In a relationship with another top - getting concerned... please help

[saymyname]

Alright, I posted a thread about a similar issue as this a little while ago, but it was mostly about the physical side of things: http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260936

But now something even weirder is going on... and I'm really just starting to get confused.

Like it says in the other thread, my bf and I are both tops, so whenever we have anal sex, it's we're really sharing ourselves with each other... it's kind of special. He's fucked me 3 times, and the first time I just thought it was a little weird, but I didn't mind it, and now I'm pretty okay with it. The only thing both of us have ever say we really hate about it is if the muscle clinches upon first sticking the cock in - that fucking hurts. But it doesn't happen every time.

Up until recently, I thought the only reason we weren't doing it a lot is because it hurts him and that he's not a big fan of it... but last night changed that. He let me fuck him, there was no muscle clinch, everything seemed to be going fine. He was laying on his stomach and be on top of him... I'm not sure why he thinks that's such a great position. The first couple of times I've fucked him, it was bent over - once in the shower, which he really got into. I'm just so fucking confused. Sometimes he says he likes it, and then this time... he told me to stop, so I did, this is after like, 5 minutes, maybe. I pull my dick out, still on top of him, and kiss him, and then I notice it... he's crying. Tears running down the face of the guy I love. I ask him what's wrong, to please stop crying, that everything is okay, etc. He wipes his tears and says he's sorry, and that he really wants to like it, and wishes he could... I asked him if it hurt, and he said it wasn't about the physical part of it.

I should back up and explain a bit more. He's bisexual... young. He says he's a top, but you can tell he likes cock way more. I'm a top and I love rimming, I love a hot guys asshole, etc etc. He's not like that. He says he thinks pussy's are prettier than assholes... doesn't look at a guys butt when he jerks off... and even though we try not to get into the stereotypical top/bottom dynamic of gay relationships, he said he wants to be the bottom - in the non-sexual way (protector/protected, lover/beloved kind of thing).

It's just that... sometimes I feel like I'm fucking a straight boy. After I fucked him last night, he said a few things that struck me: it felt like being raped - which makes me really uncomfortable... and to further explain that, he said it felt like how I probably feel if he keeps fucking me after I come while jerking off when he is fucking me.

When he's fucking me, it's not as if I prefer to get fucked, but I can deal with it, get into it, make the best of it. I jerk off, have him talk dirty to me, and after I come from it, I want him OUT of there. But when I fuck him, most of the time I am super gentle, he doesn't seem to enjoy it at all, doesn't jerk himself off, doesn't get into it. I'm worried. When I fucked him last night he said it helped when I whispered to him "I love you" and telling him how beautiful he is... but of course, I didn't think I'd have to say that all throughout the sex in order for him to feel okay. He says he thinks it's a psychological thing, which is what it sounds like to me.

But I just don't get how something like this can come up, but then there's been a few times I've fucked him where he's been okay with it. And he did it with his last boyfriend frequently, who had a smaller/thinner dick, so I'm starting to think it's really not a physical issue. Could I really be in love with a guy that doesn't like getting fucked, period? And if so, why does it seem like it works sometimes, doesn't work other times? He comes up with all these strange reasons... "my asshole hurts," he says, thinking it's from the saliva around his hole from rimming him, and that it irritates him when he's getting fucked. And that his ass hurts after sex. Come on, guys... I've bottomed 3 times, his dick is bigger than mine, and it's a little awkward sometimes but I'm definitely not having these kinds of issues. What is going on!

 

[saymyname]

And just so people don't get the wrong idea: I have a nice, normal dick. It's 6.5 inches, cut, normally thick, and a nice shape. I've topped probably a dozen guys or so and never had any complaints, always compliments...

 

[spencer]

And just so people don't get the wrong idea: I have a nice, normal dick. It's 6.5 inches, cut, normally thick, and a nice shape. I've topped probably a dozen guys or so and never had any complaints, always compliments...

