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Is America a Great Country? Why?

  • Thread starter Thread starter byro
  • Start date Start date
Me being English I can't really say much on the subject.

Most people think highly of their own country, but it can be intimidating the way America is so vocal about it, and it often comes across as ignorant and arrogant.

I have nothing against the American people, most of you are great, but America as a country scares me. It scares me as the unofficial world police, with the power to nuke any country it dislikes.

I'm happy and proud to be English and to live in England.
 
LaloGS -- post #15: :=D: :=D: :=D:

Should the US ever suffer an internal insurrection, not only would the military be the driving force to put it down, but the large body of brainwashed sports addicts would welcome the opportunity to defend the country with violence.

Or they'd be the shock troops of the new revolution. With the educated, disciplined military we have now, it would be quite possible that we'd have the armed forces standing by while the nasty federal police agencies fought your sports fans.

Yeah I know you all think they are just games, but there is a deeper concern for how they work in the negative. Just ask yourselves why a city government has to tax the citizens to build new and larger stadiums instead of the franchise owners putting up the stadiums since they are the ones making the profits from the games. Stupid beyond belief if you look at it. Not only do the citizens have to shell out, but usually the city gives the franchise tax incentives to bring the teams to the city in the first place, so these multi-millionaires make more millions, and essentially do it with the blessings of the government of your city. Double stupid to say the least.

Prestige. Today's cities aren't the first rulers in human history to do things for prestige.

We live in precarious times, and we are at the effect of forces that push us all into directions we don't willingly want to take. The only solution to our salvation is to wake up and realize how we are being manipulated nearly every waking moment of our lives. We are no longer in control of our thoughts. The first steps to dictatorship are being taken right now. Wake up. This is no conspiracy theory.

The first steps to dictatorship were taken long before this. Look at federal "police" agencies using military equipment against citizens under Clinton -- or, for that matter, manipulating the law to harass honest citizens who happened to engage in activities Clinton didn't approve of. The only real difference now is that Bush has rammed through laws to bless what previous presidents did anyway, illegally. And two of the current presidential candidates both have beliefs that would only feed the trend; the third is probably no different.

Looking at what our government is becoming, and because I still love this country, I actually wish the Supreme Court would reaffirm the right of insurrection, and declare, as the Miller decision affirmed, that every citizen is guaranteed the freedom to keep and bear any personal military weapon -- because I think we're going to need them.
 
We are a great country

the best

why?

ask all of the immigrants who want to come here

opportunity

jobs

political freedom

religious freedom

mix of cultures

all people are created equal

democracy

come and go as u please

access to so many great things

great education, great healthcare

so much more ................

love my country

yeah
 
When i see the flag I see all that have died fopr whatever their cause at the time. They died under those colors. They sacrificed so others may sit and wonder why it had to be so. They sacrificed so others might never have to even lift a finger to enjoy the fruits of that sacrifice. I see everyday what my country fought and died for on so many different fronts.

This is something I've never understood. I have bottomless love and sorrow for the many many American service people who've been killed, maimed or tortured, as well as those who came back in one piece and certainly their families and friends. But when I look at the particular wars since WW II, I have to ask, "What did they sacrifice for?" Korea, Vietnam and Iraq have all been misguided (to use a gigantic euphemism) and nothing to do with "defending" America or preserving democracy in the U.S. So why were all those brave, frightened, beautiful people's lives shattered?

Yes of course we must support our troops, both while they're in harms way and when they come home, but to ask them to lay down their lives for Haliburton et al is vile. How is that patriotic? "Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" is worse than disingenuous, it's obscene. How does that reflect well on America? And how many more misguided wars will it take before eighteen year olds don't have to be killed -- not for me in my armchair, nor for democracy, but for the political expediency of multinational corporations and D.C. careerists.

I wish I could look at the flag and think the clean, simple thought, "Those soldiers sacrificed their lives on my behalf." But the truth is it's far more wrenching than that. Their deaths were unnecessary and pointless. What a horrible horrible thought. It's certainly not my idea of patriotism.
 
America takes into itself every shade of philosophy and study.
That is why many an American doesn't recognize what is going on.

