Is It Wrong?

[versatileplayer]

Cheating is wrong, always.

If a guy has an arrangement with his partner whereby they are permissive of being with others occasionally, no problem, otherwise, going behind a loved ones back is wrong.

Wrong for the one doing the cheating - absolutely - honesty is the best policy.

 

[blackbeltninja]

This is the heart of the issue. How can one claim to respect commitment in one breath while in another be assisting a second individual break his/her commitment to a third party?

I disagree.

That's like saying if you get out of the way of someone who is speeding, you're aiding and abetting them in breaking the law, or if you stop because you see someone running a red light and don't want to get killed by them, you're assisting them.

As Mitchymo said, I would not cheat if I were married. If someone else married cheats with me while I am single, that is her/his problem.

-d-

 

[bankside]

It is wrong to sleep with someone else when you have agreed to monogamy. If you are in a relationship with someone, monogamy is the default. You can come up with your own open arrangement if you want to, but that's already advanced enough that you might not need our advice.

It is also wrong to sleep with someone who has agreed to be monogamous with someone else. You aren't just a "free agent" who can do whatever. It is your ethical problem to be sleeping with a cheater.

 

[easyroad]

That's like saying if you get out of the way of someone who is speeding, you're aiding and abetting them in breaking the law, or if you stop because you see someone running a red light and don't want to get killed by them, you're assisting them.

This is one of the most bizarre comparisons I've ever seen. I can't imagine this ever making sense.

Yeah, I'm ready to take a side now. Sorry, but this point of view mitchymo et al. are defending sounds to me like an immature attempt to escape responsibility. Sure, the other guy is the cheater, but even in a relationship that shouldn't happen there are TWO people involved. You may not be guilty of the married person's crime, but it doesn't make you look any good either. It's an inconsiderate and selfish (not to mention immoral) thing to do, getting involved with a married person.

 

[stevexxx]

His wife is apparently alrright with the situation, as she dropped him off at our last motel hook-up and even came inside to introduce herself to me (which was totally awkward).

Now am I solely and knowingly shattering a family unit irreparably? The answer is a resounding, "NO!" I got a phone call today from the wife thanking me for his renewed interest in sex, and even invited me to a 3-way, which I immediately, but respectfully declined.

hahaha you are lying your ass off, you said before that he kept it on the down low and didnt want his wife to know. and now all of a sudden, the husband told his wife," hey im cheating on you with some dude". wife response, " let me call him and thank him that's awesome." i may be young but i aint no dip shit. sprry but im not buying what you are selling.

 

[csm123]

mitchymo has it 100% spot on in my opinion.If someone says that they have an open relationship,you dont know if it a lie,so basicaly means nothing.What goes on between him and his partner is there business to sort out because if one or both are actualy cheating they obviously have issues.

Just worth thinking before getting emotianaly involved with a cheat,if he cheated to be with you,he WILL cheat on you!

 

[Willie Boy]

I respect fully what fidelity means, which is why I would never be a cheat on anyone who i was with, marriage is irrelevant, the rule applies to anyone who i was simply seeing as a partner. I am responsible for my own actions and nobody elses, so if someone else is going to cheat, then a) that is their responsibility and b) it means the fidelity which i respect is already a failure as far as their relationship which they are in is concerned, otherwise they wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

But, by getting with someone who IS married, you become a participant in his actions. You are enabling him at the least. You are responsible for the actions in which you participate (you have already so stated), and in participating in his cheating, you are also culpable.

So as far as escaping responsibility goes, there is frankly NO responsibility as far as the third party is concerned, a marriage (or fidelity which is in fact the actual issue) is the responsibility of ONLY those within the marriage/relationship.
The only exception to this as far as i'm concerned is when you are being approached by the lover of a friend or family member where you don't have a responsibility towards their relationships but you do have a responsibility to do right by your own loved ones, so getting involved with your best mates or brothers partner for example would indeed be immoral.

So... Its ok to help someone cheat... as long as a loved one/family member isn't involved?

UTTER FAIL EXCUSE.

 

[BINOWGAYLATER]

okay - i read most of this -- but anyway - kinda from the other side of the fence --- i'm on record..

I don't fool around (with guys or gals)
Never have, never will.

I made a committment to be faithful and I've stuck to it - wrecking my marriage is not worth an hour or so of "lust". not to mention hurting her. (and no, being here is not cheating ) --

so much as i would like to live my "siggie" (and some other stuff) it ain't gonna happen. and I'm lucky enuff to have friends here who understand that and some of them actually appreciate it.