I need you to PM me pictures so I know you're not lying

here's the thing, sex is emotional. when you dominate him, he probably feels like the girl of the relationship. he doesn't like that feeling (emotionally) and he lets you continue cause he loves you. So he cries cause he's conflicted.

I would say this. Stop topping him until he asks or is in the mood. If he doesn't ask you again ever, then maybe talk about it. But you can't really force someone to be something they aren't. If you get him more emotionally comfortable with you, he might be okay with it and be comfortable about it.

 

[TX-Beau]

yeah there's some issues there it looks like. Plus I don't get the whole top/bottom as some kind of psycho-thing. I don't like to bottom, it hurts. But I'll do it for a guy I care about. But that has nothing to do with some kind of daddy/boy dynamic.

I like to be on equal footing. Seems to me you've got some kind of weird hetero sex role paradigm thing in both of your heads, and that could be part of the problem.

 

[saymyname]

I like to be on equal footing. Seems to me you've got some kind of weird hetero sex role paradigm thing in both of your heads, and that could be part of the problem.

No... I thought I made it pretty clear that we don't buy into that. We're trying to be vers for each other. All I meant by him being the bottom emotionally is that he does tend to take on the more 'bottom' characteristics, ie, being the little spoon. He likes that. Doesn't mean he can't turn around and fuck me and tell me I'm a bad college boy. Haha.

I like the idea about not asking him until he wants it or suggests trying it again. That's complicated 'cause I get him so worked up during oral sex, and he'll say, "I want you to fuck my little ass" etc., but sometimes it's just dirty talk.

I also agree it could be an issue about him feeling like "a bitch" and not being comfortable with that. I told him that's how I felt the first time he fucked me (which is also the first time I'd ever been fucked) but I've since learned, as it was with oral sex, that my masculinity and potential submissive roles in bed are not one in the same.

I really think he needs to try jerking off while I'm fucking him. I don't find it enjoyable having anything up there if I'm not jerking off.

 

[TX-Beau]

... and even though we try not to get into the stereotypical top/bottom dynamic of gay relationships, he said he wants to be the bottom - in the non-sexual way (protector/protected, lover/beloved kind of thing).

This is what I'm talking about, none of this has anything to do with who's dick goes into who.

You say you don't want to get into something stereotypical - which by the way hasn't been my experience of gay men anyway, that sounds like a straight relationship stereotype - then you say he wants to get into something stereotypical.

That's conflicted.

 

[yourally]

It's because he feels like he's losing his manliness/mandom/whatever, let him top you more often?

 

[TX-Beau]

I actually doubt that this is about testosterone posturing if he's crying about wanting to enjoy being a bottom.

Frankly my first thought was sexual abuse issues. But then, I don't know either of these two so who knows.

 

[saymyname]

This is what I'm talking about, none of this has anything to do with who's dick goes into who.

You say you don't want to get into something stereotypical - which by the way hasn't been my experience of gay men anyway, that sounds like a straight relationship stereotype - then you say he wants to get into something stereotypical.

That's conflicted.

All I meant by that was that he wants to be the bottom in the dynamic of a more emotional way - which I realize has nothing to do with penetration - but that he's expressed that he also wishes he could be the bottom in bed, too, and enjoy it.

And no. No sexual abuse issues.

Moving on...

 

[LoveIsNow]

All I meant by that was that he wants to be the bottom in the dynamic of a more emotional way - which I realize has nothing to do with penetration - but that he's expressed that he also wishes he could be the bottom in bed, too, and enjoy it.

Just because you don't associate being the emotionally submissive partner with being penetrated doesn't mean he doesn't.

Anal sex is very symbolic. It's completely unnatural (i.e. it isn't seen in nature - there's no lube in nature), and is based on the sociological symbolism of penetration, which our culture puts a lot of importance (e.g. Bill Clinton saying oral sex isn't sex). As you said, you have to be in a certain frame of mind to enjoy it, which is why I think it's a psychological train wreck.