I have learned to cultivate a "natural-sense" as opposed to 'common sense' which is prone to conventionality and conventionalized myopia.
 
For years I've struggled with my feelings toward my home country, the U.S.A.

When I was a kid there were a lot of bumper stickers that said things like, "America, Love It or Leave It" and "My Country, Right or Wrong." I would see my uncle get teary-eyed listening to the Star Spangled Banner, I pledged allegiance to the flag every morning in school, and I was raised by my (liberal Democratic) parents to salute it when I'd see it in a parade.

But even as a young kid I never understood blind allegiance to something so fluid, multi-faceted and obviously flaw-riddled as a country (though I wasn't able to think it through quite that way). I felt bad or vaguely criminal for not wanting to defend America simply because it was where I was born. I felt there must be something wrong with me.

To this day I've never understood the "God Bless America" bumper stickers which imply that the U.S. is somehow a better country than others. When people say, "Well we may have our flaws, but we're still the greatest country in the world," I want to ask, "How would you know? Have you lived in other countries?"

I'm reminded that we're responsible for the greatest genocide (Native Americans) in history and that our country was made possible and founded upon it. I remember that we're the only country in history to have dropped not one but two nuclear bombs on civilian populations. Slavery. Internment camps. Jim Crow. The invasion of multiple sovereign nations. My Lai. Waterboarding. The list goes on.

Obviously, other countries have their own laundry list of historical horrors, but I don't think that any other proclaims its greatness so relentlessly. Other countries don't fly logos of their flags on their news stations or deride their politicians for not wearing a flag lapel pin.

How am I supposed to feel proud of a country that has used its awesome power and wealth to destroy so much?

I think of the things I do love, mostly people (Eleanor Roosevelt, Mark Twain, Studs Terkel, Martin Luther King...), but then I think of how Americans themselves stack up against many foreign populations I've come to know; we're more entitled, more acquisitive, and more reckless. I love the genius of what the Founding Fathers intended, but when people say things like, "I trust the wisdom of the American people," I think, "You mean the same American people who were led by the nose into Iraq and who gave Bush a 3,000,000 vote victory in 2004?

I'm not an America hater and I've given short shrift here to those things which do stand this country in a noble light. But I wonder how other people here define patriotism. If you love America, what, specifically do you love? How do you feel when you see an American flag waving in the breeze? Do you think America is the greatest country in the world and if so, why?

Non-Americans welcome to contribute, please.

I'm sorry that I'm late to this party, and without reading the other responses to this thread, please allow me to answer from the first post.

Several years ago I was driving a shuttle van from the United States Coast Guard base in San Juan, Puerto Rico to historic "Old San Juan."

Behind me were my C.O., and my X.O., and my X.O. asked, "Do Puerto Ricans consider themselves Americans first, or Puerto Ricans first?"

My C.O., who I admired and respected, knew that I was from Texas.

He responded, "Puerto Ricans are like Texans, they're Puerto Ricans FIRST, and Americans second. Just like Texans are Texans first and Americans second."

There is some truth behind his words.

However, my fellow American/Puerto Ricans don't share statehood status with me, despite being an American territory dating back to 1917.

There was a time when, your words here:

byro said:
I'm reminded that we're responsible for the greatest genocide (Native Americans) in history and that our country was made possible and founded upon it. I remember that we're the only country in history to have dropped not one but two nuclear bombs on civilian populations. Slavery. Internment camps. Jim Crow. The invasion of multiple sovereign nations. My Lai. Waterboarding. The list goes on.

..and to outline the truth behind them, would have been considered "Soviet Propaganda," or the very utterances of those truths as "Anti-American."

But hiding the truth doesn't make it a lie, but the omission of the truth makes it a sin.

Texas isn't so much a place, as it is a "State of Mind."

I think that the same can be said of America.

There are so many things that are wrong with the dichotomy of America.

But in my travels, especially within Latin America, whatever faults that my (and your country) may have, there is a certain dream and a hope for the potential that exists within our history, our founding Fathers, and most especially within our Constitution, that continues to make this "Great Experiment" fluid.

Anyone can own it.

Anyone can make it their own.

