Is It Wrong?

[Willie Boy]

I think we all are missing a point here... I've read everything till now and it seemed to me that most of the time the people's intention was to blame the third part as the guilty one, instead of the cheater... Nothing more on this issue, it was only a commentary.

I hate to say it, but you are the one who has missed the point. We blame the cheater, that's a given. But we were also saying that the "other man" was also responsible. If it weren't for him the husband would be cheating with himself, and jacking off isn't really cheating.

But going back to the point: I have a friend of mine, married, who happens to "date" a guy, also married. Both of them told me that the marriage was not that good, that their wives had become uninterested on them - one right after the second child was born, another one after the 2 first years of marriage came to terms. I once asked them - BOTH of them - the question that many of you have made here: "Why don't you divorce to be with each other?".

Are you sure the wives weren't interested, or was it maybe the other way around? At least until the wives gave up?

Hasn't anybody here considered the possibility that a man, sometimes, IS unhappy in his marriage, but doesn't have the guts to divorce

That does not give him license to cheat. He needs to come clean, be honest with his wife. Maybe they could seek counseling to see if they could put the fire back in their marriage. If not maybe they could agree to divorce, but remain friends, that way he can remain close to his children and not feel trapped in a relationship that is dead.

 

[Willie Boy]

The wife is a too easy alibi to castrate guys.

What does that mean?

 

[easyroad]

Marriage has no relevance, too much emphasis is in this thread about marriage, as opposed to partnerships. Cheating on your husband or wife is no worse than cheating on your boyfriend or g/f. (unless of course you are of a religious persuasion who see marriage as a whole lot more sacrasanct)

Marriage is not what i would consider to be a contract either, it is more a legal declaration. If it was a crime, there would be a punishment, there isn't, so i guess its not.

A "crime" in the metaphorical sense. You're walking all over something that has value to a bunch of people out of selfishness and getting some.

There obviously is no being oblivious, it doesn't change anything, all you are aware is that the person is not free like you to do what they like with whoever, and that what they are doing is wrong. You don't know the goings on of the relationship except what their explanation might be for their behaviour and you are aware that their partner could get hurt emotionally from the discovery of any affair. Knowing that the person is in a relationship before you sleep with them creates guilt because you know you would be involved in somebody elses immorality, and that doesn't automatically make the 3rd party immoral.

So a person can have all that in mind and still don't give a fuck? Impressive.

Yep, I'd still say the person is immoral. Not for the reason you pointed out though (being a part of someone else's immorality), but because the 3rd party doesn't give a fuck about an agreement that's about to be broken and one of those involved doesn't even know of it yet.

I accept that it is fair to say that a 3rd party is more than just 'aware', that they are an 'enabler', so my analogy could be considered weak, but it bears little relevance in the great scheme of things because a cheat is unfaithful BEFORE they carry out a physical act with someone. If you want to look at it like a crime, its rarely a warm blooded occurence, they usually have plenty of time to contemplate their actions, and so the immorality of being unfaithful begins before any 3rd party even becomes involved.

Let's examine this point you're trying to make: you're saying that the cheater's unfaithful before the physical act? Really? Tell me, when does it cross the line? Conversation? Introduction? Thinking about it?

That seems like a stretch to me.

So you are generalising? You are not considering the exceptions?
Are we supposed to be naive, to believe that any problem existing in a relationship has been ignored? The problem that damages the relationship is not that your partner cheats on you with a total stranger, its that they cannot be trusted. Most of us recognise that an affair is symbolic of that and we would quite honestly be foolish perhaps not to end the relationship.
In the end, it might cause heartache to begin with, but it would be for the better ultimately.

No, I meant exceptions like cases when the wife's ok with her bisexual husband sleeping with men. Like the "perfect scenarios" brought up by Lefty. I was not talking about problems being ignored.

Also, what would be for the better is saying outright that the relationship should end and why, not getting off behind the other person's back.

An absence of trust, an absence of respect, an abscence of caring. Yeah, that's a working relationship.

Again: who are you to judge the relationship? And how isn't that malicious?

 

[easyroad]

There is no more selfishness in a 3rd party involvement than of a person who expects everyone else to keep their hands off their partner because they belong to them, they don't, people are not property. Sure there is the respecting other people's relationships, but the ones worth respecting are those of people you know, this is because you have a loyalty to those who you know.

Here is where we differ. I think this point of view is despicable.

If some guy or gal doesn't respect their own relationship, then, a) why should i ? and then b) it doesn't look like its a relationship thats going to work in the end, affair or not.

Again with the judging...

I'm an observer, just like you. Why do you consider me to be a judge?
And their is no intent of malice is why its not malicious.

You're a judge because you're considering their relationship to be a failure. And it's malicious because you're seeing it in the worst light possible for your own interests.

And now I'll tell you why I pointed this out: because it's not up to you to decide if the relationship is working or not. You're not a part of it. Your judgement of the cheater's character doesn't make the relationship doomed - and it most certainly does not give you a free pass to fuck him.

Having knowledge that a situation is bleak for someone else is hardly a strong enough reasoning to forego your own enjoyment of life. If that can be considered selfish, then why not invite a homeless person to stay the night? Or donate half your wage to a charity because the money would feed a whole village in the third world for a month. Or allow the elderly person in the queue to go before you because they are old. If you have to consider the strangers around you all the time, then almost everything you do can be considered selfish. So where exactly is the immorality in this selfishness?