 

[Willie Boy]

It is not a crime to even cheat let alone be involved in someone else doing so. It is all about the morality. For me, it is not immoral to be involved with someone else regardless of their relationship status, if they are involving themselves with me then it is because their relationship has already gone wrong, trying to suggest that i am in some way helping that failure is disingenuous. If i am free and single then i am available to whoever, with exception of, as i stated, those involved with friends or family, because i have a resonsibility to my relationships with those, it would then be immoral in my own mind. My only responsibility is for my loved ones, family, friends, colleagues and neighbours. I can't be made to feel guilty because 'Joe Smith' who i might be seeing is married or in a relationship with 'Jane Smith' who i don't know from adam. All that i would know, is that Joe and Janes relationship is a failure and that i can't set that right by simply declining any involvement, nor can i ruin it any further by getting involved.

Yes, it is a failure because of your actions. It would be with you he cheated. Your actions are what facilitated the cheating. You have already acknowledged responsibility for your actions, you can't backstep that now just because you want an excuse. And that is all it would be...

And a useless utter failure of one at that.

 

[easyroad]

For me, it is not immoral to be involved with someone else regardless of their relationship status, if they are involving themselves with me then it is because their relationship has already gone wrong, trying to suggest that i am in some way helping that failure is disingenuous. (...) All that i would know, is that Joe and Janes relationship is a failure and that i can't set that right by simply declining any involvement, nor can i ruin it any further by getting involved.

But they're still in a relationship. A moral person would point out why it's wrong to keep this going and say they should only continue once the commitment is completely over.

Also, responsibility for your own actions, which is what I meant on my last post, is not only about taking the blame. It's about knowing that your actions have consequences on people other than yourself (and your lover too, I might add).

In conclusion: I agree with you in that a person who fools around with someone who's married is not to blame for the latter's crime. However, that person can't escape from the fact that his/her actions are inconsiderate and selfish.

(And immoral in some circles)

 

[bankside]

mitchmo, the duty you feel toward your family and friends is in fact a duty towards everyone. A person can't knowingly carry on with someone who is lying to someone else about fidelity without sinking to the same level.

I hope you're wrong about one side of this debate convincing the other, but in the end that's not an issue as to the morality of it. Plenty of people don't understand their responsibilities toward one another. Those who would fuck over a stranger who doesn't know that his relationship has failed, by sleeping with the partner of that stranger, are just no better than the cheater.

 

[Aguy666]

It is only ok if done under all of the following conditions:
1. You think you're genuinely attracted to men in general.
2. You think you're genuinely not attracted to women in general.
3. You only do it once or twice in order to reach a conclusion about how you feel about your attraction with respect to men and women.

It can only be for information gathering purposes, so that you and your wife are not trapped in a 'loveless' marriage. Anything more is just an abuse of trust and amoral for all parties knowingly involved, in my opinion.

 

[Willie Boy]

I assume you mean respect. It's not respect which is decisive in this tho, its loyalty.

As such, i would never cheat on someone myself, nor would i involve myself with someone who was involved with a family member or friend.

I feel no need to respect a partnership between two strangers which is a failure already and so guilt is lacking. Yes it can be considered selfish, but immoral is not how i see it. You can't tar 3rd parties with the same brush as the cheat, they're can be no convincing me otherwise and i'm sure that others out there may take the same approach.

Ah, but it doesn't become a failure until you step in and help one side cheat. It is you act which causes the relationship to fail. It may be rocky beforehand. They may have issues, but those CAN be worked out, if both parties are willing. But if one side cheats, the trust is lost. It can not be repaired at that point (how can you trust one who has proven him/herself untrustworthy).

There are plenty of fish in the sea, why take part in destroying a family for a mere bit of pleasure that can be found elsewhere?

 

[easyroad]

Yeah, as you said, we clearly have different views on morality, so we should just agree to disagree. I'd like, however, to make a few comments:

As for being inconsiderate, is it any less inconsiderate to try to break up the relationship fully before carrying on?
The 3rd party is never involved with the intent of being a 'marriage wrecker', thats not the 3rd parties business. I could ask why a cheat was cheating and i could encourage them to sort out any problem that they have, but it has to be up to them to take responsibility of the situation because i, if i'm single, don't owe anything to anyone else if they happen to be a total stranger.

"You should totally work things out with your wife and not see other people until you're divorced... oh, you want to fuck me? OK."

In my opinion, a moral person can't have it both ways. If (s)he's gonna talk the talk, (s)he must also be able to walk the walk. Sending mixed messages in this case is acting like a hypocrite.

So, yes, perhaps it is selfish and inconsiderate, but such is human nature, its not however immoral as far as i'm concerned regardless that others may have that view that it is.

I like to think that human nature is better than that. Maybe I'm being idealistic, but I don't care. It's probably another area in which we disagree.