Yankees, Southerners, Texans, Puerto Ricans, immigrants, and those who hope one day to make America their home.

America isn't a "one size fits all" country, but rather a country of divergent cultures, histories, mind sets, and idealogies that, with all of our day to day contradictions, manages to survive without losing any of that, or having one becoming superior to the other.

I believe that it's not within us, as Americans, to allow that to happen.

America, and Americans cannot be defined.

We cannot be pigeon holed, and the only standard that we can be compared against is the standard that we set for ourselves.

We are not French, or English, or Spanish, we are American, and all that entails.

It doesn't make us better, or superior, or even necessarily different, but it makes us what we are; a threat to some, hypocrites to some, and a hope for something better for others. ..|

I think that sometimes, as Americans, we become self-conscious of who we are, compared to who we're supposed to be in our own eyes, and the eyes of the rest of the world, that we question whether or not any of our feelings about our home country are justified.

My apologies for any offenses that may have been rendered by my perspective on this topic.
 
This is something I've never understood. I have bottomless love and sorrow for the many many American service people who've been killed, maimed or tortured, as well as those who came back in one piece and certainly their families and friends. But when I look at the particular wars since WW II, I have to ask, "What did they sacrifice for?" Korea, Vietnam and Iraq have all been misguided (to use a gigantic euphemism) and nothing to do with "defending" America or preserving democracy in the U.S. So why were all those brave, frightened, beautiful people's lives shattered?

Yes of course we must support our troops, both while they're in harms way and when they come home, but to ask them to lay down their lives for Haliburton et al is vile. How is that patriotic? "Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" is worse than disingenuous, it's obscene. How does that reflect well on America? And how many more misguided wars will it take before eighteen year olds don't have to be killed -- not for me in my armchair, nor for democracy, but for the political expediency of multinational corporations and D.C. careerists.

I wish I could look at the flag and think the clean, simple thought, "Those soldiers sacrificed their lives on my behalf." But the truth is it's far more wrenching than that. Their deaths were unnecessary and pointless. What a horrible horrible thought. It's certainly not my idea of patriotism.

I wont argue with you. It is pointless. Unless you have earned something it is empty. I think the average American's understanding of the world is severely hampered by the blind faith that every society is like ours. I mean how bad could it be right? If you can not understand who the ultimate enemy was in any of the wars you mentioned then I can not explain it.
 
Wow!

Just when the constant petty sniping and nonsense were driving me away from this forum, this amazing thread draws me back. So much honesty and wisdom, such heartfelt discussion... I am almost drawn to tears by some of the responses in this thread.

Thankyou Byro, Lalo, Kulindahr, JackFTwist, mazda3boi, and all contributors. This thread really made me think.

Is America great? I think, at its heart, it truly is.

I am Australian, born and bred, and a patriotic Australian at that. But I have lived and worked a long way from home: 2 years in the UK, 2 years in the US, and 14 months in Saudi Arabia. What has it taught me?

I loved America - thinking of returning there soon - and all it has to offer. I have wonderful memories and lifelong friends from my travels there. But the US is such a dichotomy.


On my last trip to to New York 4 years ago, I came down with strep throat - we call it tonsillitis in Australia. (Probably had something to do with my previous week in Berlin, but that's another story. As a good friend of mine said: "Must have been someone you ate.") I realized it was happening on Sat afternoon, and asked the concierge of my hotel where to go. He told me I could go to an horrific emergency room for a lot of hours, or stick it out till Monday.

Thank God for the internet, I found a doctor on the upper east side open on a Sunday and got seen. I had travel insurance, but it required I payed for anything under a thousand dollars myself, to be reimbursed later. To be seen by a GP and buy basic antibiotics cost me almost $1000 US! Because I had limited cash, I had no choice but to cut my trip short and go straight home - if I had been hospitalized, I simply couldn't afford to pay.

I have needed to see a doctor in Australia, England, Amsterdam, Denmark and the US. (God, that's not as bad as it sounds...) The only time I've truly feared for my medical well-being was in the US, and purely because of finances. I am a reasonably affluent person in the scheme of the world. When I felt I had no recourse in the States, I knew I could find my way home to Australia and be medically looked after. But I can only imagine the horror that a sick and financially poor American citizen must feel when they know they are sick and cannot afford quality treatment.