I agree with the point that TX-Beau was trying to make which is that maybe he subscribes to the idea that because he occupies the emotionally submissive (girl) role, that he should want to be penetrated.

 

[saymyname]

Okay. So are you trying to say that if you aren't in the frame of mind, that's when it becomes a "psychological trainwreck"?

What I don't get is him saying he WANTS to be the 'sub' partner, in both ways, but can't handle getting fucked from a mental p.o.v.

I don't know what I'm gonna do if he never wants it. I need to top. I love him so fucking much and when I do top him it feels so good to be that close to him... I'm not saying I'd make a big deal about this and leave him if that's what it came down to, but it would be a compromise.

But he did tell me last night that even if he decides he never likes it, he'll still do it. I think we both just know we'll enjoy it much more if we both enjoy it.

 

[LoveIsNow]

It's always a psychological trainwreck. You shouldn't have to put yourself in a frame of mind. Sex should come naturally and be mutually satisfying.

 

[saymyname]

I think psychological trainwreck might be a tad bit dramatic. I've had a few fucked up situations, or things that pissed me off, but I wouldn't say this is a "psychological trainwreck" for either of us. Maybe you could elaborate why you're using such harsh terminology?

 

[bankside]

I'm one of those guys who never understood the whole "top vs. bottom" thing...ever...it took me a while to truly believe people were serious or not slow in the head when they would insist that they were one or the other...

Anyway, that is a whole thread on its own.

But even as a totally versatile person, I still remember not knowing how to get fucked.

Fucking was a little bit easier to figure out, but to get fucked is a skill you have to learn. It takes time and practice, sometimes it will be successful and sometimes not. Let me say again, it takes time and practice to figure out just how it works and to get any good at it. Sometimes the ass is in the mood, sometimes it is not....It's like it has a mind of its own. But damn, the payoff is incredible...it can feel so good, right away, and for as long as you want it to.

So from my point of view, the problem is not that you're both "tops," the problem is that you're both trying to do something you've never done before and you don't know how to do very well yet. My advice is ease up, admit it is going to take some practice, and don't worry if you have to pull out and finish off some other way while you're still learning.

And don't "put up with it" for his sake, plan to enjoy it.
As a versatile guy, I can't believe how many people say that taking dick hurts like hell at first but then you just deal with it, or some crap like that. If it feels like it stings, burns, rips, aches, cramps or grates, you're doing it wrong. When you get the hang of it, it feels like pure pleasure, it feels as good for your ass as your dick ever made you feel, and it is like discovering you have some kind of internal dick that is just as good as the dick you always knew about since the first time you jerked off...

When my guy fucks me, it is total comfort and pleasure, and that should be your goal.

I don't think this has much to do with psychology - it is totally "practice makes perfect" and just a case of learning how. But it is the best homework ever!

 

[LoveIsNow]

Maybe trainwreck could be perceived as a harsh word, but I just mean that the whole top/bottom dynamic (especially the bottom side) is very psychological. Both roles are learned behaviors. No ones first sexual thoughts are about anuses, nor about being anally penetrated. The weaknesses of this system are apparent when you have two tops or worse: two bottoms. The thing is they're both just habitual; there's nothing intrinsic about a person that makes him a top or a bottom. I know guys who are total bottoms and now swear that they can only orgasm with something up their ass. They didn't always need something up their ass to get off, but have since gotten into the mindset that their ass is their sexual center. The whole thing is psychological, and it can cause problems and inhibitions that mutual masturbation, frot, oral , etc. don't generally cause. Again, trainwreck may be a strong word; if you look, I'm sure you can find me calling religion, sexual orientation, and gender "trainweck"'s on here, too. I'm just highly opinionated.

 

[Pathfinder]

I recognize myself a lot in your boyfriend (though i'm not bi), so i'll try and give you some pointers.

