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Is Islam a danger for Western civilization?

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Adrusek81

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I was reading this article about a Muslim rapper calling for the kidnapping and murder of right wing Dutch MP Geert Wilders (who is indeed a xenophobe), and started thinking about how even the slightest challenge to Muslim precepts and "values" is met with accusations of xenophobia and racism at best, and calls for violence (and often, real violence), at worst.

While I do accept that Europe in particular is guilty of insidious and covert racism, I have often wondered how people who migrate to Europe in order to have access to the many advantages we enjoy (a well developed, wide-ranging and inclusive welfare state, excellent social services that range from free education and healthcare to government subventions for the poor, mostly equal rights, protection from discrimination and abuses, freedom of speech and association, electoral participation, etc), would be the first ones to try to destroy the very system that has allowed them to flourish away from totalitarian states the ideological tenets of which are akin to pre-Medieval Obscurantism and radical theocracy.

In addition, the rampant homophobia that we, as gay people, are exposed to from these rapidly expanding communities is a source of worry. We are not talking about the minor inconveniences caused by cultural differences, but a process of gradual invasion and religious-based radicalism that can have a nefarious effect on all of our lives.

Oh, and before anyone starts whining about me being racist, allow me to ask you: why is it that Hindu and Oriental immigrants easily adapt to their host countries while maintaining their own traditions and religious beliefs? You never, EVER hear about them causing any problems. On the other hand, Muslims behave as if we were all guilty for the Crusades (conveniently forgetting to mention their invasion of the Iberian peninsula and the constant warfare at the Balkans, which they still view as "their" usurped territories).

Are we in for a darker than usual future? I definitely think so.
 
Shouldn't this be in CE&P where there will be some posting restraint and "additional posting guidelines?" Otherwise,

:corn:
 
Actually, no. Why should people be denied the opportunity to express their opinion freely and justly wherever they want? We are not talking about people being allowed to say things such as "I hate sand monkeys/rag heads because they are all terrorists, their women are all covered up and they speak with funny accents". This is a genuine issue that affects us all and yes, we are allowed to be angry about it and openly challenge those who put our well being in danger.
 
I find the very thought of a "Muslim Rapper" a bit more than I can wrap my head around.

Wouldn't rapping be emulating a culture they despise?
 
Here we approach the dichotomy between the Islam that Mohammed taught (at least so far as my reading has led me to understand it) and the way in which many express it today. Unfortunately many have made modern Islam a contagion, but then the same might be said of Western religionists.
 
I have thought about this a lot over the years and I force myself to evolve on the subject before the inevitable happens...that Muslims will soon replace gays as the threat to...well...everything. Fear is a favorite tool of TPTB at any given moment in time and it is easy to be afraid of people who we don't understand...or do we actually understand them?

Here in Silicon Valley there has been a long battle in the unincorporated town of San Martin where liberals and conservatives became cozy bedfellows as they opposed the purchase of a large piece of land by Muslims who want to build a Muslim compound with homes, schools, mosques...

I have to admit I find it creepy as well...but I would find it equally creepy if it was a Baptist compound.

I think any religious extremism is a very real and dangerous threat for all civilization so in that respect I agree that the Muslim extremists are definitely a danger.

There is good news though and something I rarely hear anyone discuss. In my search for information a few years back I discovered that Muslim college students and under 30s in general here in the US support marriage equality with high percentages and this is consistent with other groups in the same age range across the board.
 
Stereotyping people raises the risk of condemning an entire community simply because their religion is the same as the criminal who has just exploded a bomb that killed ten innocent people in our local town square....in the name of their cause....

When the IRA was conducting its campaign of terror throughout Ireland, and Britain there were collections being made to support this "cause" on the streets of New York, and Boston...by The Northern Aid Committee...immediately after 9/11 these collections were banned.

That there are gay men....bug chasers...deliberately infecting one, another with HIV should we label all gay men..self destructive?

My experiences with Muslim men here in Greece over many years has been very positive, and sexually rewarding....I've yet to meet a solitary Islamist determined to convert me to his "cause" .....all were happy to discuss their Muslim traditions with me...but none proffered extremist political opinions.

That extremist Irish republican groups continue to remain a threat to life in Ireland, and Britain should we condemn all Irish people as potential terrorists...particularly, those who are Catholic....or, is stereotyping merely a reminder that scapegoats are easily led to the gas chamber as were Jews, Gays, and Gypsies during the Nazi Holocaust for being nothing more than scapegoats?
 