In all the other nations I've needed to see a doctor, I paid an affordable fee for consultation and medication. In the UK and Denmark it was free.

I backpacked through the US in the mid nineties. A few things stand out.

I remember being at a McDonalds in Washington DC. Such an amazing city, best museums in the world (except the American Museum of Natural History in NY - my world favorite!) and being overwhelmed by such amazing history - the Wright Bros., Apollo spacecraft, you name it. This is one of the most amazing cities in the world.

So I'm traveling cheap, and buy some kind of coupon meal deal, and as I sit down a black guy sits down next to me. He has no visible white in his eyes, they are all red, filled with blood. He says " I am so sorry to ask you man, but can you spare some food?" For a moment I am confronted, and then I realize with horror that this guy, whatever his story, is far worse off than me. I pass him my whole meal, and get up to buy myself another. By the time I get back, my food and the guy have left.

I remember being in San Fran with a bunch of Irish guys. SF is a weird city, part of it so rich, but so many poor people in the streets. We're at Burger King, and this nicely dressed girl sits at our table to chat. The Irish guys think they're in, if you know what I mean. The girl asks one of them for his burger and he says no - she opens the bun and spits in it, then gets up and says "You rich fuckers are all the same."

At one point of the 2 year trip, I'm traveling through the south with some 19 yo English guys in a 32 foot Winnebago. (No great stories to tell... hot, very straight!) In New Orleans, we stay at the closest trailer park to the French Quarter. The manager informs us we are in the worst district of New Orleans, that if we hear gunfire we should lie in the Winnebago and shut up, that we should never leave the park in small groups after dark.

So one night, me and my buddies venture to the local 7-11 for snacks, and meet the locals. They were such great people, so friendly, so intrigued about Australia and England, so welcoming. We spent hours out there just talking and telling stories. When we asked them back to our trailer park, the security guy wouldn't let them in.

Toward the end of that trip, we got to LA and found a trailer park to put the winnebago. We rented a car to travel around LA, but a lady in a nearby trailer called Roberta invited us to her trailer for drinks. We visited every afternoon for a week, and she always served us beers and snacks. I begged her to take money, and on the day we were leaving we took our own box of beers, which she refused to take. I doubt she could afford to pay her rent at the park. I am ashamed typing this about her. I should have done something to help her out.

What's my point? It's taken me nearly an hour to type this post.

People are what make countries great. I despise what the US has done in the world in the past few years, but I know it has no relevance to true American people. War is waged by politicians, not by people.

But people have the power to change things. Politicians only have the power that people provide them with.

Are you happy with today's America? If you're not, what have you done to change it? Really?

You are the most powerful nation on Earth in so many ways. But that power belongs to the people, not to the politicians, if you only stand up and demand it. You won't be heard by typing on this forum, or telling your boyfriend.

Please. Change is needed. And the policies of the US are echoed in the policies of other nations, like mine. Stop bickering about petty words and stupid arguments. Demand answers. Talk about issues.

Americans can change the world. Every single one. Please, think and act carefully. We are counting on you.

It's time to stand up and make your voice heard. And you have to do it in person.
 
But people have the power to change things. Politicians only have the power that people provide them with.

You are the most powerful nation on Earth in so many ways. But that power belongs to the people, not to the politicians, if you only stand up and demand it. You won't be heard by typing on this forum, or telling your boyfriend.
I wish it were that simple. Our politicians don't seem to want to listen to the people they serve these days; they are out for their own interests, or the lobbyists' interests.

Please. Change is needed. And the policies of the US are echoed in the policies of other nations, like mine. Stop bickering about petty words and stupid arguments. Demand answers. Talk about issues.

Americans can change the world. Every single one. Please, think and act carefully. We are counting on you.

Amen.
 
My God, andysayshi, what a powerful post. First I felt like I was traveling with you across the country and experiencing what you experienced, then you pivot suddenly to "People are what make countries great," which instantly makes my eyes tear up, then you end with the roundhouse that is "Americans can change the world. Every single one. Please, think and act carefully. We are counting on you," which reminds me yet again of just how much responsibility one truly has an American, simply by virtue of our wealth and power.

