushing over to scold them for doing so.

That's really terrible -- they should make up their minds, and call her one thing or the other.

While I still think Hillary will make the best President, I'm a rugged realist; I see how the press hates her, how many people hate her--even pro-Obama people hate her. It puzzles me, but it is what it is.

While I'm still a Hillary supporter, I'm beginning to think an Obama victory will be better for the Democratic Party in November; a nominated candidate who's loved will do better than a nominated candidate who's so widely hated.

Having 48% of all voters hate you enough that they say they will never under any circumstances vote for you is a pretty strong negative in a candidate.
Knowing that, and running anyway, makes it seem to me that what Hillary's platform really is, is "Division! Keep America divided!"


And BTW, in the running battle over who said what and meant what, I judge Jack's reading comprehension to be ahead of Nick's writing clarity.

 

[PabloZed]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Its interesting how claims get tossed out during a campaign, get repeated ad nauseum by the media without ever being examined. One such claim is that Obama has not gotten media scrutiny. The Chicago papers (Sun-Times and the Tribune) are pretty good papers and have run extensive stories on Obama - his family, his schooling, his career. The New York Times has also run all sorts of stories about Obama, including one about his time at Columbia U which included researching where he lived as a student. The television media has also covered him. What's more, he has been in 18 debates during this campaign. Is this the absence of scrutiny?

I think the claim is not about media scrutiny at all, but rather yet another attempt to suggest there is something that the voters don't know and that Obama is hiding. This is the same strategy behind claiming Obama can't withstand the GOP attack machine. Just more Rovian fear tactics that I think the voters are sick of.

 

[syntax]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

JT thinks he is right about everything. Don't you know that.

He reminds me of that little mouse on those cartoons. He whore that little bennie on his head. I can't think of the name I saw it on cartoon network. LOL. I know he will run and cry and get this post deleted like he did my other.

You remind me of the person who cannot spell correctly.

 

[AsianDream]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

Hey morons now want qualifications now that a black man is running and he might win.

Bush's lack of qualifications didn't unnerve people one bit because Bush is white.

A black candidate has to be doubly qualified.

Bush's lack of qualifications maybe should have unnerved people

When the history books get written he will surely go down as one of the most amazingly incompetent US Presidents ever.

The worry about Obama is that he'd be the sort of president that gets assassinated (which is historically a major hazard of the job) - so his choice of vice president might well matter more

 

[TierraSimms]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

I don't hate Obama, and I will say it again. Kool-aide and fried chicken on the white house lawn doesn't look good. LOL

Fried chicken and Kool-Aid? BTW, you mispelled Kool-Aid, it doesn't have an "e" at the end.

Well, since we are on the notion of calling people names then I guess calling you an Oreo would be fitting title for you. FYI, if you are going to make racist remarks about somebody, learn how to SPELL.

 

[opinterph]

Re: Kool-aide and fried chicken on the WH lawn

… Well, since we are on the notion of calling people names then I guess calling you [a derogatory slang name] would be fitting title for you …

Actually, NO. Please refer the to the CE&P Rules Of Engagement.

The mention of chicken bones and watermelon seeds, fried chicken and watermelon, or fried chicken and Kool-Aid does not equate to calling people names. It certainly does not represent a direct personal insult against a fellow poster. Additionally, the use of such terms as a means to identify or characterize a particular race does not, of itself, constitute racism. Though potentially provocative and/or perceptually inappropriate, the relationship between the terms enumerated and their reactive consequence is mostly a matter of interpretation.

In early January a particular post generated a number of complaints, as it consisted of an allegedly “racist” remark. Another variation of the same remark appeared very soon thereafter in a separate post. Both of these posts were very similar to the fried chicken and Kool-Aid remark you are addressing in this thread.

In fairly short order, I proceeded to delete the first two posts on the premise that they were “off-topic.” The member who posted the remarks did not include any explanation about how they related to the threads in which they appeared. Because they consisted exclusively of culinary references, I determined that their relationship to the topics was insufficient and therefore removed them on that basis.

Meanwhile, the earlier complaints had suggested that those remarks represented an expression of racially based hate speech. It is fair to report that both of these initial incidents catalyzed a rather comprehensive discussion among moderators, with implication to the concepts of freedom of speech, political correctness, perceived racial slurs, et al. We [the moderators] soon affirmed that whatever value might result from prohibiting all expressions of racial context that could possibly offend is outweighed by the more general notion of freedom of expression itself. This is certainly not to suggest that hate speech will be tolerated in any form whatsoever, but rather that the identification or characterization of any particular phrase as hate speech requires more than subjective or speculative assumption.

This determination coincided with the publication of the aforementioned (and now somewhat notorious) fried chicken and Kool-Aid post. As a consequence of our deliberation about the previous variations of this phrase, we concluded that this appearance of a 3rd incarnation of the remark did not warrant removal or other moderator intervention.

Of course, individual members are always free to share their own assessments of any particular phrase and it is by no means inappropriate for members to constructively relate their criticism of any such phrase as a means to alert the individual responsible for its publication of whatever offense may be perceived.

Please understand that moderators are charged with the task of maintaining civil discourse in the forum. From time to time we may use our discretion to intervene, in the hope of retarding harsh rhetoric and thereby attempt to refocus members toward more wholesome mechanisms of interaction. Most often this intervention is successful, but sometimes the protagonist is undeterred. Generally speaking and as a matter of basic propriety, it is not unreasonable to anticipate that posted comments should always correspond to essential or relevant aspects of the issue(s) being discussed.

In any event, it is always inappropriate to include a direct personal insult toward another member in any post. All members should express their opinion about another person's ideas, not about them personally.

Members are encouraged to use the Post Report feature to alert moderators of potential or developing problems. We may not always be able to respond immediately, but all reports are systematically reviewed.

 

[TierraSimms]

Re: I'm so dissapointed at tonight's primary resul

^^^Whatever. As long as he refers to Barack Obama as "Fried Chicken and Kool-Aid" then I'm going to refer to Hillary Clinton as a "Bitch-asss cunt". You moderators on this subforum seem to tolerate foolishness so you gonna get what you tolerate.