Impressions from attending a mosque for the first time

[LilBit]

Oh, please! Have you actually engaged any Muslims? They love to live in a bubble of self-inflicted victimism and use their "otherness" as a means to justify the most outrageous of ideas, attitudes and behaviours. Yes, there are discrimination and racism against Muslims. Often, they are MORE than justified. The levels of hypocrisy, dishonesty, greed and prejudice within those communities are beyond anything anyone can imagine, and the worst of it all is that they believe that they have a right to act execrably towards anyone who doesn't share their reductive and primitive views of the world - unless you happen to be a man, of course, in which case they will cowardly attack you when you turn your back.

It's telling that not a single "moderate" Muslim group has ever stood up to the most radical factions within their community, and all are quick to say "yes, but you discriminate us!" whenever they are engaged in a debate about religious fundamentalism and attempted cultural imposition in the Western countries where they have migrated. Yes, this is a very complex problem that goes beyond the simplistic "us against them" approach that many politicians have adopted, but it is undeniable that we, as citizens of fairer and freer societies, have been much more tolerant and compassionate with these communities than they would have been with us had we migrated to their countries of origin. And yet, the payment we have received for giving people and opportunity to escape depauperation are violence, fundamentalism and permanent emotional blackmail over a perceived "mistreatment" of Muslims since the Crusades.

Just a starting point: http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh, please! Have you actually engaged any Muslims? They love to live in a bubble of self-inflicted victimism and use their "otherness" as a means to justify the most outrageous of ideas, attitudes and behaviours. Yes, there are discrimination and racism against Muslims. Often, they are MORE than justified. The levels of hypocrisy, dishonesty, greed and prejudice within those communities are beyond anything anyone can imagine, and the worst of it all is that they believe that they have a right to act execrably towards anyone who doesn't share their reductive and primitive views of the world - unless you happen to be a man, of course, in which case they will cowardly attack you when you turn your back.

There were lots of Muslims at OSU when I was there, and very few were anything remotely like you describe. There were a couple in our Intelligent Design club, and they were very rational.

It's telling that not a single "moderate" Muslim group has ever stood up to the most radical factions within their community, and all are quick to say "yes, but you discriminate us!" whenever they are engaged in a debate about religious fundamentalism and attempted cultural imposition in the Western countries where they have migrated. Yes, this is a very complex problem that goes beyond the simplistic "us against them" approach that many politicians have adopted, but it is undeniable that we, as citizens of fairer and freer societies, have been much more tolerant and compassionate with these communities than they would have been with us had we migrated to their countries of origin. And yet, the payment we have received for giving people and opportunity to escape depauperation are violence, fundamentalism and permanent emotional blackmail over a perceived "mistreatment" of Muslims since the Crusades.

I don't know where you live, but when there were protests over the US invasion of Iraq, there were Muslims on both sides. And twice I've seen mosque members turn out to march condemning Islamic terrorism. Your description is a caricature, and I say that not merely from my own experience but from media reports.

That's not to say that peaceful and moderate Muslims couldn't do a more vigorous job of admonishing their more barbaric brethren!

 

[Kulindahr]

Just a starting point: http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/

I've seen some of those before. But we rarely hear of them, because they just aren't as newsworthy.

 

[Telstra]

You would think they care but Saudi Wahhabists do not value holy or historical "sites" as it were. They consider it idolatry. So, there goes the bulldozer.

Here's a really old picture of the place.

About "don't worship any idols but worship only god", they have different understanding of that statement than mine. They worship Muhammad, mecca, that black building, Islamic writings, the Koran .... etc which are all idols to me.

 

[72-Jay]

I'm sorry to hear that. That said, no one else can call us to a role in life -- we can only follow our own paths.

As far as I know my own path leads into a blackhole of nothingness LOL

Not the religion itself...its the people. I consider them terrorists, and would never trust one.

Even though the great majority of Muslims around the world detest terrorism?

I'm sure there are a few who aren't terrorists. Simple fact is I still wouldn't trust any one of those guys because some are (but thats simply my view/feeling...its ingrained and not likely to change). I know others are gonna feel differently & thats fine with me.

 

[Telstra]

Muslims explicitly state that they do not worship Mohammed, and certainly no building or artifact. They further state that the Koran is never to be worshiped, only respected as the unadulterated Word of God.

They stated these things during the service I attended. It is the "party line," and your conflating of revere with worship would be deeply offense to any Muslim.

umm the pilgrim to Mecca is not "worship" ?
Praise Muhammad sometimes more than god is "worship" ?
Worshiping that black stone is not "worship" ?
Worshiping the book is not "worship" ?