 

[yummylongsword]

Easyroad, morality is a subjective thing. You may look at the stance i take and think it is still being immoral, i obviously do not because i take a different view on the issue.
I respect fully what fidelity means, which is why I would never be a cheat on anyone who i was with, marriage is irrelevant, the rule applies to anyone who i was simply seeing as a partner. I am responsible for my own actions and nobody elses, so if someone else is going to cheat, then a) that is their responsibility and b) it means the fidelity which i respect is already a failure as far as their relationship which they are in is concerned, otherwise they wouldn't be cheating in the first place.

So as far as escaping responsibility goes, there is frankly NO responsibility as far as the third party is concerned, a marriage (or fidelity which is in fact the actual issue) is the responsibility of ONLY those within the marriage/relationship.
The only exception to this as far as i'm concerned is when you are being approached by the lover of a friend or family member where you don't have a responsibility towards their relationships but you do have a responsibility to do right by your own loved ones, so getting involved with your best mates or brothers partner for example would indeed be immoral.

Every human being has a responsibility to protect others from harm if possible, imo. There are levels of what you're willing to give up for someone, however. Is it morally wrong not to kill yourself to save a stranger? In my opinion, that's too much of a sacrifice. Is it morally wrong to engage in a relationship with a cheating person? You're not losing anything from ending it except for some sex, which you can get anywhere... but you could be saving a relationship or family. I believe that's a tradeoff worth making.

You could think differently, though. It's not a matter of whether or not you have responsibility though, because you do. It's whether or not you're willing to give up your own pleasure to benefit someone else.

 

[stevexxx]

It is not a crime to even cheat let alone be involved in someone else doing so. It is all about the morality. For me, it is not immoral to be involved with someone else regardless of their relationship status, if they are involving themselves with me then it is because their relationship has already gone wrong, trying to suggest that i am in some way helping that failure is disingenuous. If i am free and single then i am available to whoever, with exception of, as i stated, those involved with friends or family, because i have a resonsibility to my relationships with those, it would then be immoral in my own mind. My only responsibility is for my loved ones, family, friends, colleagues and neighbours. I can't be made to feel guilty because 'Joe Smith' who i might be seeing is married or in a relationship with 'Jane Smith' who i don't know from adam. All that i would know, is that Joe and Janes relationship is a failure and that i can't set that right by simply declining any involvement, nor can i ruin it any further by getting involved.


There is no fail excuse here, my friends and family are MY responsibility to do right by, so there is absolutely a difference between involving myself with someone involved with anyone i know, than there is with anyone i don't.

haha so if the wife comes to your house telling you to stop seeing her husband, you would say, " i not making him cheat, he is".

 

[Lefty]

What about the person that has a partner they are very deeply involved with
but that 'partner' has zero interest in an activity that the other one enjoys?

Should the one do without because the other does not like it? Should one go
along even though the activity is anathema to one?

Say your best friend loves auto races, you hate them with a passion. Do you go
anyway or dump the best friend....or compromise?

And yes, this is not one of my smart ass remark posts. I would appreciate well
thought out constructive thought positive or negative. Well thought out is the
key here, not moralistic bible thumping or rhetoric.

Sincerely,

Lefty

 

[easyroad]

What about the person that has a partner they are very deeply involved with
but that 'partner' has zero interest in an activity that the other one enjoys?

Should the one do without because the other does not like it? Should one go
along even though the activity is anathema to one?

Say your best friend loves auto races, you hate them with a passion. Do you go
anyway or dump the best friend....or compromise?

And yes, this is not one of my smart ass remark posts. I would appreciate well
thought out constructive thought positive or negative. Well thought out is the
key here, not moralistic bible thumping or rhetoric.

Sincerely,

Lefty

Here is what this person shouldn't do: practice said activity behind the other's back. Honesty is the key. Who knows, the other might be open minded enough to make a compromise. But if it's impossible for the partner to accept it, you have to respect that. Divorce her/him if it makes you unhappy, but to cheat and lie, that is unacceptable.

 

[Lefty]

That is my point.

Spoken/unspoken agreements

are a part of compromise. To

know is one thing, to flaunt is

another JMHO.

 

[easyroad]

What hypocrisy are you talking about, the message is perfectly clear, fucking them or not, you state its wrong, the rest is up to them, its their responsibility, not mine.

No, it's not perfectly clear. What good is it to say "don't have sex with someone while you're married" if you're willing to participate with him in doing the same thing you just told him he shouldn't? It takes two to have sex, you know, and you're a human being, not a Real Doll

It's like parenting: how can you expect your child not to say bad words when you swear all the time in the living room? You lose your authority. It's like you don't mean the things you say. You're just lecturing for the sake of it.

If you're willing to participate in sex, you're showing the guy that you don't give a damn one way or another as long as you get some, thus contradicting yourself. Pure hypocrisy.

***

("Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie." --- Wikipedia)