So why does everyone ragtag on muslims for wanting their beliefs to be pronounced as if they're special, when christians do it every single fucking day?

And btw, it's Asians, not Orientals. If you don't want to be seen as racist, try as least not using outdated racist terminology.
 
MoufOfKhaos said:
..........................If you don't want to be seen as racist, try as least not using outdated racist terminology.
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I think that is a little unfair as reading his post I see the genuine expression of an innate anxiety experienced by many people who feel that they are unable to state a genuine point of view without being insulted as racists.

It is certainly a question that at least both French and British societies are going to have to face up to in the near future.
 
How exactly is it unfair to address the usage of the word oriental in his preemptive strike to not be seen as coming from a place steeped in racial agenda? He said he didn't want to be seen as racist, I commented on a term that is seen as such without negating the rest of his post.

As far as the French and British, yes, we've seen how dealing with the problem can go - with the French banning the burqa, or at least attempting to(I'm sure you know the real answer to that, seeing as you live there) - and frankly, that's not the answer to the "problem".
 
No, Asians are from Indian sub-continent and Sri Lanka. Occasionally, people from the area comprised between the Tigris and Indus rivers are also called Asians. On the other hand, Oriental people are those who reside beyond the Ganges.

Second, Christianity IS a part of our culture, whether we like it or not. Moreover, I don't know how it is wherever you live, but at least in most European countries, Christians who make inappropriate/unnecessary displays of devotion or ask for people to modify their behaviour to suit their beliefs, are met with open disdain from everyone. Yes, I am sure that there are a few extremist Christian groups (like the Opus Dei, the American Evangelicals and Mormons), who want society to change in their favour, but they are the object of extreme derision.

EastofEden, gay people never wanted to implement sharia law, modify any constitutions to align them with the precepts written in the Koran, ask for their detractors to be kidnapped or murdered, actually kidnap or murder anyone who doesn't dress, live or believe what they think is right, promulgated that our belief system must conquer the rest of the world, make it the duty of every gay person to murder intellectuals and writers who challenge our points of view, ask for segregation of genders, organize a riot and burn cars and buildings whenever someone criticized us, etc. We ARE victims and we only ask for equal rights and opportunities, as well as protection from the discrimination and unfair/violent treatment of which we have been object in a constant manner throughout history.

Gay people are not the ones breeding like crazy and proudly declaring that they will soon be politically powerful enough to change things to their liking, as they have done in Spain and France. So no, this isn't mere fear mongering and racism. This is a very real issue and widespread radicalism is far more common among Muslims than anyone thinks.

The only thing I find surprising is that the young among them would support marriage equality... This is not so in the UK, or most of Europe.

Kallipolis, my dear, the Irish conflict is one stemming from the misappropriation of an entire province by the British government and its integration into the UK, not the desire to impose a religion while hiding behind cries of "racism! xenophobia! Islamophobia!". Have you actually worked with Muslims, as opposed to sleeping around with their closet cases and creepy married bisexual members? I have taught them English and Maths in adult courses, and the notion of the welcoming, compassionate, generous Muslim is a fallacy.

Also, HIV positive men who deliberately infect others without their knowledge are committing a CRIME, and the gay community supports the implementation of legislation that would punish those who knowingly harm others just out of perversity. You don't see gay people saying "oh, you homophobes want to punish us because bug-chasing is part of our way of life and deeply ingrained in our belief system!". Your examples are simplistic, inadequate and unfair.
 
Any fanatical religion is a danger to civilization---religious freaks in this country have been holding us back here for years.
 
Adrusek81 said:
Oh, and before anyone starts whining about me being racist, allow me to ask you: why is it that Hindu and Oriental immigrants easily adapt to their host countries while maintaining their own traditions and religious beliefs? You never, EVER hear about them causing any problems.
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You forget too quickly.
 
It is an extremely difficult subject for discussion exactly because of this underlying supposition of racism.

From the little reading and some TV coverage I have seen it seems to me that there is a general concern over the gradual Islamisation of France and England. Whether expressing such a concern makes you racist I don't know. Can I be a racist in thought but not in action?
 
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dpnice said:
It is an extremely difficult subject for discussion exactly because of this underlying supposition of racism.

From the little reading and some TV coverage I have seen it seems to me that there is a general concern over the gradual Islamisation of France and England. Whether expressing such a concern makes you racist I don't know. Can I be a racist in thought but not in action?
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No worries. Islam is not a race.
 
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