The only thing both of us have ever say we really hate about it is if the muscle clinches upon first sticking the cock in - that fucking hurts. But it doesn't happen every time.

Yeah, there are a number of threads on this topic (on how to avoid it), but you prolly know that you have to take it slow, use fingers first (+lube), blah blah. Moving on.

Up until recently, I thought the only reason we weren't doing it a lot is because it hurts him and that he's not a big fan of it... but last night changed that. He let me fuck him, there was no muscle clinch, everything seemed to be going fine. He was laying on his stomach and be on top of him... I'm not sure why he thinks that's such a great position.

I should back up and explain a bit more. He's bisexual... young. He says he's a top, but you can tell he likes cock way more. I'm a top and I love rimming, I love a hot guys asshole, etc etc. ........... , he said he wants to be the bottom - in the non-sexual way (protector/protected, lover/beloved kind of thing)

After I fucked him last night, he said a few things that struck me: it felt like being raped - which makes me really uncomfortable...

But when I fuck him, most of the time I am super gentle, he doesn't seem to enjoy it at all, doesn't jerk himself off, doesn't get into it. I'm worried. When I fucked him last night he said it helped when I whispered to him "I love you" and telling him how beautiful he is... but of course, I didn't think I'd have to say that all throughout the sex in order for him to feel okay. He says he thinks it's a psychological thing, which is what it sounds like to me.

I've topped him about 4 times, and he's bottomed for other guys too, and he's still TIGHT as FUCK, and usually says his butt hurts after.

Yes, it's a psychological thing, like he thinks. Think this person said it best:

"Maybe trainwreck could be perceived as a harsh word, but I just mean that the whole top/bottom dynamic (especially the bottom side) is very psychological. Both roles are learned behaviors. No ones first sexual thoughts are about anuses, nor about being anally penetrated."

Notice that in your relationship he enjoys being the emotional bottom - he loves to feel protected/loved/safe. And when he was with a girl, the roles were reversed, neh? The same thing can apply in your sex life. I underlined the part where he said that he liked having sex while lying on his stomach - why? Because that position is very personal when making love. You both love each other very much right?
That position reminds of when a guy hugs you from behind, and wraps you in his arms, kisses your neck, nibbles on your ear, +all those other touchy-feely stuff. In that moment, one generally feels safe, loved, like nothing can go wrong.
*loves cuddling/hugging*

About feeling "raped". I wouldn't use that word tbh, rather "feeling cheap/void/empty and used". Here's the thing - from a sexual point of view, bottoming can be viewed as girly/submissive/even a degrading sex act, and an insecure person can have a lot of problems/complexes because of that - from a tight unrelaxed anus, to crying, like in this case.
Personally, i am very comfortable with playing both roles, with having just sex (when super horny), dirty talking, etc. But. I prefer making love. So, when bottoming, i feel most comfortable in the position he mentioned, because it gives the opportunity to the guy topping to show just how much he cares about me. Remember when he said that it helped when you said that you loved him and how beautiful he was? BINGO.

You may be very gentle when doing him, but how much emotions do you reflect while doing it? Now and then during sex, do you stop for a second to gaze in his eyes, to tell him you love him, to just slowly make out with him in the middle of having sex? To him bottoming seems to be "personal", and (only) about how you treat him while doing him. If you don't succeed in sending your emotions to him, he will (again) feel "raped".

Hence, do your best at giving him the maximum lovey-dovey attention you can, when topping him. Think that should do the trick. If you love him, that shouldn't pose a problem for you. ^^

I understand this seems like a lot of distraction during sex ("attention whoring"), but he seems very polar with roles due to being in fact - insecure. In relationships with girls, he's the one doing the protecting/hugging/topping/etc. (right?), but in guy-guy relationships the roles are reversed. Just a year ago, i couldn't have imagined myself being a "firm top", and dating a guy shorter and weaker than me, because i wasn't fully "okay" with being gay. Things changed after building more self confidence. Maybe it's the same thing with him.