I so appreciate the hour it took you to write this; believe me it wasn't wasted. Here's a hug from halfway across the globe.
 
Thank YOU, Byro, for such a great thread. I don't know if I really tied everything I was saying up, properly anyway.

America is such a mix of wonderful and horrible. I can stand in the middle of Times Square and marvel at the amazing nation that America is, but I can stand in Bumfuck Idaho and think I'm in the third world.

America has riches beyond belief, and yet many of its people are close to starving. While one percent of the US eats pheasant, 20 percent can barely afford to eat at all. While the US can spend trillions of dollars on a war that most Americans don't want, 50 million US citizens can't get the health care that most modern nations consider a basic human right.

While Americans argue about whether Hillary is racist or Obama is a closet Moslem, 2 MILLION Iraqis are without homes, without guarantee of food or shelter. And you, as Americans, are at least partially responsible.

Your media has failed you. Your politicians have failed you. What are you doing to change it? How are you demanding these wrongs be turned to rights?

What have you done, today, to tell your politicians that you want things to be better?
 
What have you done, today, to tell your politicians that you want things to be better?

A much needed kick in the ass. When all is said and done, all the talk in the world is finally masturbatory if you don't DO something. (Granted, this is a website devoted to the exalting of masturbation in every form, but...) After reading your post I wrote letters to the NY Times and my Democratic senator. That's not much but it's Day One.
 
Andy, Thanks for coming back to give us a chance. The post was brilliant and on the mark.

I think the reason there is so much petty bickering in this thread is because people truly care and want change. It is raw emotion that causes the anger. Then again some folks are good at cheap shots. In any event I am glad you add your two cents.

see yar ron
 
To non-Amercans, or rather non-USA folk, a lot of the 'God Bless America' and all that nationalism comes across as bombast, hype and hubris.

I rather like "god bless america" and all that "nationalism"

yeah

as do millions of americans

get used to it

:wave:
 
It will still be a great country as long as there are many people like you who are willing to look inside USA itself to find the problems and solve it, rather than blaming all the problems to some other countries not solving it.
 
I am - for a change - not going to make a political comment because what I say would be very nuanced and I'd get trashed.

I am very proud to see the flag go up for a gold medal at the Olympics, I chant "USA" when I see the video of USSR vs US in 1980 Olympics, and sometimes I look at the flag just on my own and think of all that it means, it really is quite beautiful. The fact that scoundrels have misused it and that bad things have been done it its name should not obscure the positive meanings in the flag.

God! I totally remember watching that moment live on TV when I was 12, like it was just yesterday. One of those moments in life where you remember exactly where you were.

J.P.
 
I am proud of my country.

I don't belive in blind patriotism. I don't believe that putting a bumper sticker on your car or wearing an American flag pin makes you a patriotic American. However, I do believe that knowing why you put bumper stickers on your cars and having the conviction to know why you wear an American flag pin, makes you patriotic.

Our past is sparsely littered with things that we can all agree are not proud moments. There are events in our history in which I wish our name was not associated. I don't think that it's right to only look at the negative. To have a fair, unbiased argument, you also have to look at all of the good that has come out of our country and the people in it.

I love America. I do believe that it is the greatest country in the world for the simple reason that I am an American and I love my country and its people. I'm always proud when I see our flag flying, and my heart always sinks when I see a veteran or hear the Star-Spangled Banner. I believe America is something worth fighting for and defending.
 
I love America. I do believe that it is the greatest country in the world for the simple reason that I am an American and I love my country and its people.
What an incredibly myopic view on the world. Have you ever been outside the borders of the US?

dwnsth said:
I'm always proud when I see our flag flying, and my heart always sinks when I see a veteran or hear the Star-Spangled Banner. I believe America is something worth fighting for and defending.
America IS worth fighting for, but right now we're fighting ourselves. Our values are skewed and we are now the bully on the playground. That was never America's role in the world, and I think the founders of this country would be appalled at what we've turned into over the past 50 years.
 
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