Is Islam a danger for Western civilization?

[bort138]

Timothy McVeigh's ideology should also be open to criticism for it led him, and his associates to commit an act of terrorism....

Should we assume that McVeigh's skin pigmentation, eye colour and religious culture...Christian...should be a cause for our concern?

Of course not....for McVeigh was motivated by a particular ideology...likewise, those who were responsible for 9/11....

Most Christians do not commit acts of terror....most Muslims do not commit acts of terror.....most atheists do not commit acts of terror.

You can stop bringing up immutable characteristics like skin and eye color in this discussion as these characteristics have absolutely nothing to do with what individuals think or believe. Beliefs are acted upon and do have consequences. Yes, most Muslims are not violent but that doesn't mean that Islam has never motivated anyone to commit violence.

 

[kallipolis]

You can stop bringing up immutable characteristics like skin and eye color in this discussion as these characteristics have absolutely nothing to do with what individuals think or believe. Beliefs are acted upon and do have consequences. Yes, most Muslims are not violent but that doesn't mean that Islam has never motivated anyone to commit violence.

I agree...nor is the religous culture of terrorists....for McVeigh's Christian culture did not drive him to commit the Oklahoma City bombing....anymore than the 9/11 terrorists were driven by their Muslim culture to bomb.....

Ideology was definitely the driving force behind 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombings...with skin pigmentation, eye colouring and the terrorists religious culture of no consequence......

 

[Kulindahr]

Lilbit is trying to mock me.

Lilbit is suggesting that the act of murder on September 11th was just an aberration. He says we must turn a blind eye to it and all the other bombings across the world.

Citation, or admit you're making crap up.

 

[Kulindahr]

I can read you like a book.

So tell us his table of contents.

 

[Negasta]

Just look at any country where Muslims call the shots.

Judging by the ample evidence on offer, a can come to no conclusion other than that the spread of Islamic influence in the West must be resisted with all reasonable measures.

 

[Kulindahr]

Just look at any country where Muslims call the shots.

Judging by the ample evidence on offer, a can come to no conclusion other than that the spread of Islamic influence in the West must be resisted with all reasonable measures.

A distinction has to be made between "Muslims" and "Islamic". Muslims are by and large content to live within the parameters of whatever country they're in; Islamic is an ideology that thinks everyone should be just like them.

 

[pat grimshaw]

Citation, or admit you're making crap up.

You're not paying attention.

So tell us his table of contents.

1. Employed to hang around with hipsters, middle-class-rebels and teenagers (i.e. humans with still unformed brains)

2. Realizing that keeping them happy keeps him popular and keeps him employed

3. Etc, etc, …


/ / / / / / Breaking news / / / / It's happening now / / / / / /

The Taliban is targeting those Westerners who have sticking their noses into their tribal affairs. Fair enough, I suppose

 

[LilBit]

1. Employed to hang around with hipsters, middle-class-rebels and teenagers (i.e. humans with still unformed brains)

2. Realizing that keeping them happy keeps him popular and keeps him employed

3. Etc, etc, …

As always, you're talking out your ass. You know NOTHING about my students, and you've pretty grossly mischaracterized them. Your second point is also entirely false.

With every post, you just continue to demonstrate that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

 

[figjam]

....While I do accept that Europe in particular is guilty of insidious and covert racism....

Wow! - then you say

In addition, the rampant homophobia that we, as gay people, are exposed to ....

So many thoughts are passing through my head..... I am dumbfounded. Is this a typical ignorant North American train of thought or are there some substance to be found here?

 

[Kulindahr]

You're not paying attention.

So, you're just making stuff up.

1. Employed to hang around with hipsters, middle-class-rebels and teenagers (i.e. humans with still unformed brains)

He hangs around with you?

 

[pat grimshaw]

…

How eloquent for a man of your years.

 

[pat grimshaw]

..... I am dumbfounded. Is this a typical ignorant North American train of thought or are there some substance to be found here?

The OP isn't North American.

 

[Adrusek81]

Wow! - then you say


So many thoughts are passing through my head..... I am dumbfounded. Is this a typical ignorant North American train of thought or are there some substance to be found here?

And what is exactly ignorant about acknowledging the fact that, while there are extreme racism and xenophobia in Europe (and there are, but they are hypocritically and dishonestly denied), and we gay people are exposed to homophobia from the general population, considerable problems emerge from the presence of large Muslim populations in many countries that cannot be explained away with racism, and that many of our most virulent and violent opponents are Muslim?