Oh well, they don't know what worship means at the moment.
Maybe in the near future, they will come the same conclusion as some Christians do, god is only love and NOTHING ELSE.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I've visited plenty of mosques that were happy to let non-Muslims come in and learn about their faith. And all of these mosques have been very vocal in speaking out against extremism.

I took some students to the Islamic Center in Dearborn, MI, and their interfaith director (or something like that) said very explicitly that he would never wish for the entire world to be Muslim because we can learn so much from people of other faiths. American Muslims are not at all like the extremists that we see in other parts of the world.

In the same spirit, a quote I added to the 'something beautiful' thread, from the Koran:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other).

Surat Al-Ĥujurāt 49:13

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm sure there are a few who aren't terrorists. Simple fact is I still wouldn't trust any one of those guys because some are (but thats simply my view/feeling...its ingrained and not likely to change). I know others are gonna feel differently & thats fine with me.

You shouldn't trust ANYONE, with that reasoning. There are terrorists in just about every group on the planet -- just think of our white supremacists, for starters.

SOME of any group at all can't be trusted. So you'd better crawl into a hole and pull it in after you.

 

[Telstra]

You don't know what worship means.
Worship is when you treat something that special that you could kill, or cause harm for it.

 

[Kulindahr]

You don't know what worship means.
Worship is when you treat something that special that you could kill, or cause harm for it.

Where in any reality at all did you get that messed-up definition?!?!?!?

 

[Telstra]

Where in any reality at all did you get that messed-up definition?!?!?!?

ummm you have to include my whole sentence. Can't just cut and paste my words out of context.
The bible tell me so

 

[Kulindahr]

You're special yet we don't worship you.

What about the killing part?

 

[Telstra]

You're special yet we don't worship you.

Just post for posting sake is annoying.

 

[frankfrank]

Consider that Muhammad Ali is Muslim.

Extremist? No, I think not.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
And we've had gay Muslims here.

 

[LilBit]

I'm sure there are a few who aren't terrorists. Simple fact is I still wouldn't trust any one of those guys because some are (but thats simply my view/feeling...its ingrained and not likely to change). I know others are gonna feel differently & thats fine with me.

Funny. I remember, about ten years ago, having a similar discussion with someone else on a different forum. Except he was trying to argue that the vast majority of gay men are pedophiles. Like you, he chose to ignore all of the evidence to the contrary, and he stuck to his bigoted point of view because "that's what he believed."

Have fun living in your tiny little world.

- - - Updated - - -

^
And we've had gay Muslims here.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two gay Muslims and one bi Muslim amongst my friends. And I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.

 

[Kulindahr]

Off the top of my head, I can think of two gay Muslims and one bi Muslim amongst my friends. And I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.

I danced with a gay Muslim once. He did things with his abs while dancing that could knock some men dead.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Consider that Muhammad Ali is Muslim.

Extremist? No, I think not.

I wouldn't be suggesting someone who bashes other people up is a suitable role-model.

 

[freefall]

Worship is when you treat something that special that you could kill, or cause harm for it.

Merriem-Webster disagrees with you apparently.

wor-ship (/ˈwərSHəp/) [v]: show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.

Besides, Muslims do not worship the Kaaba (the black stone you mention, in case you don't know the name) or the Koran; the things are treated like crosses and the bible for Christians. The pilgrimage purpose is similar to Christian's pilgrimage - to pay respect to their past prophets. Of course there are many heretic worshipers, but we can ignore them at this point.

 

[Telstra]

Merriem-Webster disagrees with you apparently.



Besides, Muslims do not worship the Kaaba (the black stone you mention, in case you don't know the name) or the Koran; the things are treated like crosses and the bible for Christians. The pilgrimage purpose is similar to Christian's pilgrimage - to pay respect to their past prophets. Of course there are many heretic worshipers, but we can ignore them at this point.

um Webster might be out of date or not enough details.

"the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
"worship of the Mother Goddess"
synonyms: reverence, revering, worshipping, veneration, venerating, adoration, adoring, -olatry, devotion, praise, thanksgiving, praising, praying to, glorification, glorifying, glory, exaltation, exalting, extolment, extolling, homage, respect, honour, honouring, esteem;
dulia, latria;
rarelaudation, magnification
"the new Church rejected the worship of saints and relics"

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=gWKkUqKULcL1kQWW5ICoDQ