Cute stretching you just did. It's not about having the weight of the world on your shoulders, it's about respect. Something that goes (or at least should go) beyond those you know.

This depends on two things. One is when the cheat starts contemplating (seriously) getting involved with someone else, and the other is where you might view the line as an individual. You might view it from the point of committing the sexual act, i view it from the point of heavy flirting or going out for drinks with a new friend despite telling their partner they are having a business meeting, thus the lieing is the indicator of their intent to commit to their act of being unfaithful.

So you're saying that if the guy is flirting with you, then he's already cheating on his wife and his relationship is doomed, so you might as well fuck him? Ok, gotcha.

 

[iwantbig]

It's wrong

 

[stevexxx]

mitchymo: you are considering the married dude's relationship a failure in the worst light. it's not the likely scenario.
If i am black am i more likely to be a criminal?
If i am Chinese am i likely more to own a dry cleaners?
If I was White would i be more likely to wear shorts when it's 40 degrees outside?
No, no, no.
You do not know the married dude's marriage. you do not know what's going on.
And ever considering their marriage to fail is pessimistic of you and irresponsible of you for someone your age.
I feel sorry for you because based on your posts, you do not know what love is and at this rate will never know what love is.
Love isn't getting physical , it's much more than i can ever explain.
When a man and woman take a vow of marriage, they vow to love each other and take care of each other.
You are just a sexual deviant who do not take into consideration the the wife, the children, and the current relationship of the marriage.
You are hurting the possibility of the marriage progressing, you are helping it to digressing it.
Just for what? so you can get into a married guy's pants. for sexual pleasure.
You are no different from a prostitute on the streets. that's the problem with people who do that because not only they have disrespect for the marriage but they do not have self respect more so, than the marriage.
You are right when you say people are not property, but you fail to realize that some people are monsters, monsters that destroy marriages, destroy families, and destroys their own self respect.

 

[easyroad]

It's not about having the weight of the world on your shoulders, it's about respect. Something that goes (or at least should go) beyond those you know.

Why should it?

If your parents didn't teach you that, then I sure as hell won't. I'm done talking to you.

 

[bankside]

I think what's even less convincing is the idea that basic decency depends on someone being familiar to us.

Some of us even hold the elevator door for strangers, never mind not sleeping with their boyfriends.

 

[Lefty]

Bottom Line...Davey Wavey said it best.

"If this is wrong....I don't want to be right"


BTW, Mitchymo really does love Europeans ..especially the ones from Europe

 

[nurseboy269]

My wife and I have a "open" relationship with rules. We are both bisexual, and she was the one that actually brought up the idea of an open relationship (was a little surprised honestly).

Without an open relationship, or in our case, not following the rules is considered cheating...

 

[stevexxx]

In comparison to the blame deserved by a 3rd party in an affair, i simply take a different view, even if its not the majority view, that alone doesn't make it wrong.


It makes it wrong if you pursue a married guy and seduce him. and try desperately to sleep with the guy.

 

[nurseboy269]

It makes it wrong if you pursue a married guy and seduce him. and try desperately to sleep with the guy.

Agreed, and on the other side....not wrong if the 3rd party is unaware...until said time when they are made aware...continued advances after that point in time are, likewise, wrong.

 

[Lefty]

That is wrong Mitchymo.

In my book,

You always have something worth adding.

 

[stevexxx]

In your view, not in mine. Nothing more for me to add to this thread.

i always win the argument

 

[Lefty]

Move over CharlieXXX. Make room for SteveXXX

We have a new "WINNER"...

 

[Lefty]

My dear friend Mitchy
No need to be bitchy

Steve in the Cago meant
Whenever he pitched a tent

His hand was the winner,
his balls a bit thinner

His prize heaven sent
His lust always spent

So he claims he is straight
Won't swing on your gate

Steve has his point of view
Even as much as do you.

Whilst you both walk the walk
And you both talk the talk

Your English came from the queen
His was strictly Chi town scene

I want you two to get along
Not size up each others dong

You would both could do the best
If you stopped this pissing contest

Making this up was fun
Now sad but I've gotta run
--------------------------------------------
OKAY boys a wise man once sang a song that said
Nobodys right if everybody is wrong.
Now, shake hands and come out fighting....
fighting ignorance and the inability to SHARE points of view.

 

[easyroad]

I think what's even less convincing is the idea that basic decency depends on someone being familiar to us.

Some of us even hold the elevator door for strangers, never mind not sleeping with their boyfriends.

I know, right?

This world is fucked...

 

[stevexxx]

Indeed you do, i always win DEBATES, arguments are for children.

oh this wasn't a debate. this was a creative discussion

 

[asu1117]

Psychological splitting.



Better known as black and white thinking.



A lot of it happens to be going on in this thread. And it really looks like a weak attempt to defend an utter lack of values, manners, and morals.

 

[rjmrjm21]

Is it wrong to cheat on your wife with another dude? i have read some posts here that convey a message of, " oh yea it's okay to go fool around with a married guy or try to" i mean seriously that's fucked up. that could destroy a family think about the wife and the kids. if most people do, i am probably on the wrong site.

I think it depends on the looks of the other man. If he's big and hairy, the wife my think WTF, what are you doing? If the other man is feminine and cute, then wife catches the husband fucking him in the ass, the wife might blow up as if it were another woman.