I am not denying that there are moderate followers of Islam and I am not pretending that every single Muslim hides a potential terrorist. Moreover, the radicalization of underprivileged youths who have Northern African, Middle Eastern and Asian origins does have a certain degree of relation to extreme discrimination and both social and cultural alienation; still, it's also true that the values of Islam are profoundly at odds with secular Western values, and the atrocities of the Church (which is mostly neutralized and loses credibility with every passing day, even if it still holds considerable power) cannot be used to justify the permissiveness with which many members of these communities are treated, due to their increasing political power and the support that they receive from Saudi Arabia.

Finally, I'd like to ask you why do you consider, as many others here appear to do, that any divergent discourses from what is deemed politically correct are to be answered with vaguely dismissive answers? So, i am either ignorant or under the influence of a mind-altering substance just because you do not agree with me? So, what arguments do you offer beyond an adolescent dismissal?

Apparently, if we are to believe some of the arguments presented in this thread, maturity isn't correlated to "intelligence" and "knowledge".

 

[pat grimshaw]

...Finally, I'd like to ask you why do you consider, as many others here appear to do, that any divergent discourses from what is deemed politically correct are to be answered with vaguely dismissive answers? So, i am either ignorant or under the influence of a mind-altering substance just because you do not agree with me? So, what arguments do you offer beyond an adolescent dismissal?
...

Adrusek81, most of the loudest JUBbers are Americans who don't realise what's happening outside of America. They say that the Boston bombings and the Trade Centre bombings are just isolated, unpleasant incidents and polite PC people shouldn't talk unpleasant things.

 

[Adrusek81]

Adrusek81, most of the loudest JUBbers are Americans who don't realise what's happening outside of America. They say that the Boston bombings and the Trade Centre bombings are just isolated, unpleasant incidents and polite PC people shouldn't talk unpleasant things.

And therein lies the problem. The critical discourse of certain ideologies and religions, and the communities that profess them, is instantly slapped with a "Far Right" label designed to keep everyone down. Either you are quiet, you extol a failed multicultural system that hasn't succeeded because there is no real integration and no one seems to care as long as everything looks pretty on the outside, or you are called anything from stupid and ignorant to a neo-Nazi.

However, I have to say that it isn't just Americans who are clueless. Many middle class European people who have never had any contact with a Muslim and are happy to keep minorities isolated, become hysterical whenever you say that there is a problem, because apparently the word problem and "let's exterminate them" are synonyms. The only difference is that America is much bigger and its strict immigration policies have prevented a massive influx of Islamic groups. In that regard, American people can be excused, because they do not know the real extent of these problems. On the other hand, European people just bury their heads in the sand and hope for the best, while disaffected youths who are treated like foreigners in their own countries swell the ranks of these radical groups, which are becoming ever more present and are never, ever condemned by the wider Muslim community.

Sadly, political correctness is a double-edged sword that can be used to protect the vulnerable, or trap everybody into a world of glib courtesy and condescension.

 

[Kulindahr]

Adrusek81, most of the loudest JUBbers are Americans who don't realise what's happening outside of America. They say that the Boston bombings and the Trade Centre bombings are just isolated, unpleasant incidents and polite PC people shouldn't talk unpleasant things.

To a great extent that's because our bizarre right wing refuses to allow any discussion of the fact that the US in its foreign policy and actions pissed people off enough to make those attacks. They pounce on anyone who diverges from the fantasy that we were attacked because they envy our freedoms, or some such tripe. The US was attacked because it engaged in arrogance and betrayal, abandoning people who thought we were friends, treating them as tools.

But anyone who points out the truth gets vilified as "anti-American".

 

[Kulindahr]

BTW, sometimes I think that western civilization is its own greatest enemy.

 

[pat grimshaw]

To a great extent that's because our bizarre right wing refuses to allow any discussion of the fact that the US in its foreign policy and actions pissed people off enough to make those attacks. They pounce on anyone who diverges from the fantasy that we were attacked because they envy our freedoms, or some such tripe. The US was attacked because it engaged in arrogance and betrayal, abandoning people who thought we were friends, treating them as tools.

But anyone who points out the truth gets vilified as "anti-American".

I am sorry I can't read that post because it seems to be talking about your own country's internal tribal hatreds. The topic is about the tribal hatreds of people from the Middle East etc who EXPORT their hatreds to innocent people in my country and Europe.

 

[LilBit]

I think it's cute that you think that Ive never met a Muslim and that I have no idea what's going on outside the US. With every new post you just expose your cluelessness and bigotry.

 

[pat grimshaw]

....

OOH yes. Shake that finger

Let me guess. You've met the nice, homogenised, pasteurised safe ones. You haven't met the raw tribal ones yet—